Why do some cultures hate onion and garlic - Page 3 - VeggieBoards
Forum Jump: 
 111Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#61 Old 02-15-2016, 10:33 AM
Ankle Biter
 
Poppy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Central Virginia, USA
Posts: 9,333
When I decided to try acupuncture, I truly did not believe it would work. I was very skeptical. I had tummy issues with Nasids and was contemplating cortisone shots. Then a friend had a cortisone shot in her back and it triggered an unexpected auto-immune response - plaque psoriasis, which she may have to deal with for life. Once she told me about her reaction, I went to the arthritis foundation and found that not only do they support but they encourage patients to try acupuncture because it relieves symptoms in a majority of those who try it. So I tried it. And I first thought it didn't work. It wasn't until 24 to 48 hours after my session that I started to think "son of a gun, my hands feel better." And they've continued to feel better for the last four weeks. So should I stop and get shots, which, according to the Mayo Clinic, may relieve pain and often have serious side effects which limit the number of times you can get them, or should I just keep pretending I'm feeling better and stick with a gradually decreasing use of acupuncture, which had virtually no side effects? Hmmmmm...
LedBoots likes this.

Last edited by Poppy; 02-15-2016 at 10:39 AM.
Poppy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#62 Old 02-15-2016, 10:49 AM
Tom
Veggie Regular
 
Tom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 5,205
I know I've had Chinese food with garlic and/or onions, but that was here in the United States so I don't know if the recipe was traditionally Chinese or something that was Westernized. I had heard that some Hindus avoid onion and garlic for the reasons mentioned above, and that they sometimes use asafoetida(sp?) instead.

Myself, I'd have to see some REALLY compelling evidence that eating alliums would do me harm before I would give them up. I do avoid many foods because I wish to avoid harming animals, and avoid or at least limit others out of concern for my own health: (Type 2 Diabetes on my Dad's side of the family... cardiovascular disease on my Mom's...'nuff said!) But no more garlic would be a problem.

Peasant (1963-1972) and Fluffy (1970s?-1982- I think of you as 'Ambrose' now)- Your spirits outshone some humans I have known. Be happy forever.
Tom is offline  
#63 Old 02-15-2016, 10:58 AM
Super Moderator
 
no whey jose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: West Sussex, UK
Posts: 2,671
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poppy View Post
When I decided to try acupuncture, I truly did not believe it would work. I was very skeptical. I had tummy issues with Nasids and was contemplating cortisone shots. Then a friend had a cortisone shot in her back and it triggered an unexpected auto-immune response - plaque psoriasis, which she may have to deal with for life. Once she told me about her reaction, I went to the arthritis foundation and found that not only do they support but they encourage patients to try acupuncture because it relieves symptoms in a majority of those who try it. So I tried it. And I first thought it didn't work. It wasn't until 24 to 48 hours after my session that I started to think "son of a gun, my hands feel better." And they've continued to feel better for the last four weeks. So should I stop and get shots, which, according to the Mayo Clinic, may relieve pain and often have serious side effects which limit the number of times you can get them, or should I just keep pretending I'm feeling better and stick with a gradually decreasing use of acupuncture, which had virtually no side effects? Hmmmmm...
You're responding defensively. If you believe that acupuncture benefits you, then get acupuncture. I haven't said a word about what you "should" do. What I've said-- and what I stand by, what your anecdotal evidence cannot change-- is that there is no compelling evidence that acupuncture has any benefit beyond the placebo effect. We've also established that the placebo effect is surprisingly effective at relieving pain symptoms-- so effective, in fact, that subjects who know they've been given a placebo still report a reduction in pain. This is a documented reality. If you're benefiting from it, go for it. Enjoy it, but understand that your experience doesn't legitimize the practice.
TailFin and Crouton like this.
no whey jose is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#64 Old 02-15-2016, 12:33 PM
...
 
Blobbenstein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 3,936
Quote:
Originally Posted by no whey jose View Post
Actually, we can. That's the only reasonable thing to do. We can certainly hypothesize about things we don't yet know. We can use the knowledge we have to determine what is likely to be true, what's probable. Then we can take our hypotheses and test them. That's how we learn, that's how we determine truth from fiction. Without this method, what means do we have to know what to believe and what to disregard?

There are a million unlikely claims out there, from ghosts to telepathy to astrology. It would be lunacy to assume they're all true. It's telling that whenever a belief in pseudoscience is questioned, believers offer criticisms of knowledge and science rather than evidence that their claims are accurate.
I personally believe all sorts of things that science will probably never explain. I think the belief that all of reality is understandable by science, is a belief in itself; a belief no different to other beliefs. There is no way to prove it, and I believe it probably isn't true.

Even things like the big bang will always remain theory, most likely, as even if we developed a time machine to go back there, it wouldn't survive the temperatures...some thing will most likely always remain outside science's grasp.
LedBoots likes this.


Last edited by Blobbenstein; 02-15-2016 at 12:40 PM.
Blobbenstein is offline  
#65 Old 02-15-2016, 01:01 PM
Not such a Beginner ;)
 
LedBoots's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,396
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blobbenstein View Post
I personally believe all sorts of things that science will probably never explain. I think the belief that all of reality is understandable by science, is a belief in itself; a belief no different to other beliefs. There is no way to prove it, and I believe it probably isn't true.

Even things like the big bang will always remain theory, most likely, as even if we developed a time machine to go back there, it wouldn't survive the temperatures...some thing will most likely always remain outside science's grasp.
Me too, Blobbenstein. I've seen too many unexplained phenomena to trust that science (or anything else) can explain everything. Ask a surgeon, or an obstetrician. Some unexplained stuff, for sure! Mets cancer disappearing overnight, babies born deceased and premie and then begin to breathe on their own, etc. One cardiologist I know is doing a study on patients that die and then are revived because so many of them told him the same story.
Poppy and Blobbenstein like this.
LedBoots is offline  
#66 Old 02-15-2016, 01:46 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Crouton's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by LedBoots View Post
I don't think western medicine is very nice to animals, either. And I'm a nurse.
This is true, Western medicine does some horrible animal testing, but so does China's modern medicine, as well as their horrific practices for "traditional" medicine. But they also go to the length of hunting down near-extinct animals for their medicine, something you know would be illegal in all Western countries.

http://www.onegreenplanet.org/animal...sian-medicine/

http://www.animal-rights-action.com/...medicines.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/sangita...b_3081813.html

And while the rest of the world is gradually trying to rule out testing for things like cosmetics, China is doing it more than ever. I remember once a few years ago a brand of cruelty-free body products said they couldn't ship and sell their products in China, because China is one of the only countries with a rule that all imported products must be tested on animals before they can be sold there. China has a lot of extremes when it comes to animal cruelty.
TailFin and no whey jose like this.
Crouton is offline  
#67 Old 02-15-2016, 02:37 PM
Super Moderator
 
no whey jose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: West Sussex, UK
Posts: 2,671
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blobbenstein View Post
I personally believe all sorts of things that science will probably never explain. I think the belief that all of reality is understandable by science, is a belief in itself; a belief no different to other beliefs. There is no way to prove it, and I believe it probably isn't true.
Even things like the big bang will always remain theory, most likely, as even if we developed a time machine to go back there, it wouldn't survive the temperatures...some thing will most likely always remain outside science's grasp.
This isn't a sound argument for a belief in something which can be tested (such as acupuncture) and which has failed to produce a satisfactory result. You can certainly believe it if you like, but it isn't a logical stance. For instance, if I tell you that my brother has powers of remote viewing, that's something you can test fairly easily by putting him in a room by himself and having him read words off a card in another room. If he does as well as someone who isn't psychic at guessing the words, then he clearly doesn't have special powers. If you point this out to me and I say something vague like "Reality isn't understandable by science and you can't prove it is," then I'm not making a very strong case. The question isn't whether we'll ever be able to learn everything about the universe; the question is whether or not my brother has psychic powers. If you need to resort to disparaging the very nature of knowledge and reality when a claim of yours is scrutinized, then it can't be a claim with any solid evidence behind it. Do you see what I mean?

The Big Bang Theory isn't "just" a theory. It's the best cosmological model we can build based on the information we have, and it's supported by strong evidence. In scientific terms, a "theory" isn't simply an unfounded idea. It's rigorously tested, examined, and scrutinized to be sure that it's the most likely explanation and that it fits with everything we currently know about the universe.
TailFin likes this.
no whey jose is offline  
#68 Old 02-15-2016, 02:50 PM
...
 
Blobbenstein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 3,936
But you can't go back and test the big bang can you? Some things will always be beyond the realm of science, I think....like the supernatural..

Anyway, I'm not really a believer in acupuncture, I'm just talking generally about the limits of science.
LedBoots and Thalassa4 like this.

Blobbenstein is offline  
#69 Old 02-15-2016, 03:01 PM
Veggie Recycler
 
Thalassa4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 556
Onions and garlic are natural anti-viral and anti-biotic. They're quite good for you, as well as being a cheap way to add flavor and nutrients to cooking. I'm fairly certain I've eaten onions in Chinese food, don't know if garlic was involved.

Thanks for all the information in this thread. I had no idea some people had religious reasons for avoiding vegetables. I think the Buddha story was probably exaggerated and misinterpreted just like a lot of Christians twist scripture to justify meat eating.
Crouton likes this.
Thalassa4 is offline  
#70 Old 02-15-2016, 03:04 PM
...
 
Blobbenstein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 3,936
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thalassa4 View Post
I think the Buddha story was probably exaggerated and misinterpreted just like a lot of Christians twist scripture to justify meat eating.
yea, who in their right mind would eat a whole bowl of garlic on its own..?
Thalassa4 likes this.

Blobbenstein is offline  
#71 Old 02-15-2016, 03:14 PM
Super Moderator
 
no whey jose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: West Sussex, UK
Posts: 2,671
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blobbenstein View Post
But you can't go back and test the big bang can you? Some things will always be beyond the realm of science, I think....like the supernatural..

Anyway, I'm not really a believer in acupuncture, I'm just talking generally about the limits of science.
We know about the Big Bang because we can observe the universe around us. When we look at things like galaxies, we can tell not only how far away they are from us in space, but in time, because it takes time for light to reach us. We have telescopes which are capable of viewing light from the beginning of the universe. It's truly awe-inspiring, and scientists across centuries have devoted their lives to this, to checking and double checking, scrutinizing, questioning, making absolutely sure that their conclusions are as accurate as humanly possible. That's why it's so frustrating to hear people speak of incredible scientific discoveries as though they were of equal value to untested superstitions. You cast doubt on something like The Big Bang Theory, an idea which is based on observable phenomena and has been scrutinized to death, only to say with complete conviction that you believe in the supernatural. It's absolutely baffling to me, to be honest!
TailFin likes this.
no whey jose is offline  
#72 Old 02-15-2016, 03:21 PM
...
 
Blobbenstein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 3,936
Quote:
Originally Posted by no whey jose View Post
We know about the Big Bang because we can observe the universe around us. When we look at things like galaxies, we can tell not only how far away they are from us in space, but in time, because it takes time for light to reach us. We have telescopes which are capable of viewing light from the beginning of the universe. It's truly awe-inspiring, and scientists across centuries have devoted their lives to this, to checking and double checking, scrutinizing, questioning, making absolutely sure that their conclusions are as accurate as humanly possible. That's why it's so frustrating to hear people speak of incredible scientific discoveries as though they were of equal value to untested superstitions. You cast doubt on something like The Big Bang Theory, an idea which is based on observable phenomena and has been scrutinized to death, only to say with complete conviction that you believe in the supernatural. It's absolutely baffling to me, to be honest!

what has the big bang got to do with my belief in the supernatural..?

Oh, I think the big bang did happen, well we believe the universe is expanding, and so it started off smaller, but what the big bang actually was, or was caused by, we still don't really have a clue...we can't go back and actually take measurements, and measurements and testing, are a big part of science.

We still have no idea what shape the universe is; whether it is a closed system, or infinite....maybe we'll never know.
LedBoots likes this.

Blobbenstein is offline  
#73 Old 02-15-2016, 03:28 PM
Super Moderator
 
no whey jose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: West Sussex, UK
Posts: 2,671
Ok, Wikipedia has a "simple English" version which attempts to explain complicated ideas in laymen's terms, which is helpful because cosmology is really, really complicated.

Quote:
Scientists base the Big Bang theory on many different observations. The most important is the redshift of very far away galaxies. Redshift is the Doppler Effect occurring in light. When an object moves away from earth, it looks reddish because the movement stretches the wavelength. The reddish color occurs because red is the lowest wavelength on the visible spectrum. The more redshift there is, the faster the object is moving away. By measuring the redshift, scientists proved that the universe is expanding and can even work out how fast the object is moving. With precise observation and measurements, scientists believe that universe was a singularity approximately 13.8 billion years ago. Because most things become colder as they expand, the universe is assumed to have been very hot when it started.[3]

Other observations that support the Big Bang theory are the amounts of chemical elementsin the universe. Amounts of hydrogen, helium, and lithium seem to agree with the theory of the Big Bang. Scientists also have found "cosmic microwaves background radiation". This radiation is known as radio waves, and they are everywhere in the universe. Even so, it is now very weak and cold, but a long time ago it was very strong and very hot.[1]
The article goes on to explain that what we DON'T know is whether the Big Bang was the beginning of time itself, or if perhaps there was another universe before our universe. It is theoretically possible that our universe exists inside a black hole which itself exists inside yet another universe-- so, yes, there are things that we don't yet know, but we undressed enough to know what is plausible, what fits with the laws which govern the universe, and what doesn't. By the same token, we know enough about biology to know that there is no such thing as a mystical force which causes physical ailments when its flow is disturbed. If you like, you can frame it in terms of imagination and the human psyche, turn it into a poetic metaphor, but it isn't "real" in the same way that a pancreas or a blood vessel is real.
TailFin and Crouton like this.
no whey jose is offline  
#74 Old 02-15-2016, 03:33 PM
...
 
Blobbenstein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 3,936
you might have heard of dark matter, NWJ.....I think it is supposed to compose something like 90% of the mass of the Universe, and yet they still have little clue what it is.

They might get there, but we should always be wary of thinking we got it all sussed.
LedBoots likes this.

Blobbenstein is offline  
#75 Old 02-15-2016, 04:09 PM
Super Moderator
 
silva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 8,955
silva is offline  
#76 Old 02-15-2016, 04:15 PM
Super Moderator
 
no whey jose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: West Sussex, UK
Posts: 2,671
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blobbenstein View Post
you might have heard of dark matter, NWJ.....I think it is supposed to compose something like 90% of the mass of the Universe, and yet they still have little clue what it is.

They might get there, but we should always be wary of thinking we got it all sussed.
We've been studying dark matter since the 1930s and we learn more about it with each passing decade. Trusting in science isn't about "thinking we got it all sussed." In fact, it's the exact opposite: it's being open to exploration, subjecting every new piece of information to rigorous scrutiny, and tweaking our larger picture of the universe to accommodate new information. Myth and superstition, on the other hand, remain stagnant. You can't justify a belief in something for which there is no compelling evidence by pointing out that scientists don't yet know everything there is no know about the universe. It doesn't make your case any stronger. If it did, we would have to treat EVERY idea, no matter how ludicrous, as a plausible idea on par with every other idea. Can you see how that's problematic? We would have to treat the idea that there are invisible burritos inside each of our skin cells, which I've just made up, as an idea of equal value to the concept of the existence of dark matter-- but it isn't of equal value, because there is compelling, observable evidence which supports the existence of dark matter, whereas the burrito thing is something ridiculous that I've just invented and which doesn't even make any sense. If we care about the truth-- if learning about reality is of any value to us-- then we need to be critical and thorough in our exploration of the universe.
no whey jose is offline  
#77 Old 02-15-2016, 04:21 PM
...
 
Blobbenstein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 3,936
well, a lot of people have experience with the supernatural....it is evidence for them personally. It wouldn't be scientific of them to dismiss their experience. I think you can apply scientific thinking to the supernatural, even though I don't think science can really study it.

I for example have had clairvoyant dreams; and no, they weren't just coincidence. It isn't scientific to just dismiss experiences as coincidence over and over.

Blobbenstein is offline  
#78 Old 02-15-2016, 04:35 PM
Super Moderator
 
no whey jose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: West Sussex, UK
Posts: 2,671
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blobbenstein View Post
well, a lot of people have experience with the supernatural....it is evidence for them personally. It wouldn't be scientific of them to dismiss their experience. I think you can apply scientific thinking to the supernatural, even though I don't think science can really study it.

I for example have had clairvoyant dreams; and no, they weren't just coincidence. It isn't scientific to just dismiss experiences as coincidence over and over.
Personal experiences qualify as anecdotal evidence, which is notoriously unreliable because of the effect of cognitive bias on memory and interpretation. We tend to see patterns where none exist and to assign meaning to inconsequential events. For instance, it's normal for us to assume that if one event happens after another, then the second event was caused by the first-- even if, in reality, the two are unrelated. We also tend to more vividly remember those events which reinforce our superstitions,while conveniently forgetting or dismissing those events which run contrary to what we already believe. Human memory is faulty and our perceptions are unreliable. That's why empirical evidence is needed to confirm the validity of any given claim.
no whey jose is offline  
#79 Old 02-15-2016, 04:38 PM
...
 
Blobbenstein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 3,936
Quote:
Originally Posted by no whey jose View Post
Personal experiences qualify as anecdotal evidence,
not to the person who experiences it.
If you walk down the street and are passed by a fireengine, that is evidence to you...later that day you might tell someone about that, and then it becomes anecdotal.

Blobbenstein is offline  
#80 Old 02-15-2016, 05:28 PM
Beginner
 
Lipps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by no whey jose View Post
Don't Jains refrain from eating root vegetables because harvesting them kills the plant? I could be misremembering this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shallot View Post
Yes - onions and garlics are roots or bulbs to be exact. If you eat the bulb or root of a plant you inevitably kill it.
It's a little more complicated than this. In ancient texts such as the Rigveda and Upanishads, the epic poems of the Mahabharata and Ramayana one can read about the 3 Gunas, or three "qualities" if you prefer.

The three Gunas rule over all aspects of life, food, behavior, conditions, etc..

In Jainism, one uses the Sattva as a guide to know what one can eat.

Sattvic foods are pure and uplifting. They promote balance and harmony within your body and mind. Sattva is always good

Rajasic foods promote passion, egoism, and energy. Raja can be good, bad, or neutral.

Tamasic foods promote lethargy, imbalance, chaos, delusions, negative feelings in general.
Tamas is always bad.

There are lists you can find on the WWW categorizing various foods among the 3 gunas. Most are fairly accurate. If you wish you can pick up a copy of the Bhagavad Gita (a part of the Mahabharata) and see a more accurate list.

Meat, eggs, fish, alcohol, onions, and garlic are all considered tamasic.

Note, Jains also have separate texts that contradict some food items that are considered sattvic by Hindus. For example, Honey and milk are considered sattvic by the Rigveda, but in the Purushartha Siddhyupaya, one of many Jain texts, honey and milk are strictly forbidden as it is considered violence toward honeybees and cows.
LedBoots and no whey jose like this.

The symbol of the race ought to be a human being carrying an ax, for every human being has one concealed about him somewhere, and is always seeking the opportunity to grind it.
- Mark Twain, a Biography
Lipps is offline  
#81 Old 02-16-2016, 02:39 AM
Super Moderator
 
no whey jose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: West Sussex, UK
Posts: 2,671
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blobbenstein View Post
not to the person who experiences it.
If you walk down the street and are passed by a fireengine, that is evidence to you...later that day you might tell someone about that, and then it becomes anecdotal.
That's not how evidence works. Your perception is unreliable. Perhaps it wasn't actually a fire engine, but a police car. You heard the siren, saw a flash of red, and made an erroneous assumption. Or perhaps, when telling the story to your friend, you misidentified the direction in which the fire truck was heading or the number of firemen on board. Maybe you see on the news later that your old workplace was on fire and you assume that the truck you saw was responding to it, so from that point on you always include that in your story even though you haven't verified that it's true. Anecdotal evidence does not hold the same weight as empirical evidence even when the person in question swears up and down that what he is saying is accurate, not because he's suspected of lying but because there are a great many psychological mechanisms at work which can make us believe things that aren't true.
no whey jose is offline  
#82 Old 02-16-2016, 04:44 AM
Newbie
 
ladyfey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 62
Nothing to do with thinking garlic and onion are wrong, but I avoid garlic because of the way it makes my mother smell. Something about her body chemistry doesn't react well with it. She doesn't smell like garlic, but develops a really pungent body odor. I never want to smell like that!
ladyfey is offline  
#83 Old 02-16-2016, 04:56 AM
...
 
Blobbenstein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 3,936
Quote:
Originally Posted by no whey jose View Post
That's not how evidence works. Your perception is unreliable. Perhaps it wasn't actually a fire engine, but a police car. You heard the siren, saw a flash of red, and made an erroneous assumption. Or perhaps, when telling the story to your friend, you misidentified the direction in which the fire truck was heading or the number of firemen on board. Maybe you see on the news later that your old workplace was on fire and you assume that the truck you saw was responding to it, so from that point on you always include that in your story even though you haven't verified that it's true. Anecdotal evidence does not hold the same weight as empirical evidence even when the person in question swears up and down that what he is saying is accurate, not because he's suspected of lying but because there are a great many psychological mechanisms at work which can make us believe things that aren't true.
life isn't all about science, and scientifically valid evidence. People's personal experience trumps that, for a lot of things.

Even scientific evidence is only anecdotal evidence at root; say when a scientist looks into a microscope, he sees with his eyes, and interprets with his mind....without mind you have no science; machines can't close the loop on their own.
LedBoots likes this.

Blobbenstein is offline  
#84 Old 02-16-2016, 06:17 AM
Veggie Regular
 
TailFin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: East Coast, USA
Posts: 498
So much discussion since I was last on...

That said, I'm going to make a few points from my perspective based on what's been posted so far.

1. Do we need to develop a 'time machine' to understand the Big Bang? It would be helpful, but it wouldn't be used for science, anyways. (It'd be used for war, what else?) That said, a telescope is a time machine. Astronomers are the only ones that can go back in time. When something is one light year away, it takes light one year to reach us. To put it into perspective, think of the immense distance between the earth and the sun. It has taken light around 8 minutes and 20 seconds to reach us. In other words, we're seeing the sun as it was 8+ minutes ago. When we use a telescope or binoculars and look at the Orion Nebula, we're seeing it how it was over 1,300 years ago. That's how long it took light to reach us. We know this, because we can measure the speed of light. That is a known.

2. If someone sees a fire engine while walking down the street, no one has a reason to distrust you, because fire engines are real. If you say you saw a UFO in the air, we can start from the beginning--you saw an unidentified flying object. It could have been a strange cloud formation, or light reflecting off a jet, or [insert any possibility]. You don't know what you saw; it was unidentified. You didn't see aliens, or [insert belief here]. You don't know what you saw. Yes, it could have been aliens, but it could have also been a simple cloud. Occam's razor can be applied: among competing hypotheses, the one with the least amount of assumptions should be chosen. Was it aliens flying across the galaxy to spy on us or was it a cloud? It was a cloud.

When we don't understand something, we're too quick to run to the supernatural. That said, science can absolutely have respect for religion. This is one of my favorite quotes from my favorite person (Carl Sagan, haha):

Quote:
We are lost in a great darkness, and there is no one to send out a search party. Given so harsh a reality, of course we’re tempted to shut our eyes and pretend that we’re safe and snug at home… If it takes a little myth and ritual to get us through a night that seems endless, who among us cannot sympathize and understand. We long to be here for a purpose, even though, despite much self-deception, none is evident. The significance of our lives and our fragile planet is then determined only by our own wisdom and courage. We are the custodians of life’s meaning.
I agree with Carl Sagan. Of course I can sympathize with wanting to believe that there is something after death; I would love to see my grandfather again. I don't have a problem with people believing what they want. But when that belief starts to inhibit society, that's when I have a problem. Scientists are not going to churches/mosques/etc knocking on their doors telling the congregations that they're wrong. So why do religious people do this with science class?

Anyways, I'm not trying to turn this into a religious debate, because I don't argue religion vs. science. Religion has zero part in science, with the exception of psychology, archeology, or the like. Some scientists are religious, yes, but they don't let it influence their studies. If they do, they're not scientists.
no whey jose likes this.
TailFin is offline  
#85 Old 02-16-2016, 06:26 AM
Veggie Regular
 
TailFin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: East Coast, USA
Posts: 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blobbenstein View Post
Even scientific evidence is only anecdotal evidence at root; say when a scientist looks into a microscope, he sees with his eyes, and interprets with his mind....without mind you have no science
I'm sorry, but this is so so so so so so so so so so so so so so wrong.

Scientific evidence is not anecdotal, because it is repeatable. I can look through a microscope and see something bizarre. At that point, yes, it's anecdotal. However, I ask 50 of my peers to look through the microscope, as well. If we all see the same thing, it's not anecdotal at that point, it's scientific evidence to support a hypothesis.

If you see a ghost, let's try to repeat it. See it again? No? That's anecdotal evidence.
Lipps and no whey jose like this.
TailFin is offline  
#86 Old 02-16-2016, 06:30 AM
...
 
Blobbenstein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 3,936
Quote:
Originally Posted by TailFin View Post
I'm sorry, but this is so so so so so so so so so so so so so so wrong.

Scientific evidence is not anecdotal, because it is repeatable. I can look through a microscope and see something bizarre. At that point, yes, it's anecdotal. However, I ask 50 of my peers to look through the microscope, as well. If we all see the same thing, it's not anecdotal at that point, it's scientific evidence to support a hypothesis.

If you see a ghost, let's try to repeat it. See it again? No? That's anecdotal evidence.

what has repeatability got to do with scientific evidence being anecdotal? It still involves people, doesn't it? People seeing things, people comparing things.....if a bunch of scientists tell some bloke what they saw, it's anecdotal.

Blobbenstein is offline  
#87 Old 02-16-2016, 06:40 AM
Veggie Regular
 
TailFin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: East Coast, USA
Posts: 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blobbenstein View Post
what has repeatability got to do with scientific evidence being anecdotal? It still involves people, doesn't it? People seeing things, people comparing things.....if a bunch of scientists tell some bloke what they saw, it's anecdotal.
You're incorrect. If it's repeatable, it's not anecdotal.

I'm not going to continue discussing the definition of anecdotal evidence vs. scientific evidence. If you want to believe your definition, please by all means join the groups of people that remain steeped in ignorance.
Lipps and no whey jose like this.
TailFin is offline  
#88 Old 02-16-2016, 06:44 AM
...
 
Blobbenstein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 3,936
oh, I'm steeped in ignorance?

People really don't like their world views being challenged.

Look science is made up of people, everything they see is personal evidence; when they write it down and pass it on it becomes anecdotal. I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm just calling a spade a spade.

I believe in science, but it has its limits. I don't want to argue against science, so perhaps we can all just drop it, and get back to the onions..
LedBoots likes this.

Blobbenstein is offline  
#89 Old 02-16-2016, 06:49 AM
Veggie Regular
 
TailFin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: East Coast, USA
Posts: 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blobbenstein View Post
perhaps we can all just drop it, and get back to the onions..
Agreed.

I love onions and garlic. I hate cutting them, but I love eating them.
Blobbenstein likes this.
TailFin is offline  
#90 Old 02-16-2016, 08:12 AM
Super Moderator
 
no whey jose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: West Sussex, UK
Posts: 2,671
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blobbenstein View Post
oh, I'm steeped in ignorance?

People really don't like their world views being challenged.

Look science is made up of people, everything they see is personal evidence; when they write it down and pass it on it becomes anecdotal. I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm just calling a spade a spade.

I believe in science, but it has its limits. I don't want to argue against science, so perhaps we can all just drop it, and get back to the onions..
Do you really think that you're "challenging people's world views" here? You're saying the same thing that's been said for hundreds of years by those who don't understand the scientific method. You're arguing against knowledge itself.

I have a genuine appreciation for the generations of scientists who have busted their butts determining truth from fiction only to have a bunch of people say, essentially, "My unfounded superstition is just as valid, so you might as well not have bothered."

I'm done, but I'll leave this here. It's a podcast on pseudoscience by Carl Sagan's successor, Neil deGrasse Tyson.
Shallot and TailFin like this.
no whey jose is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the VeggieBoards forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in


Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off