Cow's Milk Vs. Non dairy milk(soymilk,rice milk,etc.) - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 12-06-2008, 01:10 PM
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I was just researching the pros and cons of human consumption of cow's milk. I am interested in the health aspects of both and the ethics of drinking cow's milk. What's your opinion? (Any links would be helpful)
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#2 Old 12-06-2008, 01:37 PM
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http://www.milksucks.com/



I much prefer soy beverages (in all their yummy flavors!) to the secretions of an abused dairy cow.
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#3 Old 12-06-2008, 01:56 PM
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Read an article about Nestle's son "coming out" to the media in saying that milk somehow prevents the absorption of protein. I couldn't find anything about it in a quick net search though. I also don't feel comfortable with the way that milk is produced and the volume. Poor Mr. Schmit is trying to do it the right way.



However, I'm weary of all of the processing, sugar and gunk in milk alternatives too. When it comes down to a choice between the two I would pick the least processed milk that I could find. The less processed the better in terms of health and environmental ethics.



You can make almond milk pretty easily in the blender... ooo and coconut milk is a treat
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#4 Old 12-06-2008, 02:01 PM
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With plant-based milks I think it's a good idea to choose the ones fortified with calcium and other vitamins. You can of course get those nutrients from other sources but as it's the same price it seems silly not to get the fortified one.
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#5 Old 12-06-2008, 02:14 PM
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I prefer soy for cooking. I don't drink any, but I never did. Rice is good for lighter flavors for things like soup, where you'll drink it, if you dislike the soy flavor. Silk brand soy creamer for coffee.



I have a soy milk maker and use that (when I'm not feeling particularly lazy, like I am of late, LOL)~ Makes really inexpensive soy milk, rice milk, nut milk, whatever you want. http://www.soymilkquick.com/soyquick...kmakersdz5.php Here's where I got my good soybeans: http://www.tosteds.com/products.asp?cat=11 (they're tiny and cute!)



And how about making your own TOFU!? YUMMIEST STUFF EVER. Fresh soy milk + coagulator + press (or colander, but it won't be the typical shape). http://www.soymilkquick.com/tofukits.php
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#6 Old 12-06-2008, 02:20 PM
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Some links for you.



Dairy products and health: http://www.vegansociety.com/people/h...ryproducts.php



Choosing to cut back or ditch dairy (non vegan source) http://health.msn.com/health-topics/...ntid=100153762



http://www.notmilk.com/ Pretty comprehensive site, about all different aspects of milk and what's "wrong" with it.



National Dairy Council (gee I wonder whose side they are on? LOL) http://www.nationaldairycouncil.org/...lDairyCouncil/



Dairy = veal: http://www.mercyforanimals.org/dairy_and_veal.asp



HTH.
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#7 Old 12-06-2008, 02:30 PM
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well cow's milk is not healthy at all, it is full of saturated fats. Hormones are given to cow's so that they produce more milk (RBST), traces of these hormones end up in milk. Milk is very processed, it is illegal in most places to get raw milk (unpasteurized). Most milk cartons contain milk from hundreds of cows, it is very rare to find a carton of milk that came from a single cow, because milk is produced on such a mass level the animals get treated more poorly by overcrowding. Most milk contains puss from the utters of the cow, utter infections are extremely common at dairy farms because the cows are overmilked by machines.

Cow milk is intended for baby cows (calves), it is full of fat and protein to help the calf grow hundreds of lbs in a short amt of time. We are not calves and our dietary requirments are not similar to calves at all, this is why the USDA recommends drinking 1-2% or nonfat milk to be healthy, if people drink full fat milk the few healthy parts about milk are canceled out by all of the artery clogging fat. 1 glass of full fat milk has = amt of sat fats as 12 pieces of bacon.

Milk has protein, and most people consume too much protein (in the US at least), over consumption of protein will cause your body not to absorb calcium. most people assume they get calcium from milk, however because a lot of people eat too much protein they are not able to absorb the calcium from the milk and their body ends up leaching calicum from bone. This leads to osteoperosis, the US has one of the highest rates of osteroperosis, we also consume more milk than anywhere else in the world.
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#8 Old 12-06-2008, 03:11 PM
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Soy milk is a little too sweet for my taste, so I'll stick to the normal one.



Oh, and I do not know if all the horrors exists in the milk companies where I live.

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#9 Old 12-06-2008, 03:25 PM
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Oh, and I do not know if all the horrors exists in the milk companies where I live.



where is that?
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#10 Old 12-06-2008, 03:26 PM
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where is that?



Sweden.

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#11 Old 12-06-2008, 03:40 PM
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Soy milk is a little too sweet for my taste, so I'll stick to the normal one.



Oh, and I do not know if all the horrors exists in the milk companies where I live.



By "normal" do you mean cow's milk? How "normal" is it to drink the milk of another species? What other animal on the planet does this?



Cow's milk was made for baby cows, whether it's from Swedish cows or American cows.
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#12 Old 12-06-2008, 04:00 PM
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By "normal" do you mean cow's milk? How "normal" is it to drink the milk of another species? What other animal on the planet does this?



Cow's milk was made for baby cows, whether it's from Swedish cows or American cows.



Don't cry me a river, I was referring to it as normal because of the fact that it is the one I drink most of the time, so it is normal, but not natural.

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#13 Old 12-06-2008, 10:31 PM
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What's the "don't cry me a river" about? TNS's point is perfectly valid.
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#14 Old 12-07-2008, 03:49 AM
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What's the "don't cry me a river" about? TNS's point is perfectly valid.



It is, I just think that it was an overreaction for such a simple thing as my preferences about milk.

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#15 Old 12-07-2008, 04:04 AM
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Sweden.



Being in Europe makes the swastika appearing in the earlier avatar even more disturbing to me.



Quote:
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Oh, and I do not know if all the horrors exists in the milk companies where I live.



I'm sure they do, if they're commercial dairies.

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#16 Old 12-07-2008, 04:11 AM
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Being in Europe makes the swastika appearing in the earlier avatar even more disturbing to me.



How come? I am not sympatizing with the nazis, I just liked the image.





Quote:
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I'm sure they do, if they're commercial dairies.



Are you "sure" or sure?

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#17 Old 12-07-2008, 04:31 AM
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Are you "sure" or sure?



I mean that if you purchase from commercial dairies, I'm sure that the cruelties that you read about exist in those. For example, taking calves away by force from their mothers on the day of or within days of birth is standard practice, because it means more milk for the farmer to sell. The practices that are standard are so because they make more profit for the farmer. As a rule, whenever animals are used in commerce, the animals do not fare well.



Re. the image, it's very loaded, and hard to separate from the Nazis and what they stood for, despite its origins. My surprise is that Europeans are even more aware than a lot of Americans about what the Nazis did.

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#18 Old 12-07-2008, 12:00 PM
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Re. the image, it's very loaded, and hard to separate from the Nazis and what they stood for, despite its origins. My surprise is that Europeans are even more aware than a lot of Americans about what the Nazis did.



Agreed. I find it very difficult to believe that someone could not be aware of that.
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#19 Old 12-07-2008, 12:23 PM
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By "normal" do you mean cow's milk? How "normal" is it to drink the milk of another species? What other animal on the planet does this?



Cow's milk was made for baby cows, whether it's from Swedish cows or American cows.

Whenever I say this to someone they'll usually be like, "What other species uses computers? What other animal drives cars...etc?" Which I agree with and since I'm kind of an anarcho-primitivist I understand this point! But yeah sometimes I say this to people and their like, "Wow!"



Anyways, I mostly use almond milk now. I would say from a health perspective, hemp milk is the healthiest and most nutritious, but it's also one of the hardest to find in stores and the most expensive.



Also, when people talk about the health effects of dairy products, lots of times they source vegan websites which can be a problem. Most people will brush those off as being biased and not reliable.

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#20 Old 12-07-2008, 12:40 PM
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Dairy and Stroke



Just have to counter that: http://www.infoniac.com/health-fitne...roke-risk.html

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#21 Old 12-07-2008, 12:44 PM
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Just have to counter that: http://www.infoniac.com/health-fitne...roke-risk.html

How is that countering the study I sourced? The study I sourced said certain dairy products can increase the risk of stroke. Yours said soy can reduce the risk of stroke

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#22 Old 12-07-2008, 12:51 PM
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Take a look at your study again.

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#23 Old 12-07-2008, 01:14 PM
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Take a look at your study again.

Whoops I stand corrected!

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#24 Old 12-07-2008, 05:16 PM
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Don't cry me a river, I was referring to it as normal because of the fact that it is the one I drink most of the time, so it is normal, but not natural.



And I'm the one over-reacting?
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#25 Old 12-08-2008, 01:51 PM
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And I'm the one over-reacting?



Maybe we are both overreacting.

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#26 Old 12-08-2008, 02:00 PM
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Sweden.



You are kind of right, in that factory farms are not as prevalent in Sweden and their are laws in place that help prevent cruelty to farm animals. however despite the animals being treated better, it does not make milk a healthy food, it still has loads of sat. fats and the protein/calcium absorption still exists as well.

it can be said that no matter how well the cow is treated we do not have the right (permission) from the cow to take its milk. especially since she is producing that milk for her babies, cows do not make milk unless they have babies (calves)...
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#27 Old 12-08-2008, 02:21 PM
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it still has loads of sat. fats and the protein/calcium absorption still exists as well.

I have read that sat. fat is not as dangerous as it seems, and even if, the milk I drink contain around 1 g saturated fat per 100 g milk.





Quote:
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it can be said that no matter how well the cow is treated we do not have the right (permission) from the cow to take its milk. especially since she is producing that milk for her babies, cows do not make milk unless they have babies (calves)...



That is correct.

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#28 Old 12-08-2008, 05:35 PM
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What Greensgood said ^^



Protein is thought to be linked to osteoporosis because your kidneys will swap hydrogen atoms (which cause acidity) for calcium ions in your pee to prevent overly acidic urine. A lifetime of excessive protein intake will deplete the calcium stored in your bones.



If you're interested in reading a book about the subject:

http://www.thechinastudy.com/about.html



Also, as you're researching, pay attention to who is funding the pro-milk studies. Very often there is a financial to to the agriculture industry.





Quote:
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Soy milk is a little too sweet for my taste, so I'll stick to the normal one.



Pretty much anywhere I've seen soymilk they have a plain option. Have you tried it? How about rice milk?
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#29 Old 12-08-2008, 06:04 PM
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There's actually been proven to be a link between drinking cow's milk & catching Type 1 diabetes. Just thought I'd include that to the conversation.



http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/321/7268/1040/d



http://www.rense.com/general4/dia.htm



I believe it's true though - because alot of people obtain Type 1 diabetes which the cause is virtually unexplainable compared to Type 2 which an explaination of cause can be established.



Cow's milk wasn't intended for human beings - end of.
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#30 Old 12-08-2008, 06:29 PM
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The thought of drinking cows milk at this point is just gross to me. I don't want to ingest hormones, I don't want to partake in the nasty dairy industry and so I choose to not touch cows milk or any dairy at all really.



I like soy milk, not a fan of rice milk and I haven't tried the others. I do know that when I have tasted cows milk in the past, it just tastes sour.



You can do a google search and find a ton of info as to why Milk is bad for you. I think if you wanted to experiment you could stop drinking it for a month or two. Try cows milk after that time and see what it tastes like.
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