trying to make seitan - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 10-16-2003, 12:30 PM
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HI!



I have been using seitan in stir frys recently, I really like the taste and texture. The only problem was it was kind of expensive to buy pre packaged so i thought i would try to make my own. Well it looks like my attempt was mostly good but the seitan came out VERY soft. I followed the instructions on the back of the box. Is there something i can do to harden it up a little bit to be like the stuff i bought pre packaged before? thanks
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#2 Old 10-16-2003, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by bigdufstuff View Post

HI!



I have been using seitan in stir frys recently, I really like the taste and texture. The only problem was it was kind of expensive to buy pre packaged so i thought i would try to make my own. Well it looks like my attempt was mostly good but the seitan came out VERY soft. I followed the instructions on the back of the box. Is there something i can do to harden it up a little bit to be like the stuff i bought pre packaged before? thanks





I boiled mine in broth for 15 minutes, it gives it a "meatier" texture. I'm going home for lunch. I'll post my recipe which yields a very convincing Seitan, if you wanna compare notes.



Also, you may not have rinsed it long enough. The leftover gluton residue will make it soft. Making this stuff takes practice!
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#3 Old 10-16-2003, 01:12 PM
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So this is actually about cooking seitan and not actually making it.
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#4 Old 10-16-2003, 01:36 PM
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yeah cooking it, sorry. The stuff i had was "vital wheat gluten", i added water, then cut it, then simmered it in water for an hour. thats exactly what the back of the box told me to do.
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#5 Old 10-16-2003, 03:02 PM
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Hello! This is the original recipe. http://ohoh.essortment.com/whatisseitan_rkgb.htm





It's a rather time consuming process, but honestly worth it and cost effective.



Here's my adaptation...



Seitan

6 cups of high gluten flour + 1(or 2) cups of regular unbleached flour for flouring a board or table.

3 cups of water



Stock for boiling

1/2 cup of low sodium tamari

2 Tablespoons of powdered vegetarian "chicken" broth*

1t of powdered ginger

3 quarts of water





In a large bowl mix the gluton flour and water with a wooden spoon or fork until it becomes medium stiff (like pizza dough)



Turn the dough onto a lightly floured surface (tabletop or kitchen counter is splendid) Knead the dough for 10-15 minutes. Add more flour if the dough seems sticky. If the dough seems to dry add a little water. The dough will feel like and earlobe. Place the freshly kneaded dough into a bowl of cold water let rest for 10 minutes. **



Time to make the stock! Bring 3 quarts of water to a boil. Add the broth, tamari and ginger. Simmer for 15 minutes. Remove from heat allow to cool completely.



While the stock is cooling... Here comes the fun part, washing the dough. Start with warm (think, gentle bath water) Hold the ball of dough under running water. Routinely squeeze and knead the dough. (I keep a large bowl handy to squeeze the dough in) If pieces fall apart, grab it and stick it back together.



The rinseing water will look "milky" after about 5 minutes change the rinsing water to cold. Continue to knead for 10-15 more minutes. (You will have great bi ceps by the time you finish, I swear! ) Keep kneading and squeazing, the water should start to become clearer. The liquid oozing from the doughball should be less cloudy and more transparent. The ball will be much smaller than what you started with.



Place the rinsed ball in an empty bowl and let it rest for a few minutes. ( about 5) Give it a final rinse in very cold water. It should feel stiff, it will refuse to take any shape.





Cooking step 1

Bring 3 quarts of water to a boil, place the seitan ball in the water. Boil for 30-45 minutes, or until it floats to the surface. Drain and cut into pieces. (steaks, chunks, crumbles or leave it whole if you want to use it as a "roast")



Cooking step 2

Place the cut (or whole) seitan into the stock, bring to a boil then lower to a simmer. Simmer 45 minutes (if cut in small pieces) or 1 1/2 to 2 hours (for larger pieces or a whole "roast")



Drain the seitan, reserving some of the stock. Store in the refridgerator immersed in reserved stock. This recipe also freezes well. If you plan to freeze, flash freeze the pieces (cutlets or whole "roast") on a cookie sheet. When frozen place in freezer paper then wrap in plastic. If you have pieces (crumbles) transfer into a freezer bag.



*Any low sodium powdered vegetarian boullion works. Cubed boullion, 2 cubes = roughly 2 tablespoons powdered.



** To knead the dough I use a Kitchen Aid stand mixer, I use the dough hook on speed 2 and knead for 10 minutes. I will stop and sprinkle with flour if the mixture looks wet and/or sticky.
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#6 Old 10-16-2003, 03:41 PM
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Thanks for the reply I'll give that recipe a go next time i try to make it.
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#7 Old 10-16-2003, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
yeah cooking it, sorry. The stuff i had was "vital wheat gluten", i added water, then cut it, then simmered it in water for an hour. thats exactly what the back of the box told me to do.



I think the problem is, the recipe on the box has you cooking it for way waytoo long. If the gluten is cut into bite sized pieces, you only need to boil it for 5 minutes.



Making seitan using regular flour is masochistic and totally unnecessary. If you have vital wheat gluten you can skip all that crazy washing and get right to the flavoring and cooking.

******************************************

Basic Seitan

(This recipe makes a whole bunch, so you can freeze some of it for later)

2 1/2 cups pure gluten powder(vital wheat gluten)

2 cups cold water



To make the raw gluten, mix together the gluten flour and water. Mix until it forms a smooth, firm dough. Knead briefly. Cut the dough into 96 fairly equal pieces. Keep your hands wet when you handle the dough.



Drop the chunks (in about 4 batches) into a large pot of boiling water, and boil for 5 minutes. Scoop out with a slotted spoon and drain in a colander.



You can also bake or deep-fry the chunks.

******************************************



My favorite seitan for stir-frying is from Authentic Chinese Cuisine by Bryanna Clark Grogan. The above recipe is also from that book. This recipe seems a bit long, but it's actually fairly simple, it just has a couple of different steps.



Chinese-Style "Beefy" Seitan



Broth:

1 cup cold water

2 tablespoons dark or mushroom soy sauce

2 tablespoons ketchup

2 teaspoons Marmite, yeast extract, or dark miso mixed with 1/2 cup hot water until dissolved

1/4 teaspoon garlic granules

1/4 teaspoon onion powder

Optional: 2 teaspoons Kitchen Bouquet or other gravy browner



1 1/4 cups pure gluten powder



Additional Ingredients:

1 tablespoon light soy sauce

1 tablespoon dry sherry

1 tablespoon roasted sesame oil



Mix the broth ingredients together. In a small bowl, mix the gluten powder with 1 cup of the broth. Stir until a dough forms. Roll the dough into a "log" and cut it into 48 more or less equal-size slices or chunks.



Mix the remaining broth with 1/2 cup water and the additional soy sauce and sherry in a medium saucepan. Bring to a boil. Drop in 12 pieces of gluten. Boil for 4 minutes, then remove them with a slotted spoon to a sieve or colander placed over a bowl. Add 1/2 cup more water to the pot and let it come to a boil again, then drop in 12 more pieces, and boil for 4 minutes. Repeat this 2 more times until all the gluten is cooked, adding more water, plus any broth that has dripped into the bowl back to the pot. You may have to add more that 1/2 cup of water the last time. Just make sure the gluten pieces are more or less covered with liquid while they cook.



When all the gluten is cooked, heat the sesame oil in a large, heavy skillet, and add the gluten pieces along with the remaining broth. Cover and cook over medium-low heat for about 20 minutes, or until all the broth is absorbed and the gluten is firm. you may have to add a splash of water from time to time. Stir frequently as it cooks.
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#8 Old 10-16-2003, 03:48 PM
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ive never had this stuff, can you just buy it in hfs's??? ive not seen it. what section would it be in?

‎"I just think there's something in being lost. I never feel lost. I just think, 'Oh. I've taken a diversion'." ~ Karl Pilkington
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#9 Old 10-16-2003, 04:04 PM
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You can buy Seitan at the HFS, already formed. It's always placed in the refridgerated section next to the tofu. Sometimes you can find it frozen too. (AKA "wheat meat")



If you're feeling sassy and want to make your own, high gluten flour is easily obtained at either a regular grocery store or a HFS. I am able to obtain high gluten flour in bulk at the HFS.





Jessb- that recipe sounds divine!
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#10 Old 10-16-2003, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyandbunny View Post

You can buy Seitan at the HFS, already formed. It's always placed in the refridgerated section next to the tofu. Sometimes you can find it frozen too. (AKA "wheat meat")



If you're feeling sassy and want to make your own, high gluten flour is easily obtained at either a regular grocery store or a HFS. I am able to obtain high gluten flour in bulk at the HFS.





Jessb- that recipe sounds divine!



yeah like i said up above i found it premade and it was very good, just a little expensive, so i figured i could save some cash if i made it on my own, that is why i bought the gluten.
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#11 Old 10-16-2003, 05:43 PM
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cool, i will check it out today, thx monkeyandbunny.

‎"I just think there's something in being lost. I never feel lost. I just think, 'Oh. I've taken a diversion'." ~ Karl Pilkington
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#12 Old 10-16-2003, 06:41 PM
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**this is regarding making seitan itself**



I agree that making Seitan from regular (or high gluten bread flour) is a waste of time (not to mention all that water for rinsing). I use Vital Wheat Gluten.



I usually don't boil my wheat gluten "dough" (though sometimes I do - if that type of texture is needed).



After mixing it (with spices etc. in the dough) I let it rest then flatten it out (like a pizza crust kind of) onto a cookie sheet or pizza pan and bake it. Half way through I prick it all over with a fork and bake until it's finished. Then I take it out of the oven and set it to cool - COVERED. I like the way it comes out this way (ymmv)
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#13 Old 10-16-2003, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvmarie View Post

**this is regarding making seitan itself**



I agree that making Seitan from regular (or high gluten bread flour) is a waste of time (not to mention all that water for rinsing). I use Vital Wheat Gluten.



I usually don't boil my wheat gluten "dough" (though sometimes I do - if that type of texture is needed).



After mixing it (with spices etc. in the dough) I let it rest then flatten it out (like a pizza crust kind of) onto a cookie sheet or pizza pan and bake it. Half way through I prick it all over with a fork and bake until it's finished. Then I take it out of the oven and set it to cool - COVERED. I like the way it comes out this way (ymmv)





what is the difference between vital wheat gluten and regular? i bought the vital, was this the better choice?
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#14 Old 10-17-2003, 03:22 AM
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>>3 quartz of water

>>



isn't quartz crystaline?
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#15 Old 10-17-2003, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ebola View Post

>>3 quartz of water

>>



isn't quartz crystaline?





Ooops! I made a boo boo or should that be a ? It makes the water nice and crunchy!
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#16 Old 10-18-2003, 04:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdufstuff View Post

what is the difference between vital wheat gluten and regular? i bought the vital, was this the better choice?



Wheat Gluten Flour = Vital Wheat Gluten

(high gluten flour is different though - this is basically bread flour)
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#17 Old 11-03-2003, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvmarie View Post

After mixing it (with spices etc. in the dough) I let it rest then flatten it out (like a pizza crust kind of) onto a cookie sheet or pizza pan and bake it. Half way through I prick it all over with a fork and bake until it's finished. Then I take it out of the oven and set it to cool - COVERED. I like the way it comes out this way (ymmv)



I just made seitan for the first time last night using the vital wheat gluten and boiling it in broth. I would like the seitan to turn out firmer and thinner, so I think baking might be a good idea.



Dvmarie, how long do you bake the seitan and at what temperature? The recipes I have call for you to keep the seitan in a liquid when storing it. After you bake the seitan, do you have to store the unused portion in broth? What methods of reheating do you use after baking it?



Thank you in advance for the tips!
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#18 Old 11-03-2003, 08:39 PM
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I've tried different temps/times, but doing it at 325F for about 45 minutes works good (prick it half way through).

When done set on the counter and cover with a bowl - leave for maybe 20-30 minutes (makes a difference).



I don't store mine in the fridge, so I don't know if you'd have to keep it in broth. I use some right away - and store the rest in the freezer. I buzz it in the food processor to make ground Seitan - then store it in serving size zip lock freezer bags. Sometimes I cube up some (but my daughter won't eat it cubed, so I don't do that too much).



How did your first batch come out Artichoke47?
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#19 Old 11-04-2003, 08:19 AM
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Thank you, dvmarie! I will try that method next time.



My first batch tasted good, but I didn't like the fact that it was a little juicy/soggy. I want the seitan to come out firmer for texture and so that it is easier to slice.
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#20 Old 11-04-2003, 11:03 AM
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Maybe I'll even try to bake some of the seitan that I already have and see how it turns out. If not, there's always more in the freezer!
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