Wis-Owner Arrested After Dog Freezes To Sidewalk - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 12-06-2008, 03:22 PM
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#2 Old 12-06-2008, 07:06 PM
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“I've never seen a dog actually frozen to a sidewalk before.”



What, really?!
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#3 Old 12-06-2008, 07:09 PM
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poor guy. i hope they can start to get his weight under control, too.
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#4 Old 12-06-2008, 07:11 PM
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how on earth could someone let a dog get 50lb overweight and in such a mess that it couldn't stand up?
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#5 Old 12-06-2008, 07:37 PM
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what the **** is wrong with people!?
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#6 Old 12-07-2008, 09:35 AM
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God, she needs to be locked up, or better yet lets stick her to a cold side walk.
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#7 Old 12-07-2008, 10:08 AM
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Locking her up is a waste of taxpayer's money.



Assuming the details are correct and this is a woman of sound mind, I'd suggest a complete ban on pet ownership for the rest of her life and many hours of community service. While it would be a fitting punishment to have her community service in an animal shelter, she shouldn't be trusted around animals.
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#8 Old 12-07-2008, 10:25 AM
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Why shouldnt she be locked up? If she did it to a human kid would you just say to give her community service?
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#9 Old 12-07-2008, 10:27 AM
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“I tried to help (the owner) with it on Wednesday night, but I got bit by it so I left it alone. She had other people coming to help and everybody did make an effort, you know it's not that it was total neglect on her fault,” he said.



There was an ongoing effort to help the dog, ya know.

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#10 Old 12-07-2008, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by animallover7249 View Post

Why shouldnt she be locked up? If she did it to a human kid would you just say to give her community service?



Prisons cost resources and those resources must come from somewhere else.



Community service is cheaper.



While the punishment should fit the crime, every dollar that is spent on prisons is a dollar that could be spent someplace else. So we must ask ourselves, "what advantage does prison have in this situation and is it worth the cost?"



As for children, if she did it to a human child out of neglect, it should be obvious that terms of her punishment will include not being around children, and no adult should let their children near her unsupervised. Since the risk of further children being injured is slight, I'd argue that the increased cost of incarceration is not the best use of the public's resources. So I'd argue for community service as well.
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#11 Old 12-07-2008, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by das_nut View Post

Prisons cost resources and those resources must come from somewhere else.



Community service is cheaper.



While the punishment should fit the crime, every dollar that is spent on prisons is a dollar that could be spent someplace else. So we must ask ourselves, "what advantage does prison have in this situation and is it worth the cost?"



As for children, if she did it to a human child out of neglect, it should be obvious that terms of her punishment will include not being around children, and no adult should let their children near her unsupervised. Since the risk of further children being injured is slight, I'd argue that the increased cost of incarceration is not the best use of the public's resources. So I'd argue for community service as well.

I'm glad that you would say the same thing if it was a human.
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#12 Old 12-07-2008, 11:50 AM
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Considering how underfunded social programs are in the US, I'd rather not have the need for increased prison spending just so I can satisfy my anger at an animal or child being hurt.



It is counterproductive.



Prison should be for high-risk offenders or as punishment, low-risk offenderswho fail in serving an alternative sentence, and repeat low-risk offenders (for example, someone who repeated commits a non-violent crime and does not seem deterred by non-prison punishments).
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#13 Old 12-07-2008, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by das_nut View Post

Prisons cost resources and those resources must come from somewhere else.



Community service is cheaper.



While the punishment should fit the crime, every dollar that is spent on prisons is a dollar that could be spent someplace else. So we must ask ourselves, "what advantage does prison have in this situation and is it worth the cost?"



As for children, if she did it to a human child out of neglect, it should be obvious that terms of her punishment will include not being around children, and no adult should let their children near her unsupervised. Since the risk of further children being injured is slight, I'd argue that the increased cost of incarceration is not the best use of the public's resources. So I'd argue for community service as well.

What about creating an incentive system to prevent the abuse in the first place? Serious crimes create costs for society also. If it's a child, that child will probably develop diabetes, have serious psychological issues, and probably have trust issues as well, which will make integration with society more difficult and create ongoing costs of therapy, not to mention the actual damage done to the child->adult in the process, the costs of actually intervening and righting the situation, and the non-utilitarian damages to him and his life. Prevention by giving appropriate punishment to such offenders will prevent these costs from ever being incurred in the first place.



You also have to remember that living in a relatively just and crime/negligence-free society is a benefit in itself, one that people gladly will pay for if given the choice. It is psychological, and generally the sort of utilitarian approach that you are taking ignores such things, despite the fact that they are obviously just as important as underlying material circumstances for the average human.



I don't want to comment so much on the overweight thing - I don't want the state getting that involved. But in combination with the freezing thing, it deserves jail time for a child.
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#14 Old 12-07-2008, 07:37 PM
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That is cruelty. To leave a dog who cannot walk outside in 6 degree weather, I heard about that in the news. That is cruel, my dog does not even go outside in the rain, I take her for lots of walks if she gets 2 or 3 pounds over her suppose to be size!

^Cool story, bro
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#15 Old 12-07-2008, 08:10 PM
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Cruelty is feeding it until it can't move. Being unable to bring a heavy, immobile dog inside was probably an unintended consequence.
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#16 Old 12-07-2008, 10:23 PM
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DNK, your comment is only correct if the additional cost of prison time is the best way to better society for the same amount of resources.



In my opinion, the costs of housing a prisoner (over $35,000 per year in my state) is often a poor waste of resources when cheaper alternative punishments can be considered and considering the lack of evidence that prison is the most effective solution for lowering recidivism rates.



Every dollar spent on a prison is a dollar that comes from the people, and a dollar that could have been spent on better health-care, resources for the poor, infrastructure maintenance, community outreach programs, education, or more police officers in the streets.
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#17 Old 12-08-2008, 02:56 PM
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More police officers to keep people safe and likewise disincentives due to jail time also can keep people safe.



It isn't about recidivism it's about prevention. It's fair to say that the parents that do such things should be heavily monitored if not outright barred from looking over any other children. Recidivism isn't an issue in that case. Potentially negligent parents need to know that extreme negligence will be considered a jailable offense, and know that the punishment will be regularly followed. Community service is such a weak punishment (lots of people do it voluntarily) that it's doubtful it will prevent anyone from doing physically harmful acts if the odds of being caught are low to begin with.
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#18 Old 12-08-2008, 05:16 PM
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50 pounds overweight!! It's unfortunate it was outside in that weather frozen stuck, but im glad help came when it did! Sad thing is, she will probably just get a slap on the wrist.
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#19 Old 12-08-2008, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DNK View Post

More police officers to keep people safe and likewise disincentives due to jail time also can keep people safe.



It isn't about recidivism it's about prevention. It's fair to say that the parents that do such things should be heavily monitored if not outright barred from looking over any other children. Recidivism isn't an issue in that case. Potentially negligent parents need to know that extreme negligence will be considered a jailable offense, and know that the punishment will be regularly followed. Community service is such a weak punishment (lots of people do it voluntarily) that it's doubtful it will prevent anyone from doing physically harmful acts if the odds of being caught are low to begin with.



I've never met a criminal who thought he or she was going to be caught before committing the crime.



Maybe some criminals consider the sentence, but for most, they seem to think that they'll never get caught.
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