Class dissection of live dog outrages parents, students - VeggieBoards
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#1 Old 05-13-2005, 11:27 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Wolfie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,850
Wolfie is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 Old 05-13-2005, 11:35 PM
Newbie
 
GhostUser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 0
.....





I don't know if I want to throw up, cry, hit something or all three.







And the principal wants this to continue?!
GhostUser is offline  
#3 Old 05-14-2005, 03:45 AM
Veggie Regular
 
berrykat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,203
why? I mean why is this aceptable?
berrykat is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#4 Old 05-14-2005, 07:38 AM
Newbie
 
GhostUser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 0
How is killing the dog afterwards any worse than killing the dog first?
GhostUser is offline  
#5 Old 05-14-2005, 08:22 AM
Veggie Regular
 
zephyr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 221
Guys, guys. Children need this experience, it's part of growing up. Anyway, animals don't feel pain like humans do, I read that animals like to be dissected. And also, there are too many dogs these days, why shouldn't we thin them out, and give our children a good education at the same time? Bierregaard sounds like a very wise man, but even he's too sensitive, sedate the dog first? Just shoot the beast! And Sierra Sears saying it makes her sick? She's worse then you guys! Dissecting frogs is even more of a joke. They're stupid slimy little creatures that don't feel pain, and truly deserve to be cut up for the progression of science!
zephyr is offline  
#6 Old 05-14-2005, 10:14 AM
Veggie Regular
 
BoricuaVeggie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 476
that's vivisection... OMFG! what is wrong with these people...
BoricuaVeggie is offline  
#7 Old 05-14-2005, 10:49 AM
Veggie Regular
 
ingenting's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 468
:'(
ingenting is offline  
#8 Old 05-14-2005, 11:09 AM
Newbie
 
GhostUser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scratch View Post

How is killing the dog afterwards any worse than killing the dog first?





viv·i·sec·tion

n.



The act or practice of cutting into or otherwise injuring living animals, especially for the purpose of scientific research





I'm against dissection, but vivisection is so much worse




http://www.aavs.org/intro.html
GhostUser is offline  
#9 Old 05-14-2005, 11:10 AM
Newbie
 
Good Populace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 74
WTF?



"I thought that it would be just really a good experience if they could see the digestive system in the living animal," Bierregaard said.





How in the world could that be a good experience?

What a disgusting man.
Good Populace is offline  
#10 Old 05-14-2005, 12:01 PM
Newbie
 
GhostUser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 0
If the dog was unconscious for the whole thing anyway, then from the dog's POV it would just be like being put down - which they said was already going to happen.



I'm not saying it's okay, but in this case it's no different from just being killed as far as the dog knew.
GhostUser is offline  
#11 Old 05-14-2005, 12:46 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Vicky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 4,614
that's making me sick and sad ..... i don't see how anyone could learn anything by acutally cutting up an animal, live or dead. and even if students WOULD learn from it, why not show them a video instead ?
Vicky is offline  
#12 Old 05-14-2005, 01:21 PM
Beginner
 
auggie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 192
The reason the dog was going to be euthanized is even more disgusting.The dog(a rottweiler) was adopted by a family and apparently he/she was threatening their children.Instead of finding a suitable home for the dog,they gave it to a veterinarian who in turn decided the dog should be euthanized and made into a spectacle for a science experiment.

Yes,let's adopt a dog that is more aggressive and then throw the dog out like garbage

because we don't like it's behavior.How sad.
auggie is offline  
#13 Old 05-14-2005, 01:30 PM
Newbie
 
GhostUser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 0
I understand the teacher's argument, but what I don't get is how easily both he and the principle blank out on the subject of traumatizing the students. I mean, even if animal life is meaningless to you (and I think it must be if you are willing to do this for the "benefit" of a bunch of bored HS students who will forget most of what they're learning anyway), you still have to admit that witnessing such a thing could be quite traumatic. Why is no one stopping and saying, "Hey, wait a minute. We might be subjecting these students to horror they could do without."



I suspect that there is another motive here, on the part of the teacher. And I suspect it's a desire to shock.







The Rev
GhostUser is offline  
#14 Old 05-14-2005, 05:56 PM
Newbie
 
GhostUser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by auggie View Post

The reason the dog was going to be euthanized is even more disgusting.The dog(a rottweiler) was adopted by a family and apparently he/she was threatening their children.Instead of finding a suitable home for the dog,they gave it to a veterinarian who in turn decided the dog should be euthanized and made into a spectacle for a science experiment.

Yes,let's adopt a dog that is more aggressive and then throw the dog out like garbage

because we don't like it's behavior.How sad.





Ten dollars says the kids were pulling on the dogs ears and tail and the dog growled at them because it just wanted them to stop.
GhostUser is offline  
#15 Old 05-14-2005, 10:56 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Annie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,124
Your tax dollars at work.
Annie is offline  
#16 Old 05-16-2005, 08:24 AM
Veggie Regular
 
BoricuaVeggie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 476
I think dissection is pointless in school. I've cut up dead animals in middle school, high school, and college. Most of the time, the kids were more interested in mutilating the bodies (cutting off heads, arms, etc.) than looking at the organs.



I just finished taking a college level human anatomy course. No human cadavers were used, and I was still able to learn how the human body functions and where the organs are located in the body cavaties. We used anatomically correct plastic life size body models with plastic organs and I learned all the basics of the body with no problem. We were also shown videos of moving hearts, digestive organs, etc. and pictures of real dissected humans. I was able to learn without cutting anything up. Can't we do the same for animals to teach kids in school?



When my sister entered Vet school, they dissected cats and dogs that were euthanized at the pet shelter. Since these animals were going to be cremated otherwise, I felt their deaths at least taught these student vets how to perform the procedures they would be doing in a few years.



I will be starting dental school in July and we start gross anatomy the 2nd week. I will have to dissect a real human from the neck up. The reason I don't feel bad is because this person consented and donated their body to science.



I feel dissection should be reserved for students who will be actually having to work in a medically related profession. If others are interested, they can look up videos and pictures in the library or the Internet. Most of the kids in the classes where I had to dissect did not appreciate what they were observing, and they disrespected the bodies of the animals (snapping arms and legs, decapitation...). I just found this unnecessary.



Sorry for the ramble.
BoricuaVeggie is offline  
#17 Old 05-16-2005, 08:46 AM
Veggie Regular
 
vggiegirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,929
vggiegirl is offline  
#18 Old 05-16-2005, 09:04 AM
Veggie Regular
 
meatless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,670
This is awful
meatless is offline  
#19 Old 05-16-2005, 09:17 AM
Banned
 
Kurmudgeon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,034
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoricuaVeggie View Post

I think dissection is pointless in school. I've cut up dead animals in middle school, high school, and college. Most of the time, the kids were more interested in mutilating the bodies (cutting off heads, arms, etc.) than looking at the organs.



That's how it was in high school when we dissected rats. We twirled their intestines around and let them go so they'd stick on the walls and ceiling (I took part in that too..... but then I was an omnivore).
Kurmudgeon is offline  
#20 Old 05-16-2005, 09:20 AM
Newbie
 
manduh519's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 78
i wish that they would ship that man off and have him dissected like the dog was!
manduh519 is offline  
#21 Old 05-16-2005, 10:19 AM
Banned
 
catgirl67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,754
I saw this on the news last week. I literally almost threw up. How cruel and hideous. What goes around comes around.
catgirl67 is offline  
#22 Old 05-16-2005, 11:34 AM
Veggie Regular
 
rainbow_clouds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,579
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoricuaVeggie View Post

I think dissection is pointless in school. I've cut up dead animals in middle school, high school, and college. Most of the time, the kids were more interested in mutilating the bodies (cutting off heads, arms, etc.) than looking at the organs.



I just finished taking a college level human anatomy course. No human cadavers were used, and I was still able to learn how the human body functions and where the organs are located in the body cavaties. We used anatomically correct plastic life size body models with plastic organs and I learned all the basics of the body with no problem. We were also shown videos of moving hearts, digestive organs, etc. and pictures of real dissected humans. I was able to learn without cutting anything up. Can't we do the same for animals to teach kids in school?



When my sister entered Vet school, they dissected cats and dogs that were euthanized at the pet shelter. Since these animals were going to be cremated otherwise, I felt their deaths at least taught these student vets how to perform the procedures they would be doing in a few years.



I will be starting dental school in July and we start gross anatomy the 2nd week. I will have to dissect a real human from the neck up. The reason I don't feel bad is because this person consented and donated their body to science.



I feel dissection should be reserved for students who will be actually having to work in a medically related profession. If others are interested, they can look up videos and pictures in the library or the Internet. Most of the kids in the classes where I had to dissect did not appreciate what they were observing, and they disrespected the bodies of the animals (snapping arms and legs, decapitation...). I just found this unnecessary.



Sorry for the ramble.



I agree 100% with you.
rainbow_clouds is offline  
#23 Old 05-16-2005, 09:27 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Wolfie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,850
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sokara View Post

Ten dollars says the kids were pulling on the dogs ears and tail and the dog growled at them because it just wanted them to stop.



$100 says you're right.



I don't know what's worse--this story or the fact that on the board where I first heard of it, everyone was joking about it.



I really hate people sometimes (except for the ones here.)
Wolfie is offline  
#24 Old 05-16-2005, 10:46 PM
Newbie
 
GhostUser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoricuaVeggie View Post

I think dissection is pointless in school. I've cut up dead animals in middle school, high school, and college. Most of the time, the kids were more interested in mutilating the bodies (cutting off heads, arms, etc.) than looking at the organs.



I just finished taking a college level human anatomy course. No human cadavers were used, and I was still able to learn how the human body functions and where the organs are located in the body cavaties. We used anatomically correct plastic life size body models with plastic organs and I learned all the basics of the body with no problem. We were also shown videos of moving hearts, digestive organs, etc. and pictures of real dissected humans. I was able to learn without cutting anything up. Can't we do the same for animals to teach kids in school?



When my sister entered Vet school, they dissected cats and dogs that were euthanized at the pet shelter. Since these animals were going to be cremated otherwise, I felt their deaths at least taught these student vets how to perform the procedures they would be doing in a few years.



I will be starting dental school in July and we start gross anatomy the 2nd week. I will have to dissect a real human from the neck up. The reason I don't feel bad is because this person consented and donated their body to science.



I feel dissection should be reserved for students who will be actually having to work in a medically related profession. If others are interested, they can look up videos and pictures in the library or the Internet. Most of the kids in the classes where I had to dissect did not appreciate what they were observing, and they disrespected the bodies of the animals (snapping arms and legs, decapitation...). I just found this unnecessary.



Sorry for the ramble.





I could not have said it better!
GhostUser is offline  
#25 Old 05-17-2005, 02:24 AM
Veggie Regular
 
epski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 12,374
Isn't this a sure sign of insanity?
epski is offline  
#26 Old 05-17-2005, 09:49 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Noelson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 689
You can let them know how you feel - it's a feedback form for parents

http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/addcomments/ut/646

Parents: Provide Feedback About Gunnison Valley High School
Noelson is offline  
#27 Old 05-17-2005, 11:02 AM
Banned
 
Life2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 4,791
It is a total disrespect for life. Who the heck gave a substitute teacher the authority to arrange such a class at the vet's? True the dog wasn't in pain, but no one will ever convince me that condoning such a thing doesn't desensitize young people to the pain in all animals, and the reality of the value of life in all creatures. It made me blazing-flames-coming-out-the-ears angry!
Life2k is offline  
#28 Old 05-17-2005, 11:08 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Mycoolcats's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 706
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good Populace View Post

WTF?



"I thought that it would be just really a good experience if they could see the digestive system in the living animal," Bierregaard said.





How in the world could that be a good experience?

What a disgusting man.





yeah, i once had a "mad" scientist teacher, he wanted us to do in depth water samples, hed blow up gases in pringles cans and hit the celing etc lol, in no way did he have to hurt or kill anything for us to pay attention and learn a lot, we thought all of it was fun and learned from it too.... im sure a lot of students had a problem with it and thats why it made the news... its ashame the asshat principal supports it.. like how about you support me ripping out your familys hearts and the "students" can learn something from live hearts?
Mycoolcats is offline  
#29 Old 05-18-2005, 04:26 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Catryna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 599
Where did you guys see the part about the dog belonging to a family? It wasn't in the article.
Catryna is offline  
#30 Old 05-18-2005, 11:16 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Noelson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 689
Thanks to all who wrote to the school - this from In Defense of Animals:



5. Live Dog Dissected in Utah High School



When word got out that a live dog had been dissected as part of a biology lesson for students at Gunnison Valley High School in Utah, students, teachers, school administrators and parents expressed disgust and outrage that such a horrific procedure had been performed in the name of education. Substitute biology teacher Doug Bjerregaard made his class watch a veterinarian cut open and remove the digestive tract of an anaesthetized dog brought in from an animal shelter and subsequently euthanized. In attempting to explain his rationale for the lesson, Bjerregaard said "I thought that it would be just really a good experience if they could see the digestive system in the living animal." But what did students really learn from the experience? Gunnison Valley High student Sierra Sears told a television reporter, "It just makes me sick and I don't think this should go on anywhere and nobody's learning from it."





IDA completely agrees with Sears' insightful assessment. In a letter to South Sanpete School District Superintendent Jim Peterson, IDA President Elliot M. Katz, DVM wrote, "The result of this teaching experiment was to teach exploitation of other beings - not a very positive message to send to students, and not a message that will encourage them to grow up to be caring and compassionate adults. It's ridiculous to think that anything could be learned by such an exercise. All it showed was the insensitivity and arrogance of the teacher."



In response to the many complaints received from around the country, Superintendent Petersen released a public statement in which he apologized for the incident and went on record that "such procedures...will not be allowed in the future."











Click here to send an automatic email thanking Superintendent Petersen for banning such procedures and asking him to adopt a district-wide policy prohibiting the use of all animals as educational tools.
Noelson is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the VeggieBoards forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in


Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off