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Is keeping Pets Ethical?

9K views 61 replies 30 participants last post by  silva 
#1 ·
I've been running this through my mind for some time now. And I can't help but wonder, is keeping carnivorous pets ethical?
It's not ethical to kill animals for human consumption, so why would it be for animal consumption.
I myself am a Fruitarian/Raw Vegan, and I keep carnivorous animals. I have two cats which are fed their natural diet, raw meat. I also keep reptiles, which are fed their natural diet, whole mice and rats.
I see all the time people converting say a dog to a vegan diet, I don't support that being dogs really do need meat, and aren't designed to eat a whole lot of plant matter. Yes they are omnivorous, but are primarily carnivores. Cats on the other hand, are obligate carnivores and cannot eat plant matter. Same with my snakes.
It isn't okay to kill animals for humans to eat, and if we lived in a world where all humans became what they should be, Vegan, what would we do to care for our pets?
Converting them to vegans isn't an option. And if we only kept herbivores pipe bunnies as pets, what would happen to all the domestic dogs, cats, reptiles and other exotics?
Any thought or ideas about this will help, I can't help but wonder about this. As most of the pet food comes from farm leftovers, and mice and rats in the reptile world are bred in the same way as industrial farms for cattle and ect.
 
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#52 ·
I think some of people should learn the difference between a puppy mill and a devoted reputable registered breeder whose aim is to improve the breed. ie fix problems in the breed like the German Shepherd Association has an elbow and hip program. Like, in Germany and Austria the GSD registered breeders don't breed from a dog that has not passed at least level 1 of Schutshund , like here the dog has to pass a test for elbows, knees, agility,etc but most of all temperament.

A dog or a cat does not need a pedigree to be a devoted companion I am just trying to point out that not all breeding kennels are puppy mills. All puppy mills should be closed and their owners gaoled but not all breeders are bad.

My closest companion( other than my husband) my dearest, most trustworthy, loving and constant friend, my German Shepherd, died today. Not my pet nor my child substitute but my friend and companion. I am heart broken.

I have a genetic illness that is killing me bit by bit by putting holes in my white matter (white part of the brain) so I never go out alone any more but I have had companionship at home and on short walks because my GSD was either with me or if he was outside playing he would come and check on me at least every 15 mins .

Would some of you really wipe out the chance for some people, many of who don't have much mobility, to have the companionship and friendship they have from their companion animals.

Cats and dogs chose to be with humans thousands of years ago. Now those that do suffer ,suffer because of human arrogance and greed and hardheartedness.

If you don't want anymore pets then just stop calling them pets. I've don't think we've ever used the term - expect maybe for the huntsman that lives on the kitchen window- jokingly referred to as "our pet spider"
 
#53 ·
I'm sorry for your loss. Losing a close companion is never easy, and it sounds like that German Sheppard was a very good friend to you.

But back on topic, when we talk about eventually cutting down breeding to the point of no animals being available for adoption, we really are just talking about theoretical long term. I think we're all in agreement that too many animals are bred as pets, and it'll take decades, at least, to cut out the puppy mills and reduce the numbers that end up in shelters. What happens beyond that point is just theoretical, and probably won't happen in our lifetime. In the mean time, I would assume that we all agree on what changes we should be shooting for in the near term.

--Fromper
:juggle:
 
#54 ·
They don't like having their reproductive organs ripped out and being called by human names and eating slaughtered meat that has been compressed into dry kibble from off of our kitchen floors and dogs don't like being tugged around by the neck at the park. It is impossible to keep a nonhuman animal captive in your home without also supporting the pet industry so I can see a valid argument to be made on the other side of it being considered acceptable as long as it's rescue.

I've noticed that a lot of people (I'm not necessarily talking about posters here) act like they think it's *cool* to say they prefer animals to people. Well, of course they do. It is much easier to have a relationship with a being who doesn't talk back and who you don't have to argue with and where you get to just be the boss. Humans love it but the animals don't.
 
#55 ·
They don't like having their reproductive organs ripped out and being called by human names and eating slaughtered meat that has been compressed into dry kibble from off of our kitchen floors and dogs don't like being tugged around by the neck at the park. It is impossible to keep a nonhuman animal captive in your home without also supporting the pet industry so I can see a valid argument to be made on the other side of it being considered acceptable as long as it's rescue.

I've noticed that a lot of people (I'm not necessarily talking about posters here) act like they think it's *cool* to say they prefer animals to people. Well, of course they do. It is much easier to have a relationship with a being who doesn't talk back and who you don't have to argue with and where you get to just be the boss. Humans love it but the animals don't.
Good points. Propose a solution.
 
#58 ·
Silva what do you mean about fighting for indoor only laws? Are you saying it should be illegal to take a cat (or any pet) outside, even on a leash? Or do you mean it should be illegal to take them off the leash in an urban areas (except perhaps in designated areas like a park of section of a park). Or just illegal to let them roam in general on their own? Would you indoor only laws apply only to urban areas, or everywhere?

I found the below article. I am not sure if you would broadly agree with it.

http://www.calvinspaws.com/info/file?file=18081.pdf
 
#59 ·
That link is exactly right! I will however concede to knowing the US. I do have to say the UK seems quite different, so I limit my thoughts to the USA.
As to walking on a leash, or in quarentined area, of course I'm ok with that! I tried a leash on 3 of mine and they didn't care for it, actually wanted back inside.
The dangers far outway any good. There are outdoor cats around me that are fixed, fed and given places to shelter (hopefully). Sometimes that's the best we can do.
If you ever work in a rescue I can't imagine not feeling this way.
Cats are legally property so you risk getting sued if you trap a cat to have them altered. Peoples cats get pregnant and kittens put in rescues. Worse, male cats travel miles getting ferals preganant
 
#60 ·
The article makes some good points but on the other hand it seems unfair to not allow animals to roam, it's like a form of captivity in a way. We in our family let pets roam outside. It seems really unfair not to do so otherwise. The ones we have had have pent up energy in the house it's obvious they need to be outside. Our situation is a bit different, since we live in the country. I think the ideal situation is a house with a garden at the back and a forest at the back of them with no dangers around. In that situation, it's easier to say it's ethical to live with an animal. In an urban environment however, trapping an animal at home or walking around with on the leash seems somewhat dubious and arguably even runs contradictary to vegan values. I saw these comics/images once and what they had done was reversed the roles of humans and animals to illustrate animal suffering, for example showing pigs operating a slaughterhouse and humans going to the slaughter. Pets were included, for example they had a picture of a dog with a human on a leash and the human doing poop on the floor outside.

Not letting animals roam free feels wrong, but opening the door to your city house and letting your pet wander off into the city traffic doesn't feel right either. I think in general I am skeptical about pets in cities, but can I really criticise someone in a city that adopted a stray that was already in a city, assuming the animal in effect chose to move into the house and had a better situation. I am not so sure about that, I wonder whether something has gone wrong with our society in a way when children and animals can't roam free, only human animals. But perhaps the issue here of whether to let animals roam has really been created by breeding for pets in the first place, that's the issue that's need to stop.

I don't like the idea of pets personally, the reason we have pets is because my wife and daughter wanted it, it would not have been my choice.
 
#61 ·
Rambling a bit there. The other thing I think some of you might be interested in is the epidemic of strays in Chile. It is much worse than other countries I have lived in or visited. It is so bad that you cannot really go out for a jog or cycle in many places without getting yapped out. I have had dogs yapping at my heels constantly, very occassionally there are 4 or 5 of them and it is a bit scary, I have been bitten 2 or 3 times, but just little nips never properly trying to bite me really, these "bites" don't even break the skin, or not much, they are not using the teeth. Now I think about it, aggressive dogs I haven't had so much lately, maybe I was unlucky in the past.

Dogs are great bluffers. They bark like hell chasing me and then I stop dead and turn around at look at them and that shuts them up. If I feel in danger I occassionally shout at them or charge at them they usually back down. There was one once that just blocked the road stood right in the middle (on a country lane) and didn't give the impression that the charging would be wise, he looked really fierce, and it was a dead end and a fairly private road, so I turned around and chose another route. My previous house it made my really uncomfortable when I used to go jogging just before 7am because I thought I would wake people up.

It's true what they say about dogs, their bark is worse than their bite. I've noticed that the worse barkers tend to be the ones with houses. I sometimes wonder if they are defending their situation and overall the impression I get is that having an owner (or human friend) is generally a preferred situation for a dog. The strays are more meek and often follow me around whereas the ones out front of a property seem to defend that territory. The strays sometimes followed me for hours when I was hill walking. One or two tried to get in the car at the end. I think they are just lonely and want a home.

I am not so sure about cats but I think they are more feral and it depends on their mood or their personality. Our current cat when she is in the house she always looking to get out, and when she is out she always seems to be looking to get in.

One of our cats used to bring me dead mice and other animals and once even a rabbit and leave them at the front of my office door, always precisely in the middle in front of the door, which left no doubt that it was meant as an offering. I had no idea how to stop this. The only thing I could think of was to try shouting at her and ignoring her whenever she used to do it.

In our last house the kids would not play outside the house because there were loose dogs there all the time so they would just get scared and refuse to play outside. The current place is different because it is a closed, gated, private "condominio" and they have a rule against dogs as as soon as one get loose (which is often) someone sends a WhatsApp photo of the dog to try and shame the owners into chasing it down.

We have had three pets here. The way it works here is that cats have kittens etc and they get offered for free to any takers. I don't like this either because I wonder if that is cruel to separate mothers and babies. But the alternative is to live with a multitide of cats, or neuter of animals, neither of which appeals to me, and such uncomfortable choices makes me again question the wisdom of having pets. Our (small) dog, Lucas, ran off when I opened the garden gate briefly. We never saw him again. I honestly don't know whether something happened to him or he just wanted out. One of the cats we still have, the other disappeared after being allowed to roam. It's possible a dog got her.

It is a cruel world out there. I've often swerved to avoid hitting dogs while out driving. Some are pretty careless. They cross all the roads except the motorways. I have also seen dead dogs by the side of the road a handful of times and even seen two hit by a car just metres away from me. I think both of these were fatal, I know one was because I went back to check. I have dragged dead animals out of the road a few times when out cycling. You leave them by the side of the road and I don't know what happens to them then but the next time you pass by the road they are gone.
 
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