"Your Vegetarianism Probably Is Just A Phase" - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 12-04-2014, 09:26 PM
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"Your Vegetarianism Probably Is Just A Phase"

Quote:
Surveying a representative sample of more than 11,000 adults in the United States, the researchers found that 2 percent were currently vegetarians or vegans, 10 percent were formerly meat-free and 88 percent had never dabbled in plant-based eating.

Describing the findings as "disappointing," the researchers investigated what factors may have contributed to the 10 percent of lapsed veggie-eaters. They found that a majority of them lacked social support, vegetarian-themed group activities and didn't like sticking out from their friends. (This corroborates a pretty sizable body of research that suggests you eat what your friends eat.) Other reasons for giving up: having trouble with animal-based cravings and the difficulty of doing anything cold turkey, so to speak.
Read the rest here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/1...ushpmg00000063

This is very disappointing but not too surprising considering how peoples friends and family can make them feel so alienated for being different.

What can we do to offer more support to newbie vegetarians? Would a stronger online community with more people offering advice help?
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#2 Old 12-04-2014, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Werewolf Girl View Post
What can we do to offer more support to newbie vegetarians? Would a stronger online community with more people offering advice help?
Honestly, the support I found here really helped me get my husband to see things differently, so I definitely think a strong online community is important. However, I also think that getting more people here is! I was lucky that I stumbled across the board, but when most people try to go veg they have no clue where to begin. Especially because veg*nism is so strongly associated with demonized groups like PETA and "hippies" and the like.

I also think that people need support from family/friends that are local as well to be successful. I "lapsed" several times due to pressure from my SO before we gave it up for good in March and can tell you that his unfettered support is probably the single most important thing in my transition. That said, I also feel like a "stepped" transition can be important for newbies.

I wonder if we need to be a little more tolerant of people on the transition board that want to take it slowly. It took me almost 3 years to gather a large enough repetoire of recipes and cooking techniques to be confident enough in my decision to even approach the topic of ceasing it entirely. I agree that pro-meat should stay prohibited, but I also feel like some of the louder members of the board can occasionally alienate people who "slip up" or don't transition "fast enough." Just my 2 cents.
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#3 Old 12-08-2014, 11:38 AM
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I think sometimes it is just a phase. And often it has little if anything to do with animals or your feelings about eating animals. And sometimes it's a process of trying it on to see if it fits, to see how it goes over with your friends and family. If their reaction to this change makes you feel foolish, you probably won't hang with it long at all. Sometimes a person meets an interesting vegetarian, and thinks, I'd be interesting too, if I did that. And of course, if your vegetarianism is the only thing about you that stands out, it won't be interesting to anyone at all. Or they see a vegetarian whose friends, bosses, etc., go out of their way to make it easy for this person not to eat meat. And this looks like the person has attained stature by giving up meat. When it's usually the opposite: that the person has a very high status within the group, and that's the reason their vegetarian diet is so well supported.
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#4 Old 12-08-2014, 03:10 PM
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I agree that for some it is just a phase, or an experiment.
But why are phases always so demeaned and trivialized in western culture?
A baby drinking breast milk is just in a breast milk phase. You dont hear people say "your 3 month old is just in a phase, give her some bacon!"
Potty training is just a phase. Tho one I assume most of us are glad we went through!
Phases make people more experienced and well-rounded people, and some will come back.
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Originally Posted by Aliakai View Post
I wonder if we need to be a little more tolerant of people on the transition board
I've noticed that too. People often get pounced on just for what someone assumes they might have implied.
Eating people alive doesnt seem vegetarian.
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#5 Old 12-08-2014, 07:22 PM
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I saw something about this on the news tonight. It is a bit discouraging. I have had very little support in real life, knew virtually no vegans up here where I live, and there are no groups for vegans or even vegetarians here. Most of my family and friends were against what I was doing. But I felt and feel such a strong conviction for what vegan means that I still had no problems at all with transitioning and making it stick. I still haven't turned back. For me it was and is strongly an ethical move. But I am not quite four years in. Who is to say something won't happen down the line? IDK. I would like to think I will stay vegan forever. It was easy for me because I am extremely independent and a bit of a loner and individualist. I also love to research, to dig to find answers, and I am very resourceful. I hate to eat out. I had severe intolerances to dairy and did not care much for meat before. I would force down fish because it was supposed to be so healthy. Still don't miss it at all. So maybe all of these factors contributed to success for me without social support. I did eventually find some vegan and vegetarian forums online, but it wasn't really so much that I needed support as it was a breath of fresh air to find others who share similar values, beliefs and practices. It is affirming to know that there are others out there living this lifestyle and it gives me hope for this world.

I found it interesting that the social aspect was what was mentioned as being the biggest reason for people returning to meat eating. Not health reasons (as this seems to be the area that omnivores argue over the most). Though I suspect that culture and socialization play a role in influencing people into believing that vegetarian is too extreme and unhealthy. There seem to be a lot of vegetarians and vegans who go back to eating meat but return to vegetarian/vegan too. I wish they would have mentioned that. I sometimes wonder if people go back to meat to test the waters and see if they really missed it or needed it. Maybe people crave familiarity. Change is hard for some.

I really haven't noticed too much intolerance on these boards compared to other forums. Just isolated stuff here and there. I like the diversity on VB.
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#6 Old 12-08-2014, 08:10 PM
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I am not quite four years in. Who is to say something won't happen down the line? IDK. I would like to think I will stay vegan forever.
I find that 'forever' isnt just sometimes intimidating, but can seem unrealistically idealistic.
I'm four years in too (we made the change just one month apart, lol) and I would like to think I'll stick with it 'forever' and I'm having a easy time with it but in practical terms each year I just commit to one more year.
A year is easy, and in the end whats the rest of our lives but a bunch of years lined up in a row.
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#7 Old 12-08-2014, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Werewolf Girl View Post

What can we do to offer more support to newbie vegetarians? Would a stronger online community with more people offering advice help?
I don't know that there's much more we can do.

On one hand, I agree with Aliakai that we do need to be kind to members that slip up. We're all living in a non-vegetarian world, which makes it difficult. We're all experiencing life in different ways (some of us are married to meat eaters, while others aren't ect.) and that means we can't just say "Well, I did it, so should you!". A measured approach, including helping people to transition slowly, is probably a really great place to start.

On the other hand, being vegetarian means you have to stand on your own two feet, eventually. We can offer all the support possible and some people will still just go back to eating animals "because it's too hard". Vegetarianism isn't going to stop being inconvenient in our life time (wish it was!) and to tell people something different from that, sets up unrealistic expectations. Going vegetarian and vegan isn't 'effortless', it takes work. Some people realise how much work it's going to take and realise they can't do it all in one go, but others just don't want to do it.




As for the article, I understand that this article is very disheartening, but.... It might not be 'that' bad. The survey, at least in an overview of it, has it's faults.

For a start, they surveyed 11,000 which is okay but an incredibly tiny sample from a large population. Also their descriptors are just "people in the U.S over 17". There's no mention of who these people are, where they lived, how old they were or even whether their meat consumption since going back to eating animals, had increased or decreased.

Another thing to consider is how many of the people who 'said' they were vegetarian, were actually vegetarian. There are still people who think eating fish is okay, how many of them 'went back' to eating meat?

On top of all of that, of the people who remained vegetarian, how long had they been vegetarian?

I'm not saying this study isn't important, it is. But in any kind of survey, it's only as insightful as the questions you're asking.
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#8 Old 12-10-2014, 08:18 PM
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Some people are rather unfortunate. They're alienated everywhere they go. The environment isn't right for them to carry on their belief.

Imagine going to wedding dinner and were told to sit at a vegetarian section specially reserved for them and separated from the others. There are times some vegetarians didn't turn out. He sits there with his wife and kid!

This article also gives me an idea to create a social section on websites for vegetarians in areas like workplaces to meet up at vegetarian restaurants for lunch. Make friends. If possible, become buddies.

People need support.
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#9 Old 12-11-2014, 03:26 AM
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Originally Posted by leong_cf View Post
Some people are rather unfortunate. They're alienated everywhere they go. The environment isn't right for them to carry on their belief.

Imagine going to wedding dinner and were told to sit at a vegetarian section specially reserved for them and separated from the others. There are times some vegetarians didn't turn out. He sits there with his wife and kid!

This article also gives me an idea to create a social section on websites for vegetarians in areas like workplaces to meet up at vegetarian restaurants for lunch. Make friends. If possible, become buddies.

People need support.
Speaking of weddings, I am going to one this weekend out of town for my husbands nephew. Last night at the last minute I was asked if I would want to help my MIL serve meat based chili at the wedding rehearsal dinner Friday as she has no one else available to help her. I just couldn't bring myself to say yes to doing this. It goes against my very nature and my strong ethical beliefs to serve a meat based dish to anyone. So I said I would not be going to the wedding rehearsal, just the wedding. There really isn't a reason for me to go to the rehearsal anyway as I am not in the wedding. I feel selfish in some ways turning her down. Normally I would jump to help someone. But not when it goes against what I believe in to such an extent. She knows i am vegan so I am surprised she asked me in the first place. Visiting the inlaws in farm country in the middle of nowhere for a whole weekend is always an isolating experience for me, but I bring my own food and try to shut out the talk of hunting and the meat dishes on the table and make the best of it and enjoy his family in other regards. I would never ask them to accommodate my needs, but I wouldn't ask them to do something they are against either. If I had to live in a house full of meat eaters like that every day in such a tiny farming community I imagine it would be so much tougher for me but I still would stand up for my ethical beliefs and be vegan. But yes it would be more isolating. I do not attend all the social food gatherings at my workplace (though I have tried to get vegan friendly food on the menu...hard to even get fresh fruit believe it or not) but in the smaller department gatherings I happily bring vegan dishes. In my old department everyone loved my dishes and I routinely passed out the recipes. In this new department I transfered to a few months ago they are much less open minded and adventerous and hardly anyone is interested in my food or veganism. It's discouraging, but not the end of the world. I subscribe to a few vegan magazines and journals and have a membership to a few international vegan organizations that help me not feel so alone in my ethical beliefs and way of life. I'm also in a better position to not live isolated in vegan only groups and ignore the rest of the world as some "extremist" do. I have managed to convert a few people, one at work and my sister. My husband eats mostly vegetarian at home and my Dad who lives in another state is off dairy. I just keep trying to focus on the positives.

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#10 Old 12-11-2014, 07:41 AM
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-- This is very disappointing but not too surprising considering how peoples friends and family can make them feel so alienated for being different. --

I really have mixed feelings about this. One part of me wants to help them and offer advice but another part wants to yell "grow a backbone darnit!". Why do we have to eat like our friends do? It makes no sense to me at all why people are trying to fit in, to play being a sheep in the herd. Be proud of who you are, different isn't bad! How the heck are our kids raised for them to think like that when they are adults?

-- What can we do to offer more support to newbie vegetarians? Would a stronger online community with more people offering advice help? --

An online community is always welcomed because almost everyone is online for answers nowadays. I find out that easy no fuss delicious recipes with only easy to find ingredients really helps because the first thing a vegetarian ask is what can I eat? I think we need more sample menus that anyone can put together with what's in their pantry or easily found at supermarkets. The easier the recipes the more encouraging staying veg*n will be.

Otherwise if they are unfortunately confronted by family and friends about their lifestyle, only good documented information with serious sources will make the un-informed shut up and maybe think. A good database of serious studies is needed as easy to access facts. If you have something serious to answer when they only have some "I think" who wins? Yep. also veg*n needs to stop thinking they are bothering family and friends. If you dad hates broccoli your mom is not cooking it for him right? Then why would it be more a fuss to cook a veggie chili for you? It's not like asking her to cook a meal with seitan and miso where she'll be at a loss about what the heck you are talking about lol.

All boils down to grow a backbone, be informed and make a good database of recipes until you have at minimum as many recipes as you usually had in a month while eating meat, so you don't feel like you are eating same thing always.

"To the world you may be just one person, but to one life you may be the world."


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#11 Old 12-11-2014, 09:25 AM
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Honestly, I've known a lot of people over the years who tried it, got extremely vocal about animal rights, the environmental impact, health ext.... but they all eventually went back to eating meat again. It really was just a fad/phase/way to look cool and didn't last long. And I noticed that all those people were ALWAYS looking for others (either) approval or shock (because they did it for the shock value). No amount of 'support' is going to help them remain veg/vegan either because they were never committed to it in the first place. Kind of like when I was 13/14/15 and I dyed my hair 67 neon colors, went to raves and got a bunch of piercings. I really wasn't genuinely interested in that kind of lifestyle long-term. It was all about shock value and what was 'cool' in the moment, and once that phase was over, there is NO WAY you could entice me to dye my hair blue and go to a rave these days. I still know some (now) adults I knew back then who still do all that stuff because they really like that lifestyle. It's the same idea with many vegetarians and vegans simply 'grow out of it"/ "loose interest" and you can't bring them back while a few stay committed for life.

As someone who truly feels committed to this lifestyle long-term (veg coming up on 16 years), I don't need anyones approval and don't care what you think about my choice. I know its wrong and refuse to support it, but I don't lie to myself and try to believe I can convince someone else to do the same.
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#12 Old 12-12-2014, 02:11 PM
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As an athiest/secular person, I dont like the idea of converting anyone to anything. I dont want to "win" anyone over. And I dont want to be "won" back to an omnivorous lifestyle.

You do you, I'll do me. If some one wants to know more about how/why I eat the way I do, I'll answer, but they have to bring that to me.
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#13 Old 12-12-2014, 02:17 PM
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Not that I am the best answerer of questions. Here are some I've given-

Why dont you eat meat? "because I like vegetarian food better". "I'd rather eat food I like"

Why not just eat fish? "because I dont have to eat fish. I can eat other, better, things."

Dont you miss bacon cheeseburgers? "I think its gross to eat multiple animals at one meal." "...and animals in general."
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#14 Old 12-14-2014, 06:47 PM
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As an athiest/secular person, I dont like the idea of converting anyone to anything. I dont want to "win" anyone over. And I dont want to be "won" back to an omnivorous lifestyle.

You do you, I'll do me. If some one wants to know more about how/why I eat the way I do, I'll answer, but they have to bring that to me.
I don't see the point in my vegetarianism, if I'm at least not trying to get someone to look a little more closely at their food. What's the point in me not eating animals, if everyone else still is? There's no benefit to the animals if I keep my mouth shut, y'know?

I mean, I don't turn around to a co-worker and say "EWWWW THERE'S A BODY IN YOUR FOOD" (though maybe I should, that would be hilarious). But if they're talking about any other Rights issue, when it comes time for my turn to speak, I mention the animals.
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#15 Old 12-14-2014, 07:16 PM
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I think just being a vegetarian is helpful. Once I had seen a vegetarian diet up close and personal, I felt even I could do it. Un fancy, plain old me.

I get complimented on my food all the time, and my friends are trying/ordering and making their own meatless dishes.

My birthday was entirely veggie, as are most of the dinners I host, and my guests love the food, and I believe it gives them an opening to actually considering a vegetarian diet.
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#16 Old 01-02-2015, 01:57 AM
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Hi all!

I too have little/ no contact with "real" people who are vegans sadly...

And yet I think that my actions have ensured that people I know do eat less meat and consume less dairy...

I would say that a person who changes to vegan (or vegetarian) for profound ethical reasons would not be one of those people "going through a phase"...People "going through a phase" would be more likely those trying to lose weight or get healthier IMO.
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#17 Old 01-02-2015, 07:56 AM
 
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Well regarding the "it's just a phase" subject. I've been getting that from my wife since I switched. I understand to some stage why, it has been a radical change from what I was eating before.
This week that I have family over and my mum brought the subject again, and my wife started again, trying to make me acknowledge in front of my family that I "knew" it was just a phase. I ended up telling her the truth:

- Wife: "Why don't you acknowledge it is just a phase and eat the proper new year's eve meal like everybody else"
- Me: "Because it's not just a phase"
- Wife: "Why are you so sure?"
- Me: "Because I took a vow"
- Wife: (Laughing) "A vow to whom?"
- Me: "A vow to myself"
- Wife: "A vow to yourself? And what makes you think you will stick to it"
- Me: "Well this vow is for me as strong as the vow I took when I married you, and I do not plan on going cheating on you anytime soon"

The conversation ended there
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#18 Old 01-02-2015, 12:12 PM
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This is so discouraging and sad
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#19 Old 01-02-2015, 04:22 PM
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Sorry your wife isnt supportive yet adun, she'll come around.
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#20 Old 01-08-2015, 09:00 PM
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I think that a lot of vegetarian "phases" take place in youth. As teenagers we're all trying to figure out who we are and what we believe in. We're exploring he world and seeing new truths, finding out what we can and cannot tolerate. I was fourteen when I became a vegetarian.

For me, having a mother who then easily made the chicken in a separate pan for our stir-fry was indispensable. As a newly minted teen I don't know how I would have faired had I had to fight with my mother about everything I ate. She wanted to make sure I had done my research and was healthy, and she tried to convince me to continue eating fish, but she did not push. She allowed me and enabled me to follow a diet I believed in. If she had laughed at me and throw the chicken in anyway and refused to buy tofu or vegetable lasagnas it would have been much much harder.

Having this online community helped me learn about vegetarianism and then veganism. It was instrumental in learning about my own health and what precautions to take, but it, alone, would not have been enough, at least not for 14-year-old me.

There are obviously other people who go through the "phase," either for vogue or health or some other reason, but a lot of those people would not continue anyway. For people who are transitioning I believe family support is very important, whether you're a child, a parent, an SO-if you're sharing a house and sharing a meal and sharing a grocery bill, it's a lot easier to do what you think is right when you don't have to fight with those you love.

I was lucky enough to have that support.

It turned out of course that my vegetarianism was just a phase. (A transitioning step toward veganism: 7 years meat-free, 5 vegan).
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#21 Old 01-08-2015, 09:05 PM
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It turned out of course that my vegetarianism was just a phase. (A transitioning step toward veganism: 7 years meat-free, 5 vegan).
If only every vegetarian "phase" ended in permanent veganism
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Why is the suffering and killing of animals wrong? Because the value of a sentient organism's life is priceless. They are their own beings and have their own lives and loves. They have higher emotions and thought processes. Their minds are different from ours in degree, not kind - meaning that fundamentally there are critical similarities.
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#22 Old 01-10-2015, 04:22 PM
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This is so discouraging and sad
I think we need to look at the positives and figure out what we can do better. People just need more support to stick with such a big change, it's hard when it feels like you're the odd one out and everyone around you is eating meat. I think the internet and forums like this make a huge impact and make people feel less alone, I know I might not have been able to stick to veganism without the support of VB.

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#23 Old 01-10-2015, 04:26 PM
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This forum is a blessing as most people i know find my choices bizarre
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#24 Old 01-11-2015, 10:46 AM
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This study is about new vegetarians giving it up after a year, or after less than three months. What it isn't saying is that the longer a person does stay with it, the less likely they are to give it up in the coming year. I do know people who have given it up after 12 years or even longer, but that's a lot less likely than giving it up during the first year. Until 2008 I had made a few unsuccessful attempts to give up meat, but none of them lasted more than a few months. For most people who try, the longer they're away from meat is the less they miss it.
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