Yes in China they really do eat dogs it's sick - Page 2 - VeggieBoards
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#31 Old 04-15-2008, 08:48 AM
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If I were an avid meat eater and someone offered me dog, I would accept.





Then again, like others have mentioned, some people just can't wrap their minds around eating an animal that so many view as a 'friend' and 'companion'.



Of course, I view all animals as friends and companions. Thus is why I choose not to eat them when I have a choice, which is most always the case. With that said, I don't think it would be right to criticize the population of any location on Earth for consuming what they wish. Flesh is flesh, no matter from a dog, cat, or even tiger. The only case I would see unrelenting arguments as necessary would be in the case of endangered species.
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#32 Old 04-15-2008, 02:28 PM
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I just read through the whole thread, it was sad. I don't think there is much more too it. I just hope this type of brutality stops.
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#33 Old 04-17-2008, 09:51 AM
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It's very sad to see something like this, and I am sure lots of meat-eaters would find it disgusting, and horrible. They obviously see the difference between eating a dog or a cow. Like many people said it here, dogs are special companions for humans, many of us think of them as family, and we love them as pets and we love to spoil and treat them well. I think most people have the chance to know dogs personalities, and they have special bonds with them. If people would have more chance and insight to see other animals personalities, (cows, chickens, pigs, ) then I am sure we could change how people would view and think of eating any kind of animals at all.

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#34 Old 04-18-2008, 07:21 AM
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What baffles me is, what kind of people torture and kill animals anyways? For food or otherwise. Ive never understood this. How can a Korean, for example, go work at his Dog slaughtering plant (or whatever its called) boil and torture some dogs all day, then come home to his wife and kids and be okay with himself enough to go and do it again the next day? Same goes for all the other meat farmers & such. How is this okay? Just blows my mind...
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#35 Old 04-18-2008, 05:47 PM
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I still think that the fact the Chinese are responsible for just about killing off all the tigers in the world because they use them as an aphrodisiac is much worse than their eating dogs, since dogs are NOT an endangered species.



Violence against any animal is violence and it is all abhorrent.
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#36 Old 04-18-2008, 06:11 PM
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In defense of the Chinese in general...



In college I lived with two girls from China, recently moved here in their mid teens. They ate very strange diets, mostly of fish and vegetable base, but also jellyfish, chicken feet, cow stomach, yeah. Taboo to us, but it is what they know. They were also from a poor area inland, and they had eaten dog. It isn't so much a matter of animal rights out there, it's a matter of survival. Very poor towns do what they can to survive, and I'm grateful I'm not in that position. I wouldn't call either of those girls brutal, in fact, I think they're more enlightened on the circle of life and respecting the animals they eat than anyone else. I would say their diets are mostly vegan, with the exception of a few meals here and there, which would put them as a nation in a much better place than most American steak house fiends.



Also, their culture (my friends, not Chinese in general) didn't have pets really, when I got my guinea pigs, the one didn't understand why I would pay to feed something that I should cook. I was shocked when she said that, but I mean, I understand. Where she grew up, she wasn't interested in saving anything but herself and family.



Also, I believe humanity when broken down to its poorest and tougest, reverts to a more primitive, hunting form, where animals are prey. That is how man was before modern civilization.



I in no way defend the abuse of dogs whether for amusement or food, I'm merely pointing out we don't understand their situations, and can't be so hasty to judge. Americans on the other hand, have no excuse given the plentiful food options made to us.
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#37 Old 04-19-2008, 11:35 AM
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I liked this post (and it agrees with what I've heard elsewhere).





Quote:
Originally Posted by nykoelle View Post

In defense of the Chinese in general...



In college I lived with two girls from China, recently moved here in their mid teens. They ate very strange diets, mostly of fish and vegetable base, but also jellyfish, chicken feet, cow stomach, yeah. Taboo to us, but it is what they know. They were also from a poor area inland, and they had eaten dog. It isn't so much a matter of animal rights out there, it's a matter of survival. Very poor towns do what they can to survive, and I'm grateful I'm not in that position. I wouldn't call either of those girls brutal, in fact, I think they're more enlightened on the circle of life and respecting the animals they eat than anyone else. I would say their diets are mostly vegan, with the exception of a few meals here and there, which would put them as a nation in a much better place than most American steak house fiends.



Also, their culture (my friends, not Chinese in general) didn't have pets really, when I got my guinea pigs, the one didn't understand why I would pay to feed something that I should cook. I was shocked when she said that, but I mean, I understand. Where she grew up, she wasn't interested in saving anything but herself and family.



Also, I believe humanity when broken down to its poorest and tougest, reverts to a more primitive, hunting form, where animals are prey. That is how man was before modern civilization.



I in no way defend the abuse of dogs whether for amusement or food, I'm merely pointing out we don't understand their situations, and can't be so hasty to judge. Americans on the other hand, have no excuse given the plentiful food options made to us.

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#38 Old 04-19-2008, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nykoelle View Post

In defense of the Chinese in general...



In college I lived with two girls from China, recently moved here in their mid teens. They ate very strange diets, mostly of fish and vegetable base, but also jellyfish, chicken feet, cow stomach, yeah. Taboo to us, but it is what they know. They were also from a poor area inland, and they had eaten dog. It isn't so much a matter of animal rights out there, it's a matter of survival. Very poor towns do what they can to survive, and I'm grateful I'm not in that position. I wouldn't call either of those girls brutal, in fact, I think they're more enlightened on the circle of life and respecting the animals they eat than anyone else. I would say their diets are mostly vegan, with the exception of a few meals here and there, which would put them as a nation in a much better place than most American steak house fiends.



Also, their culture (my friends, not Chinese in general) didn't have pets really, when I got my guinea pigs, the one didn't understand why I would pay to feed something that I should cook. I was shocked when she said that, but I mean, I understand. Where she grew up, she wasn't interested in saving anything but herself and family.



Also, I believe humanity when broken down to its poorest and tougest, reverts to a more primitive, hunting form, where animals are prey. That is how man was before modern civilization.



I in no way defend the abuse of dogs whether for amusement or food, I'm merely pointing out we don't understand their situations, and can't be so hasty to judge. Americans on the other hand, have no excuse given the plentiful food options made to us.



excellent post, you nailed it. understanding cultural differences is the first step to understanding other people and losing the tendency so many so often have to feel morally superior or to denigrate that which they don't understand. understanding others does not mean one can't try to change the attitudes and educate. in fact, understanding is essential when trying to promote change.
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#39 Old 04-20-2008, 01:02 AM
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Originally Posted by mangogirl View Post

It's very sad to see something like this, and I am sure lots of meat-eaters would find it disgusting, and horrible. They obviously see the difference between eating a dog or a cow. Like many people said it here, dogs are special companions for humans, many of us think of them as family, and we love them as pets and we love to spoil and treat them well. I think most people have the chance to know dogs personalities, and they have special bonds with them. If people would have more chance and insight to see other animals personalities, (cows, chickens, pigs, ) then I am sure we could change how people would view and think of eating any kind of animals at all.



I agree with what you said. If other people take a closer look and find all animal's are supposed to be our friend's!
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#40 Old 04-20-2008, 01:07 AM
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I understand it's a culture over there to kill innocent dog's but once again I feel this is wrong, regardless of an american slaughterhouse or a chinese dog slaughter, its all cruelty to me. What if some people need to survive? perhap's they also have other foods to live ie plant based, instead of killing their own animal's.
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#41 Old 04-20-2008, 02:45 PM
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I understand it's a culture over there to kill innocent dog's but once again I feel this is wrong, regardless of an american slaughterhouse or a chinese dog slaughter, its all cruelty to me. What if some people need to survive? perhap's they also have other foods to live ie plant based, instead of killing their own animal's.



What are they going to do? Go to a "store" with no money? From what I understand, a lot of these people were living off the land.
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#42 Old 04-21-2008, 01:20 AM
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and in china, they really do eat things that are alive! when i was looking up the dog trade industry i came across some videos of people eating live octopus. poor thing! first he was dipped in sauce, and then eaten alive!
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#43 Old 04-21-2008, 09:07 AM
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i've never seen or heard of that one, but if true, the difference between that and steaming a lobster alive like they do in Maine and elsewhere in the USA is what exactly? the lobster is dead when the steaming is done, so that is better?



again, the 'horrors' one sees in others are often defined by one's cultural background. i think the focus on 'the shocking things that they do in China' is often cultural centrism.
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#44 Old 04-21-2008, 03:59 PM
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again, the 'horrors' one sees in others are often defined by one's cultural background. i think the focus on 'the shocking things that they do in China' is often cultural centrism.



Just because we have different cultures, and traditions in this world, it doesn't mean the ones that are different from ours is acceptable. We can try to understand other countries cultures, but there has to be a common sense that suggest that some cultural behaviors are just wrong. To eat any animals is wrong in my eyes, but at least in the West we have animal rights that protects dogs. In China, they don't have any animal rights. The people are under-educated and so simple that they think that to survive they need to grab the nearest animal and just brutally slaughter them, just because people are starving. if they would have some inteligence they would find another way. In Africa there are so many starving people, and some of them live in such simple ways, but they don't eat dogs there either, and they would have as much right to eat a stray dog as people in China. (People who are so desperate to survive) So I find it hard to understand when people defend such a brutal act. In China there are more animals species who get slaughtered for food, fur, animal testing and any other ridiculous reason than in the West, because people are so under-educated, and barbaric. Of course I don't mean all of China, I mean the people of rural areas who don't get a basic education.
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#45 Old 04-21-2008, 05:02 PM
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In China, they don't have any animal rights. The people are under-educated and so simple that they think that to survive they need to grab the nearest animal and just brutally slaughter them, just because people are starving.



I'll leave this for Savannah to deal with, but how do you explain the Buddha's Birthday celebration every year in Brisbane, run by Chinese Buddhists and all vegetarian?
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#46 Old 04-21-2008, 05:20 PM
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In China, they don't have any animal rights.



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I'll leave this for Savannah to deal with, but how do you explain the Buddha's Birthday celebration every year in Brisbane, run by Chinese Buddhists and all vegetarian?

Maybe because Brisbane isn't actually in China? Or maybe because Buddhist vegetarianism has nothing to do with animal rights?

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#47 Old 04-21-2008, 06:00 PM
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excellent post, you nailed it. understanding cultural differences is the first step to understanding other people and losing the tendency so many so often have to feel morally superior or to denigrate that which they don't understand. understanding others does not mean one can't try to change the attitudes and educate. in fact, understanding is essential when trying to promote change.





Then why are we all so hot and bothered over the way cows and pigs and chickens are treated here? It is culturally acceptable to the general public here to do what is done. If what is done here is bad, then what is done there is bad. They just do it all differently and to a creature that we let sleep on the couch or in our beds with us.
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#48 Old 04-21-2008, 06:05 PM
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What are they going to do? Go to a "store" with no money? From what I understand, a lot of these people were living off the land.



And living off the land (vegetables,fruit, grains, etc.) is what we are all trying to do here. What is wrong with that? And they've been living like this for generations and it is only with the growth in exports, hence their economy, that the vice of eating meat has become more commonplace resulting in more and more animals being tortured.



Sorry, don't accept that "it's their culture" anymore than I accept that it's North America's/Europe's culture to torture and abuse animals.
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#49 Old 04-22-2008, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by againstcruelty View Post

Just because we have different cultures, and traditions in this world, it doesn't mean the ones that are different from ours is acceptable. We can try to understand other countries cultures, but there has to be a common sense that suggest that some cultural behaviors are just wrong. To eat any animals is wrong in my eyes, but at least in the West we have animal rights that protects dogs. In China, they don't have any animal rights. The people are under-educated and so simple that they think that to survive they need to grab the nearest animal and just brutally slaughter them, just because people are starving. if they would have some inteligence they would find another way. In Africa there are so many starving people, and some of them live in such simple ways, but they don't eat dogs there either, and they would have as much right to eat a stray dog as people in China. (People who are so desperate to survive) So I find it hard to understand when people defend such a brutal act. In China there are more animals species who get slaughtered for food, fur, animal testing and any other ridiculous reason than in the West, because people are so under-educated, and barbaric. Of course I don't mean all of China, I mean the people of rural areas who don't get a basic education.



once again, you make the mistake of confusing understanding why something like eating dogs happens with defending the eating of dogs. you truly also seem to not understand the cultural imperatives that arise by the need to find food in order to exist. you are instead dealing in value judgments that seem to reflect cultural centrism that finds the eating of dogs 'barbaric' in comparison to the eating of cattle or chickens.



yes, in rural China especially many people are uneducated and in many places there exists a way of life that is akin to life in rural America in the 1800's or even in Europe before then. so there is a cultural tendency to see animals far differently than you and i see them. combine that with a large population and a very different culture and there obviously will be things done there that seem very bizarre compared to life here. but the arguments that such and such is brutal compared to other animal eating really don't hold up. i am tired of the 'shock' that is announced on these threads which inevitably leads to comments like 'thats why i hate China' by some on this board and like statements. all the justifications boil down to the same thing: cultural centrism enables one to find some things horrors in comparison to the horrors that you are more accumstomed to, but they are in reality equally horrible. so that is what I object to, the willingness to condemn an entire people based upon culturally centric value judgments. that is not a defense of dog eating anymore than it is a defense of eating a cow.
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#50 Old 04-22-2008, 08:23 PM
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Then why are we all so hot and bothered over the way cows and pigs and chickens are treated here? It is culturally acceptable to the general public here to do what is done. If what is done here is bad, then what is done there is bad. They just do it all differently and to a creature that we let sleep on the couch or in our beds with us.



that is the point. they are both bad and they are also 'culturally acceptable'. but what is often expressed is that what is foreign to us is somehow 'worse' when it conflicts with our cultural norms. in reality, both eating dogs and eating cows are equally objectionable. i understand why both occur however and understand that education is necessary to change the current state of affairs in both China and in the West.
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#51 Old 04-22-2008, 09:00 PM
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Maybe because Brisbane isn't actually in China? Or maybe because Buddhist vegetarianism has nothing to do with animal rights?



The people concerned are Chinese, from China. Presumably there are people in China of the same persuasion and therefore not as described earlier ('Under-educated and so simple that they think that to survive they need to grab the nearest animal and just brutally slaughter them')

A philosophy of not killing any sentient beings has a lot to do with animal rights as it bestows the right to life on the animals concerned.
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#52 Old 04-22-2008, 09:08 PM
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The people are under-educated and so simple that they think that to survive they need to grab the nearest animal and just brutally slaughter them, just because people are starving. if they would have some inteligence they would find another way. In Africa there are so many starving people, and some of them live in such simple ways, but they don't eat dogs there either, and they would have as much right to eat a stray dog as people in China. (People who are so desperate to survive) So I find it hard to understand when people defend such a brutal act. In China there are more animals species who get slaughtered for food, fur, animal testing and any other ridiculous reason than in the West, because people are so under-educated, and barbaric. Of course I don't mean all of China, I mean the people of rural areas who don't get a basic education.



It's not starving people in rural areas responsible for the dog meat trade:



'Animals Asia field investigators have witnessed trucks loaded with anything up to 2,000 dogs per truck arriving at the wholesale Hua Nam Wild Animal Market in Guangzhou. These poor animals have spent 3 days and 3 nights, squashed together in tiny cages, unable to move, without food, water or shelter. The dogs are then brutally lifted by the neck and hurled into a pen by a man wielding a metal tongs. Here they fight through fear, hunger and desperation to survive whilst awaiting a horrendously slow death in order to provide meat for restaurants in Guangzhou'.



Now, I'm really depressed.
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#53 Old 04-22-2008, 10:53 PM
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And living off the land (vegetables,fruit, grains, etc.) is what we are all trying to do here. What is wrong with that? And they've been living like this for generations and it is only with the growth in exports, hence their economy, that the vice of eating meat has become more commonplace resulting in more and more animals being tortured.



Sorry, don't accept that "it's their culture" anymore than I accept that it's North America's/Europe's culture to torture and abuse animals.



And crops are fully successful every year and there's always a surplus.
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#54 Old 04-22-2008, 11:00 PM
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And crops are fully successful every year and there's always a surplus.



There's no more need for a hungry person in China to eat dog meat than there is for a hungry person elsewhere to eat pig, cow or chicken meat.
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#55 Old 04-22-2008, 11:08 PM
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There's no more need for a hungry person in China to eat dog meat than there is for a hungry person elsewhere to eat pig, cow or chicken meat.



Please elaborate.
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#56 Old 04-22-2008, 11:14 PM
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Please elaborate.



Looking at the Animals Asia website once today was enough for me, but you may, if you want to know more.
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#57 Old 04-22-2008, 11:24 PM
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Looking at the Animals Asia website once today was enough for me, but you may, if you want to know more.



You do understand that I with you in terms of no animal should be eaten. I think my point is unrelated to this thread, really, which is if you're starving you'll eat anything identifiable as food.



I definitely think it's horrible that dog eating should be an INDUSTRY. I doubt poverty explains that. I withdraw my argument.
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#58 Old 04-23-2008, 12:44 AM
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I withdraw my argument.



Don't do that. I wanted a fight!



Seriously - That Animals Asia site has depressed the sh*t out of me.
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#59 Old 04-23-2008, 01:32 AM
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but at least in the West we have animal rights that protects dogs.

We absolutely do not have animal rights that protect dogs. In addition to the treatment of dogs as "pets" and abusing and killing them, have you ever heard of vivisection?





As to the main topic, I think there are forms of animal abuse occurring in China which would not occur in, say, the US, due to the fact that the US has at least some welfare regulations -- although very very poor, pathetic ones.



To say that is not cultural centrism.

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#60 Old 04-23-2008, 09:46 AM
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It's not starving people in rural areas responsible for the dog meat trade:



'Animals Asia field investigators have witnessed trucks loaded with anything up to 2,000 dogs per truck arriving at the wholesale Hua Nam Wild Animal Market in Guangzhou. These poor animals have spent 3 days and 3 nights, squashed together in tiny cages, unable to move, without food, water or shelter. The dogs are then brutally lifted by the neck and hurled into a pen by a man wielding a metal tongs. Here they fight through fear, hunger and desperation to survive whilst awaiting a horrendously slow death in order to provide meat for restaurants in Guangzhou'.



Now, I'm really depressed.



Yes, no wonder, I am depressed too. I remember seeing a photograph a few months ago of a truck with full of dogs going from Cambodia to Laos, hundreds of them crammed in a small place with no water and food. I cried for so long...seeing their little faces and they do not know what fate awaits them. There is definitely nothing humane about this at all. They're going through so much suffering, it makes me feel sick to my stomach. And I feel the same about all the animals that are getting slaughtered. This world is so F***** up!

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Ignorance is the key. Too much knowledge and you're doomed."

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