): [Hamsters can't live together, one has to be rehomed] - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 10-08-2010, 07:46 AM
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So just last night I got two absolutely adorable, long-haired, female Syrian hamsters (Cuddles and Nibbles <3) from the PetCo and only today did I find out that you can't even house them together after they reach maturity or else they will end up fighting each other to the death. Why don't pet stores tell people important information like this because you buy them? ): I really don't want to have to return them to the pet store so I am giving one of them to my friend who has had hamsters before and knows how to properly take care them. Poo.

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#2 Old 10-08-2010, 08:08 AM
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I thought only males fought each other?

Yeah, hamsters are not as cute and cuddly as you would believe. I used to work at a major chain pet store, and I saw way to much hamster cannibalism
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#3 Old 10-08-2010, 08:55 AM
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I thought only males fought each other?

Yeah, hamsters are not as cute and cuddly as you would believe. I used to work at a major chain pet store, and I saw way to much hamster cannibalism

How much cannibalism? To-oooooo much cannibalism.

Rats will fight if they are not of the same bloodline/family. I had 50 once, and I bought a few from a store (a gray one!) and tried to introduce them to the other rats, but they wouldn't have it. The three foreigners had to live in their own cage and they didn't like each other either. I only witnessed cannibalism under extreme stress.

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#4 Old 10-08-2010, 09:00 AM
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Yeah, you usually can't house them together, they will fight Never once has a pet shop warned me though when buying them, they really should it's pretty daft of them to not mention it.

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#5 Old 10-08-2010, 09:31 AM
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How much cannibalism? To-oooooo much cannibalism.

Rats will fight if they are not of the same bloodline/family. I had 50 once, and I bought a few from a store (a gray one!) and tried to introduce them to the other rats, but they wouldn't have it. The three foreigners had to live in their own cage and they didn't like each other either. I only witnessed cannibalism under extreme stress.

I used to have two rats named Pippin and Merry. Merry was kind of a bully and I think he was eating all the food. Well, Merry ended up getting out of the cage and hiding for two weeks...I finally got him and put him back in the cage, but I guess Pippin liked the time he had alone and not being bullied. I guess they got into a fight and Pippin ended up killing Merry and then had started to eat him. ): After Merry died Pippin quickly gained soo much weight.

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#6 Old 10-08-2010, 09:38 AM
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It's best to avoid pet stores if you can, but I know how tough that can be. I'm sorry to hear that you had to re-home your hammy but it sounds like you did a good thing. You could make up a caresheet and take it back to the pet store. Maybe they'll hand it out with the hammies that they sell. If not at least they have the proper information, then it's up to them what to do with it.

Are you going to post pics of your new furry friend in the pet forum? Hammies are very sweet and cute when cared for properly!

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#7 Old 10-08-2010, 09:40 AM
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It's best to avoid pet stores if you can, but I know how tough that can be. I'm sorry to hear that you had to re-home your hammy but it sounds like you did a good thing. You could make up a caresheet and take it back to the pet store. Maybe they'll hand it out with the hammies that they sell. If not at least they have the proper information, then it's up to them what to do with it.

Are you going to post pics of your new furry friend in the pet forum? Hammies are very sweet and cute when cared for properly!

Haha, I probably will end up posting pictures of them, but right now I want them to get more used to me and their surroundings before I take them out of their cages and take their photos. xD

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#8 Old 10-08-2010, 09:56 AM
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I only had one Syrian hamster once. I'd gotten him from the local animal shelter and had read up on rodent pets beforehand, so I knew they were mostly solitary.

However, I've read that dwarf hamsters are a different species and like the companionship of their own kind. Even so, you have to be VERY careful introducing two individuals who don't know each other. Like Exitof99's rats, they might not like strangers.

Don't feel badly if you decide to return one to the pet store.

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#9 Old 10-08-2010, 10:20 AM
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Why don't pet stores tell people important information like this [before] you buy them?

Because they don't know, they're only interested in making the sale, they don't care, or some combination. Why didn't you do any research before buying another living being and taking responsibility for the rest of their lives? What if your friend gets bored of the hamster or gives her to someone who treats her badly? Or puts her with a male and lots of babies are born. What responsibility do you bear for the rest of their lives and any offspring they may have?

Watch some video of the hamster supplier to PETCO bashing hamsters against a table to kill them
http://www.examiner.com/animal-welfa...smart-supplier

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These investigations show that animals bought from companies like PETCO and PetSmart suffer painful injuries, rough handling and unacceptable treatment before ending up in store windows for sale.

That's what you contributed to.

Are there any humane societies in your area? In San Francisco, hamsters are the number one animal killed in shelters. Maybe you could have adopted one off of Craigslist or one that was going to be killed in a shelter instead of buying one.

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Hamsters are the No. 1 animal euthanized at the city's shelter, said San Francisco Animal Care and Control director Rebecca Katz. "It's definitely a concern," she said. "They're an impulse buy, and we do sometimes get tons of them, especially babies."

http://articles.sfgate.com/2010-07-0...store-hamsters


You just bought other living beings the same way that people buy office supplies. You contributed to the whole business of commodification of sentient beings, and that's a problem (for them).
http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/pets/

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#10 Old 10-08-2010, 10:26 AM
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Because they don't know, they're only interested in making the sale, they don't care, or some combination. Why didn't you do any research before buying another living being and taking responsibility for the rest of their lives? What if your friend gets bored of the hamster or gives her to someone who treats her badly? Or puts her with a male and lots of babies are born. What responsibility do you bear for the rest of their lives and any offspring they may have?

Watch some video of the hamster supplier to PETCO bashing hamsters against a table to kill them
http://www.examiner.com/animal-welfa...smart-supplier

That's what you contributed to.

Are there any humane societies in your area? In San Francisco, hamsters are the number one animal killed in shelters. Maybe you could have adopted one off of Craigslist or one that was going to be killed in a shelter instead of buying one.

http://articles.sfgate.com/2010-07-0...store-hamsters


You just bought other living beings the same way that people buy office supplies. You contributed to the whole business of commodification of sentient beings, and that's a problem (for them).
http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/pets/

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#11 Old 10-08-2010, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Irizary View Post

Because they don't know, they're only interested in making the sale, they don't care, or some combination. Why didn't you do any research before buying another living being and taking responsibility for the rest of their lives? What if your friend gets bored of the hamster or gives her to someone who treats her badly? Or puts her with a male and lots of babies are born. What responsibility do you bear for the rest of their lives and any offspring they may have?

Watch some video of the hamster supplier to PETCO bashing hamsters against a table to kill them
http://www.examiner.com/animal-welfa...smart-supplier

That's what you contributed to.

Are there any humane societies in your area? In San Francisco, hamsters are the number one animal killed in shelters. Maybe you could have adopted one off of Craigslist or one that was going to be killed in a shelter instead of buying one.

http://articles.sfgate.com/2010-07-0...store-hamsters


You just bought other living beings the same way that people buy office supplies. You contributed to the whole business of commodification of sentient beings, and that's a problem (for them).
http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/pets/

Excuse me, I think I know MY friend very well. She loves animals a lot and is one of the most gentil and caring people I've met. AND LIKE I SAID, she has had hamsters before and knows how to take care of them.

Petfinder.com said there weren't any adoptable hammies in Richmond.

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#12 Old 10-08-2010, 11:10 AM
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Petfinder.com said there weren't any adoptable hammies in Richmond.

I just looked on Craigslist for Richmond. There's a free hamster.

There are always other alternatives than buying. Unless you feel you've got to have the animal right now! (like an impulse purchase)

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No, I meant it to be public and to be very clear, because many people will be defensive about their actions and refuse to consider them. So with the strong possibility that you would not be willing to re-consider your behavior, at least other people can read an honest response. [See, another person might have said, "Darn! I didn't even consider that. That's terrible what can happen at the supplier's. I'm embarrassed that I didn't adopt one instead. I won't do that again." Instead you went on the defensive/offensive and made it about your sensitivity and wants instead of the animals]. Maybe you'll think about it for next time. But I'm not going to sugar coat it - it's not about you or me, it's about these innocent little creatures who are treated like commodities and generally fare very poorly because of it.

We're also on a veg board, not a general interest board.

But tell me - if you don't like my behavior, how would you use that to justify hurting animals? If you know that animals suffer terribly for the food industry, how will you shift responsibility from your own or others' actions towards those animals onto me?

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#13 Old 10-08-2010, 11:18 AM
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I just looked on Craigslist for Richmond. There's a free hamster.

There are always other alternatives than buying. Unless you feel you've got to have the animal right now! (like an impulse purchase)

No, I meant it to be public and to be very clear, because many people will be defensive about their actions and refuse to consider them. So with the strong possibility that you would not be willing to re-consider your behavior, at least other people can read an honest response. [See, another person might have said, "Darn! I didn't even consider that. That's terrible what can happen at the supplier's. I'm embarrassed that I didn't adopt one instead. I won't do that again." Instead you went on the defensive/offensive and made it about your sensitivity and wants instead of the animals]. Maybe you'll think about it for next time. But I'm not going to sugar coat it - it's not about you or me, it's about these innocent little creatures who are treated like commodities and generally fare very poorly because of it.

We're also on a veg board, not a general interest board.

But tell me - if you don't like my behavior, how would you use that to justify hurting animals? If you know that animals suffer terribly for the food industry, how will you shift responsibility from your own or others' actions towards those animals onto me?

There was absolutely no point in making it public, no matter what you say. If you had approached the subject differently, then I would have certainly reacted differently. Of course I am going to get defensive when I feel another person has knowingly tried to embarass me in public. That generally makes people defensive, no matter what you are trying to correct them on. No one likes being chewed out in front of other people.

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#14 Old 10-08-2010, 11:30 AM
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That's fine. Maybe if you had ever seen a clear and truthful response about buying from pet stores before you did, you might have behaved differently this time. It needs to be public, and it is a condemnation of that behavior, and rightfully so. Anyone lurking needs to see that.

Re. having behavior pointed out "publicly" (although come on - we're anonymous), there are other ways to respond than defensively. Like: "Oops. I hadn't considered that. I wouldn't do that again." If you feel that way.

I'm NOT saying you are a terrible person, not at all, it's not about you. But I think it is very wrong to purchase animals from pet stores, and I gave you links showing why.

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#15 Old 10-08-2010, 11:41 AM
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I expect you didn't know semasahin, but Petco is a horrible place for animals. They prefer to kill the animals they sell if they become sick because it isn't profitable to treat them. And that is also why no pet store will tell you anything about the animals you are there to purchase. All they care about is the sale. I won't buy anything from a store that sells live animals for these reasons. I don't want to support it in any way.

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#16 Old 10-08-2010, 11:43 AM
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That's fine. Maybe if you had ever seen a clear and truthful response about buying from pet stores before you did, you might have behaved differently this time. It needs to be public, and it is a condemnation of that behavior, and rightfully so. Anyone lurking needs to see that.

Re. having behavior pointed out "publicly" (although come on - we're anonymous), there are other ways to respond than defensively. Like: "Oops. I hadn't considered that. I wouldn't do that again." If you feel that way.

I'm NOT saying you are a terrible person, not at all, it's not about you. But I think it is very wrong to purchase animals from pet stores, and I gave you links showing why.

To be completely honest, I did not even think about or even look at the information you presented to me because I was just very taken aback by what I perceived as a personal attack on my character. If a person feels offended or insulted or whatever, they are not going to focus on the facts presented immediately, only on the emotions.

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#17 Old 10-08-2010, 11:50 AM
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I expect you didn't know semasahin, but Petco is a horrible place for animals. They prefer to kill the animals they sell if they become sick because it isn't profitable to treat them. And that is also why no pet store will tell you anything about the animals you are there to purchase. All they care about is the sale. I won't buy anything from a store that sells live animals for these reasons. I don't want to support it in any way.

Honestly, I had heard that pet stores can be negligent in their care of the animals, but I never thought they would purposely abuse animals or right out kill them. Maybe I'm a bit naive, but I go in there and I know some of the people that work there and I know that they are really nice people who truly love animals a lot so I don't think of things like that.

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#18 Old 10-08-2010, 01:13 PM
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Honestly, I had heard that pet stores can be negligent in their care of the animals, but I never thought they would purposely abuse animals or right out kill them. Maybe I'm a bit naive, but I go in there and I know some of the people that work there and I know that they are really nice people who truly love animals a lot so I don't think of things like that.

Even if the pet store is not actually killing the animals in store they are absolutely contributing to death of other companion animals. Each pet purchased at a pet store means there is one less home available for a pet in a rescue or shelter. That means one more animal euthanized for simply being homeless, this is particularly true in the case of rodents. They are often purchased on impulse with no thought going into the time and money that they will take.

Please find a pet supply store in your area that does not sell animals. A store that sell living, sentient creatures should never be supported. The very least everyone can do is to avoid spending any money at these stores. Supplies can be found at many places, or ordered online.
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#19 Old 10-08-2010, 01:52 PM
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Why don't pet stores tell people important information like this because you buy them? ):

This thread reminds me of this thread: https://www.veggieboards.com/newvb/sh...-Carnival-Fish...

Echoing much of what was already posted. You're in VA, right? I spent a little time searching for stores that carry hamster supplies but not animals, and I'm not having any luck. On Craigslist you can find timothy hay, but they're sold by bales (anywhere from 30-50lbs, usually) and there is no way on Earth that a hamster will eat that much hay. I don't really remember my hamsters ever touching the stuff back when I had them (other than using it for bedding). My goos and buns, on the other hand, om nom nom nom nom.
As for hamster food, stay FAR AWAY from anything that's only seeds (the Kaytee brand, and I think some others. Not sure. It's been a long time.) and pretty much anything with the rainbow contained inside the bag. Not healthy in the slightest. It's just colored to appeal to the human eye. Stick with pellets, a few seeds (sunflower, pumpkin, etc) a day, fresh fruit and vegetables (be careful with watery ones), and feed treats on occasion. My friend, who is on VB, is very knowledgeable about hamsters, and I'll see if she is able to get on and visit this thread to help you with your new companion. The damage is done, so might as well make sure that hamham is as happy and healthy as possible.

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#20 Old 10-08-2010, 02:10 PM
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You're in VA, right? I spent a little time searching for stores that carry hamster supplies but not animals, and I'm not having any luck. On Craigslist you can find timothy hay, but they're sold by bales (anywhere from 30-50lbs, usually) and there is no way on Earth that a hamster will eat that much hay.

You can get Timothy Hay and other supplies on Amazon (with free shipping for a couple bags, depending on the supplier; of course one wants to do a little checking that the supplier is a supplies dealer and not an animal dealer).

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#21 Old 10-08-2010, 02:17 PM
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You can get Timothy Hay and other supplies on Amazon (with free shipping for a couple bags, depending on the supplier; of course one wants to do a little checking that the supplier is a supplies dealer and not an animal dealer).

I never realized that companion animal food/hay were sold on Amazon! I suppose that's a given, but I never searched or saw them before, only animal toys/homes and non-animal related items. Learn something new everyday.

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#22 Old 10-08-2010, 03:26 PM
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This thread reminds me of this thread: https://www.veggieboards.com/newvb/sh...-Carnival-Fish...

Echoing much of what was already posted. You're in VA, right? I spent a little time searching for stores that carry hamster supplies but not animals, and I'm not having any luck. On Craigslist you can find timothy hay, but they're sold by bales (anywhere from 30-50lbs, usually) and there is no way on Earth that a hamster will eat that much hay. I don't really remember my hamsters ever touching the stuff back when I had them (other than using it for bedding). My goos and buns, on the other hand, om nom nom nom nom.
As for hamster food, stay FAR AWAY from anything that's only seeds (the Kaytee brand, and I think some others. Not sure. It's been a long time.) and pretty much anything with the rainbow contained inside the bag. Not healthy in the slightest. It's just colored to appeal to the human eye. Stick with pellets, a few seeds (sunflower, pumpkin, etc) a day, fresh fruit and vegetables (be careful with watery ones), and feed treats on occasion. My friend, who is on VB, is very knowledgeable about hamsters, and I'll see if she is able to get on and visit this thread to help you with your new companion. The damage is done, so might as well make sure that hamham is as happy and healthy as possible.

Why do they sell it if it is so unhealthy for them? I mean, does the healthier food cost more to make or something...?

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#23 Old 10-08-2010, 03:38 PM
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I can't speak to the specifics of hamster food, but there is a lot of food sold for pets that is not optimal for them. Like, many varieties of canned cat food have too much sodium, artificial colors and flavors, unspecified "meat" by-products, high in corn and other non optimal grains, etc. They're cheap to produce, highly flavored so the animal will eat them, highly colored so the human might appreciate them, but not wholesome food.

Likewise, Twinkies, sugar breakfast cereals, and hot dogs are mostly marketed to children, but that's not really good food for them.

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#24 Old 10-08-2010, 04:10 PM
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Why do they sell it if it is so unhealthy for them? I mean, does the healthier food cost more to make or something...?

Pretty much what Irizary said. It's cheap cheap cheap to produce. They're often nutritionally defunct, full of fillers, have ingredients that are difficult to track a source, and can contain potentially deadly products. They color them to catch people's eye, and since it looks so pretty, people will buy it and feed it to their animals. Companies in general do not care about the health and safety of the animals they aim to sell products to. They only care about money, and make big bucks from it. For example death balls. Even many cages marketed towards small animals are safety hazards, not to mention certain bedding.

Here is a fairly recent post over on a hamster forum: http://www.hamstercentral.com/commun...orti-diet.html
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Kaytee products also contain preservatives... One in particular called ethyoxyquin that has been linked to cancer in small animals.


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#25 Old 10-08-2010, 06:20 PM
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Pretty much what Irizary said. It's cheap cheap cheap to produce. They're often nutritionally defunct, full of fillers, have ingredients that are difficult to track a source, and can contain potentially deadly products. They color them to catch people's eye, and since it looks so pretty, people will buy it and feed it to their animals. Companies in general do not care about the health and safety of the animals they aim to sell products to. They only care about money, and make big bucks from it. For example death balls. Even many cages marketed towards small animals are safety hazards, not to mention certain bedding.

Here is a fairly recent post over on a hamster forum: http://www.hamstercentral.com/commun...orti-diet.html

What is the best food brand for small animals then?

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#26 Old 10-08-2010, 07:29 PM
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My exotics vet has started recommending Healthy Handfuls by Oxbow for the hamsters and gerbils he sees. I really love Oxbow in general, I can't imagine feeding any other food to any of the exotics I've had. Any vet clinic should be able to order the food in for you, major vet suppliers stock it. You can also order it online.
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#27 Old 10-08-2010, 07:30 PM
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My exotics vet has started recommending Healthy Handfuls by Oxbow for the hamsters and gerbils he sees. I really love Oxbow in general, I can't imagine feeding any other food to any of the exotics I've had. Any vet clinic should be able to order the food in for you, major vet suppliers stock it. You can also order it online.

Okay, cool.

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#28 Old 10-08-2010, 07:53 PM
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I can't speak to the specifics of hamster food, but there is a lot of food sold for pets that is not optimal for them. Like, many varieties of canned cat food have too much sodium, artificial colors and flavors, unspecified "meat" by-products, high in corn and other non optimal grains, etc. They're cheap to produce, highly flavored so the animal will eat them, highly colored so the human might appreciate them, but not wholesome food.

Possibly off topic and also possibly a stupid question, but just how do you figure out the optimum food for a pet? I make some food, but also buy various brands and types, and when I asked my vet for a recommendation, he just gave me the names of the big brands (which of course I already knew) and said those foods should do. How do you know that certain specific brands have too much sodium for a cat, for example?

"Somewhere along the way, someone is going to tell you, 'There is no "I" in team.' What you should tell them is, 'Maybe not. But there is an "I" in independence, individuality and integrity." Â George Carlin
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#29 Old 10-08-2010, 08:17 PM
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semashin, i hope you enjoy many years with your hamster, and i admire you for taking steps to keep both of them safe when you found out they could not live well together. probably if i were you, i would also have been offended by irizary's post, its stark truth so shocking to read after the happiness of bringing home two new pets and the stress of finding a new home for one of them. i also had a similar experience when we got our dog.

i know now there is a huge non-profit organization that places (often abandoned!) dogs that really need homes, and i also now know that dogs in immediate need of new homes are available even close by our home and can be found through the neighborhood vets and even the bulletin board at the local pet store. but at the time we decided to get a dog, we bought a bunch of books and it seemed logical to get one from the pet store. so that's what we did. it was only after we had a dog in our house that we started meeting animal lovers who educated me/us on what happens in pet stores, and how they get their pets. (this was 16 years ago, when internet was not all that popular, and when dogs in japan also were generally thought of differently than they are now, many relegated outside, fed scraps, etc.) i also met someone who used to work in a pet store we frequented, and it was pretty horrible and sad to hear her stories.

i am much more aware now than i was in those days, because i've been thinking about it a lot. when i go into a shop that has pets, my eyes beeline to the puppy who is standing on a wire cage bottom (so the pee and poop fall easily below and it's easier to clean, i guess), his feet so tiny he can't steady himself and the legs keep falling through. i wouldn't have seen that in the old days. i'd probably have just looked at how cute he was and wished to take him home. now that i know what happens to him when people aren't looking, and if nobody buys him before his "expiration date," it's a whole new experience walking into a pet store. very, very sickening.

i wish there was more awareness about what goes on in pet stores. it is really hard to resist a cute animal when you're in close proximity. i had never heard of puppy mills then. or even thought about what happens to sick potential pets and potential pets that don't sell. although it is hard to second guess my past self, i am pretty sure it would have made a difference for me if i'd known at the time what i have learned.

but that first dog we bought is 16 now, which is quite old for a lab, and she's still kicking. i feel so lucky for having her in our lives, and i wish you the same happiness with your hamster.

"Somewhere along the way, someone is going to tell you, 'There is no "I" in team.' What you should tell them is, 'Maybe not. But there is an "I" in independence, individuality and integrity." Â George Carlin
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#30 Old 10-08-2010, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by semasahin View Post

To be completely honest, I did not even think about or even look at the information you presented to me because I was just very taken aback by what I perceived as a personal attack on my character. If a person feels offended or insulted or whatever, they are not going to focus on the facts presented immediately, only on the emotions.

I've been reading this thread and perhaps you are being too sensitive. I certainly have had my buttons pushed in the past. I don't see Irizary trying to make you look bad. Perhaps what was said hit you unexpectedly and shocked you.

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