Would dogs be better off if we hadn't domesticated them? - VeggieBoards
Forum Jump: 
 1Likes
  • 1 Post By Mr. H.
 
Thread Tools
#1 Old 04-08-2018, 06:36 AM
Newbie
 
zombiesprinkles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 36
Would dogs be better off if we hadn't domesticated them?

Dogs make humans happy and improve our quality of life but would it have been in their best interest to not have had the hunting instinct bred out of them?

What do people think?
zombiesprinkles is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 Old 04-08-2018, 10:45 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 4,325
I agree. Seems wrong to have domesticated/bred dogs purely for our human wants.

Lv
leedsveg is offline  
#3 Old 04-09-2018, 09:47 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 292
I could construct an argument either way.
In defense of that statement, you could point out the millions of homeless dogs in cities. or the abused and neglected dogs. or the over bred dogs who suffer from all kinds of health issues.

On the other hand, there are also millions of examples of well taken care of, pampered, privileged dogs. Well fed and sleeping on couches. Or the working dogs who seem to enjoy their jobs.

The others side of the coin is are people better off with dogs. and again there is plenty of evidence to say yes.

I think in a more perfect world we could say that our relationship with dogs was a partnership. With both sides getting more benefits than without the partnership. But people being imperfect seem to have abdicated our responsibilities and taken advantage of the dogs.
Mr. H. is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#4 Old 04-10-2018, 12:40 AM
Beginner
 
Vlady's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 116
Unfortunately , people are making cats to be the same .
Vlady is offline  
#5 Old 04-10-2018, 05:21 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombiesprinkles View Post
Dogs make humans happy and improve our quality of life but would it have been in their best interest to not have had the hunting instinct bred out of them?

What do people think?
Will dogs come from wolves, and it took a long time of selective breeding for their existence.
So in way, its either they are wolves or they wouldn't exist, if we didn't domesticated them.

In all honestly if we didn't domesticate dogs, we probably wouldn't be here today with this modern technology we have today.
TidyLittlePea is offline  
#6 Old 04-11-2018, 01:38 PM
Tom
Veggie Regular
 
Tom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 5,195
I'm not trying to excuse humans from responsibility here, but lately, some have wondered if maybe the domestication was started on both sides, with wolves (the ancestors of dogs) and humans gradually learning to get used to each others' company. I know this is about dogs, but many think that cats became domesticated the same way.

Peasant (1963-1972) and Fluffy (1970s?-1982- I think of you as 'Ambrose' now)- Your spirits outshone some humans I have known. Be happy forever.
Tom is offline  
#7 Old 04-13-2018, 06:53 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom View Post
I'm not trying to excuse humans from responsibility here, but lately, some have wondered if maybe the domestication was started on both sides, with wolves (the ancestors of dogs) and humans gradually learning to get used to each others' company. I know this is about dogs, but many think that cats became domesticated the same way.
A little bit off topic, but there are several new scientific studies, some based on archeology and some on DNA, that sort of point to modern dogs not all having a common wolf ancestor.

Up until recently, it was thought that wolves were first domesticated with the advent of agriculture and towns, maybe 10 or 20 thousand years ago. But some new DNA and archeological finds may change that to 30 or 40 thousand years ago.

there is that tribe of baboons that kidnap feral puppies and raise the dogs to be their own watch/guard dogs. So who knows how long age dog domestication really occurred. Maybe we Can blame it on some distant ancestor.
Mr. H. is offline  
#8 Old 04-13-2018, 08:57 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 87
The studies about dogs and wolves actually show that wolves (gray wolves, specifically) and dogs have a common ancestor and that dogs didn't evolve from wolves. This is similar to humans and apes having a common ancestor, not humans evolving from apes (as too many people still believe).

It makes more sense that dogs and wolves evolved independently. This more sensible explains how humans were able to domesticate dogs so quickly. ("Quickly" in geologic time.)

Would dogs be better off now without past domestication? It's a moot question for me. We can't know the answer; all we can do is speculate. Maybe they wouldn't even be here. Or maybe they'd still be wild and hunted. Or maybe...or maybe... :: I'm not sure the hunting instinct is gone from all dogs. I do tend to agree, though, that it was a mutual thing (the evolution-wolf thing aside), in that it probably benefitted them and us.

This question always makes me think of other species we've domesticated. What about cows (Aurochs, originally)? Horses? Camels? Etc., etc., etc.

I also think this issue leads to questions related to spirituality (not religion) and metaphysics. I make part of my living as an interspecies communicator ("animal communicator"), and I'm aware of what many domesticated nonhuman animals think and feel. (And make no mistake -- they think and feel in astonishingly intellectual and emotional ways that are often beyond the ability of us humans to understand.)
Citrus333 is offline  
#9 Old 04-13-2018, 09:23 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 292
I did a quick check of some internet articles and it seems that RNA and DNA evidence, an extinct wolf species is the common ancestor of all dogs.

https://breedingbusiness.com/origin-...-domestic-dog/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin...e_domestic_dog
Tom likes this.
Mr. H. is offline  
#10 Old 04-14-2018, 11:12 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 87
Not exactly, Mr. H. What even the Wikipedia entry states is, "[...] dogs may have descended from a now extinct species of canid whose closest living relative was the wolf." This is different from "an extinct wolf species". Our (humans) closest living relatives are the chimpanzee and bonobo, but we are of different species. But I think we agree on the bottom line...that dogs did not evolve from modern wolves, but from a now-extinct ancestor of both wolves and dogs.
Citrus333 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the VeggieBoards forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in


Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off