Simulated meat and fish. - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 08-21-2014, 11:41 PM
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Simulated meat and fish.

I notice a lot of vegetarians choose that dietary lifestyle because they are adverse to the killing of animals as a food source.
I also notice many of the recipes call for a simulated meat or fish dish using various products to simulate an animal product.
If people are that adverse to the killing of animals for food i dont follow how one can be ok with eating a pretend piece of meat.
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#2 Old 08-22-2014, 12:32 AM
 
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It's for vegetarians who miss the taste of meat but not the cruelty.
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#3 Old 08-22-2014, 02:26 AM
 
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I got really grossed out with eating stimulated meat at the start if it tasted too much like meat obviously it is psychological as no animals were killed to produced it. It is a good way of keeping the peace in omni and veg households also I have found. As my bf happily eats simulated meat. I don't mind it tasting like meat now. I think as long as animals are not being killed to make it then it can only be a good thing.
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#4 Old 08-22-2014, 03:01 AM
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Another thing is that alot of dishes are made with meat as a vital ingredient.

For example: How are you going to eat General Tso's chicken without some type of meat substitute? Just pour the sauce over some rice? Yuk.... No that wouldn't work.


But I will admit that the longer I'm Veg, the more turned off I am to the idea of eating something that resembles meat. Its becoming a bit disgusting.
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#5 Old 08-22-2014, 03:36 AM
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Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
I notice a lot of vegetarians choose that dietary lifestyle because they are adverse to the killing of animals as a food source.
I also notice many of the recipes call for a simulated meat or fish dish using various products to simulate an animal product.
If people are that adverse to the killing of animals for food i dont follow how one can be ok with eating a pretend piece of meat.
Hi Jambo

I suspect that most veg*ns have other reasons for going veg*n rather than because they go off the taste/texture of meat, chicken, fish etc. I was an omni for well over 40 years before going veg*n and there was no change of taste on my part. I just didn't want to be a part of the cruelty and suffering that is inherant in omnivorism. To me, simulated meat/fish meant (and it still means) "no suffering or cruelty" and that's the crtical factor. (Of course we need to also consider health implications when "converting" but that is a seperate issue.) I can understand the psychological reasons why people may go off the taste/texture of meat once they've gone veg*n but I don't see having such an aversion as a necessity. To put it simply, I don't think there's anything intrinsically wrong with the taste/texture of animal.

Talking of which, many years ago, I gave my late Mum a "chicken" slice and said to her "See, it tastes just like real chicken" to which she replied "It must be a long time since you ate real chicken Ian!"

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#6 Old 08-22-2014, 11:38 PM
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Hi Jambo

I suspect that most veg*ns have other reasons for going veg*n rather than because they go off the taste/texture of meat, chicken, fish etc. I was an omni for well over 40 years before going veg*n and there was no change of taste on my part. I just didn't want to be a part of the cruelty and suffering that is inherant in omnivorism. To me, simulated meat/fish meant (and it still means) "no suffering or cruelty" and that's the crtical factor. (Of course we need to also consider health implications when "converting" but that is a seperate issue.) I can understand the psychological reasons why people may go off the taste/texture of meat once they've gone veg*n but I don't see having such an aversion as a necessity. To put it simply, I don't think there's anything intrinsically wrong with the taste/texture of animal.

Talking of which, many years ago, I gave my late Mum a "chicken" slice and said to her "See, it tastes just like real chicken" to which she replied "It must be a long time since you ate real chicken Ian!"
Must of been a bad imitation.. My friend fed me some faux-chicken when I was omni and I had no idea until he told me.

Still a funny comment she made though.
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#7 Old 08-23-2014, 12:15 AM
 
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The chicken is scary close to the real thing. When i tried it I had to keep checking the box to be sure it wasn't real chicken!!

Last edited by spacegirl; 08-23-2014 at 08:32 PM.
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#8 Old 08-27-2014, 09:14 PM
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Veggie-meats, mock meats or whatever you call it are helpful for some omni + vegetarian families.

It's also helpful for new vegetarians and omni to try getting meatless foods. They can still call names they're always familiar with like Chicken Rice now called Veggie Chicken Rice. the drumsticks are interesting to see and it tastes good too.

However, veggie-meats are not suitable to be main course. Just decorative or for the fun of it occasionally.
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#9 Old 08-29-2014, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
I notice a lot of vegetarians choose that dietary lifestyle because they are adverse to the killing of animals as a food source.
I also notice many of the recipes call for a simulated meat or fish dish using various products to simulate an animal product.
If people are that adverse to the killing of animals for food i dont follow how one can be ok with eating a pretend piece of meat.
You crave what you've been raised on eating.
Why not think about how far removed meat products are from actual meat? Veg's don't buy slabs of imitation flesh, they have "deli slices". Like the meat based product they're seasoned, smoked, and perfect to have in a sandwich. Just like they remember. Sausage, burgers, seasoned crumbles- whether meat or plant based, they're both far from the original.
Veg'ns miss the memories of things they ate. Food is a big part of our life, hence the term "comfort foods".

Read the label-if there's no meat products in it, there's no animals killed
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#10 Old 08-29-2014, 05:43 PM
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I love meat alternatives, especially the vegan-friendly Linda McCartney products. I did love Quorn when I was just vegetarian, but obviously that contains milk and eggs, so I've had to give it up to become vegan. Saying that, they do sell a vegan burger in the USA, so I can only hope they introduce it here as well.

Oh, and I absolutely love Holland and Barrett's vegan sausage rolls and 'porkless pies' - very nice stuff!

There's no cruelty involved, and it tastes great, so I'm glad it's there to widen my diet significantly.
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#11 Old 08-29-2014, 10:23 PM
 
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I love meat alternatives, especially the vegan-friendly Linda McCartney products. I did love Quorn when I was just vegetarian, but obviously that contains milk and eggs, so I've had to give it up to become vegan. Saying that, they do sell a vegan burger in the USA, so I can only hope they introduce it here as well.

Oh, and I absolutely love Holland and Barrett's vegan sausage rolls and 'porkless pies' - very nice stuff!

There's no cruelty involved, and it tastes great, so I'm glad it's there to widen my diet significantly.
Has anyone tried frys? I have frys, linda mcartney vegan bits, and cheatin slices.

I emailed quorn asking them if they would consider going vegan because it seems odd they are not already, they are not keeping up with the pace... no reply yet...

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#12 Old 08-30-2014, 12:28 AM
 
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As an Irish woman, I was brought up on bacon, cabbage and spuds. It always was my favourite meal and I never sickened of it. I gave up meat out of compassion for animals but that didn't mean that I automatically stopped wanting my favourite meal. I eat very little in the way of meat substitutes but I will have the odd veggie sausage with spuds and gravy so that I can still indulge in my favourite meals. I do find though that I am craving these old meals less and fancy other dishes instead such as spinach and chickpea curry. I imagine that over time, I'll probably never have substitute meats but that isn't because I see anything wrong with eating a pretend sausage or pretend chicken, it isn't real meat and no animal has suffered or been used in any way to make that product, it is completely cruelty free and that is what is important.


Jambo, what are your thoughts on wearing imitation leather? I've been looking at vegan shoes lately and saw that the majority of products available are indeed imitation leather. How do you get around that? People would assume looking at your footwear that they are leather.. just curious.

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#13 Old 08-30-2014, 05:26 AM
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Has anyone tried frys? I have frys, linda mcartney vegan bits, and cheatin slices.

I emailed quorn asking them if they would consider going vegan because it seems odd they are not already, they are not keeping up with the pace... no reply yet...

I have never tried Fry's, but I would very much like to. Unfortunately, their products are currently very difficult to get hold of in the UK; none of our major supermarkets sell any of their products. However, I will contact my local health food store to see if they're able to order some in.

And yes, I've emailed Quorn twice about the same thing, and no reply for me either. However, I do have hope that they will introduce vegan products to the UK based on the fact they have in the USA.
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#14 Old 08-30-2014, 05:31 AM
 
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I have never tried Fry's, but I would very much like to. Unfortunately, their products are currently very difficult to get hold of in the UK; none of our major supermarkets sell any of their products. However, I will contact my local health food store to see if they're able to order some in.

And yes, I've emailed Quorn twice about the same thing, and no reply for me either. However, I do have hope that they will introduce vegan products to the UK based on the fact they have in the USA.
i'm in the uk ocado sell frys I get mine once a month online delivered if you pop vegan in the ocado search bar on their website they have loads of vegan stuff


It's nice isn't it when big companies reply to you... I say boooo quorn!

On another note
Ive just noticed pure has palm oil in it l... I feel an email coming on..
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#15 Old 08-30-2014, 05:42 AM
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When I read the "bacon, spuds and cabbage" I thought of how I should make tempeh, spuds and cabbage! And it's funny because tempeh is in no way an "imitation meat", yet it is the closest meat alternative, I think. Same with tofu.
Sautee tempeh in a liquid smoke, water, spice and bit of syrup and it has the taste and kinda texture like a meat product made that way has. But never could you call such old world foods "imitation". They are what they are.

What if pleather came first? After all it's a strong, weatherproof material, useful for shoes, clothes, and furniture covers. If we never used animal skins for these things we won't call it imitation, yet there's a good chance it would have been created. Same for many faux meats.
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#16 Old 08-30-2014, 06:10 AM
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Jambo, what are your thoughts on wearing imitation leather? I've been looking at vegan shoes lately and saw that the majority of products available are indeed imitation leather. How do you get around that? People would assume looking at your footwear that they are leather.. just curious.
I guess i'm one of the few who are into veganism solely for health reasons and not the cruelty to animals aspect. I have to lose weight or this diabetes is going to kill me, As for people killing animals for food? humans have been killing and eating animals for a long time and they'll continue to do so for a long time,not much i can do about it..

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#17 Old 08-30-2014, 07:43 AM
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I guess i'm one of the few who are into veganism solely for health reasons and not the cruelty to animals attitude. I have to lose weight or this diabetes is going to kill me, As for people killing animals for food? humans have been killing and eating animals for a long time and they'll continue to do so for a long time,not much i can do about it..

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Not necessarily. When you analyze the anatomy of a human body, one will begin to draw the conclusions that we are biologically designed to consume plant based foods. If the mind body and spirit are as one, then surely we were not psychologically designed to consume animal flesh. Ultimately the universe was not mistaken, humans can only fight the laws of our own nature for so long until eventually our truth will be revealed. It is clear that a movement is on the rise. Over 86% of all carbon emissions, ocean dead zones, lack of water availability are a result of the farming of animals. At a given point, vegetarianism and veganism no longer become a choice, but rather a priority that society must address.
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#18 Old 08-30-2014, 08:35 AM
 
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If people are that adverse to the killing of animals for food i dont follow how one can be ok with eating a pretend piece of meat.
I'm not following your logic. Obviously people who are against the torture and murder of animals are going to avoid consuming their flesh. Who cares in which form the plant-based alternative is? And mock products that mimic popular party foods or old favorites help ease the transition for some people.

Ideally we're supposed to "eat to live" but it's fun to eat crap every once in a while. At least a vegan's gluttony harms only themselves

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I guess i'm one of the few who are into veganism solely for health reasons and not the cruelty to animals aspect.
Then why concern yourself with the ethics of others?
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#19 Old 08-30-2014, 08:49 AM
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I guess i'm one of the few who are into veganism solely for health reasons and not the cruelty to animals aspect.
Hi jambo

Veganism is more than a diet, for instance vegans don't wear leather, silk, wool etc. So what are the health reasons for you not wearing these items? I'm not trying to be provocative by the way. I'm just trying to see the difference between you and a (vegetarian) total plant-food eater.

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#20 Old 08-30-2014, 09:19 AM
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As an Irish woman, I was brought up on bacon, cabbage and spuds. It always was my favourite meal and I never sickened of it. I gave up meat out of compassion for animals but that didn't mean that I automatically stopped wanting my favourite meal. I eat very little in the way of meat substitutes but I will have the odd veggie sausage with spuds and gravy so that I can still indulge in my favourite meals. I do find though that I am craving these old meals less and fancy other dishes instead such as spinach and chickpea curry. I imagine that over time, I'll probably never have substitute meats but that isn't because I see anything wrong with eating a pretend sausage or pretend chicken, it isn't real meat and no animal has suffered or been used in any way to make that product, it is completely cruelty free and that is what is important.


Jambo, what are your thoughts on wearing imitation leather? I've been looking at vegan shoes lately and saw that the majority of products available are indeed imitation leather. How do you get around that? People would assume looking at your footwear that they are leather.. just curious.
I have beautiful fake leather bags and shoes. If anyone says they like it, I say I love the new fake leathers, or something like that.

I'm a potato lover too, and I will put anything on a potato. Vegan chili and avocado, or hummus and diced veggies, stir fried or roasted veggies, or curried garbanzos and onions, just about anything.
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#21 Old 08-30-2014, 10:08 AM
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I guess i'm one of the few who are into veganism solely for health reasons and not the cruelty to animals aspect. I have to lose weight or this diabetes is going to kill me, As for people killing animals for food? humans have been killing and eating animals for a long time and they'll continue to do so for a long time,not much i can do about it..

http://www.artizans.com/images/previews/KRI725.pvw.jpg
"Not much I can do about it." When talking about ANYTHING is total BS. Acting like you are but one and cannot change outcomes is different than disagreeing with how animals are treated in factory farming. One is apathetic defeatism, the other is plain apathy.

Everyday animal activists make a difference in the world, every legislative session bills are introduced which will change the lives animals. Every day people fight AG-gag bills and succeed.

Not much you want to do about it, is more like it.

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#22 Old 08-30-2014, 01:08 PM
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Hi jambo

Veganism is more than a diet, for instance vegans don't wear leather, silk, wool etc. So what are the health reasons for you not wearing these items? I'm not trying to be provocative by the way. I'm just trying to see the difference between you and a (vegetarian) total plant-food eater.

Lv.
As said i'm into this lifestyle to lose weight and not to obsess about the wearing of leather or the fact that animals are killed for human consumption.i dont care.
I just thought it odd that people would obsess about the eating of animals yet find many ways to pretend to eat animals.
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#23 Old 08-30-2014, 02:17 PM
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As said i'm into this lifestyle to lose weight and not to obsess about the wearing of leather or the fact that animals are killed for human consumption.i dont care. I just thought it odd that people would obsess about the eating of animals yet find many ways to pretend to eat animals.
Yes I think we quite appreciate that you don't care. That being the case, some might consider it odd that you say you're "into veganism" when the reality is otherwise.

There's plenty of informative comments in this thread from veggie/vegan members about the not very subtle difference between "fake meat" and "real meat" and why these members are ok with eating one but not the other. That being so, I can't see any point in adding to them to try to make things clearer. (I don't think I could.)

Anyway, as frrt has so appositely asked you;

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Then why concern yourself with the ethics of others?
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#24 Old 08-30-2014, 03:36 PM
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As said i'm into this lifestyle to lose weight and not to obsess about the wearing of leather or the fact that animals are killed for human consumption.i dont care.
I just thought it odd that people would obsess about the eating of animals yet find many ways to pretend to eat animals.
MOD POST- I'm not sure what qualifies you to determine what is obsessive? One could just as easily say, your own self-preoccupation and motivation is obsessive too, and lies outside the norm of human behavior patterns. We're all entitled to our opinions, but perhaps you should review VB's posting guidelines, which prohibits the calling of names. Hurling epithets at our members is against our rules. Please refrain from it.

On a personal note, I think anyone who believes people are motivated solely by logical considerations doesn't know much about human nature.
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#25 Old 08-30-2014, 05:13 PM
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i'm in the uk ocado sell frys I get mine once a month online delivered if you pop vegan in the ocado search bar on their website they have loads of vegan stuff


It's nice isn't it when big companies reply to you... I say boooo quorn!

On another note
Ive just noticed pure has palm oil in it l... I feel an email coming on..
I have noticed that Ocado sell it, which is great. Being 16 though, it's my (vegetarian) mother who generally does grocery shopping, and she usually goes to Sainsbury's or Morrisons as opposed to shopping online, although I'll try to persuade her to start ordering from online shops that sell a wide range of vegan products.

I think I can get Fry's ordered to my local health food shop however, which is very convenient.
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#26 Old 08-30-2014, 10:46 PM
 
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I have noticed that Ocado sell it, which is great. Being 16 though, it's my (vegetarian) mother who generally does grocery shopping, and she usually goes to Sainsbury's or Morrisons as opposed to shopping online, although I'll try to persuade her to start ordering from online shops that sell a wide range of vegan products.

I think I can get Fry's ordered to my local health food shop however, which is very convenient.
Thats brilliant maybe we should all email the big super markets asking them to stock frys?

Damm it lets do it.. we need them to know we want this vegan food!

Besides vegan food a vegetarian can eat also.. so really it is best for both non meat eaters

P.s so lucky your mum is vegetarian... she might even go vegan with you one day ocado have money off the first shop too... if she needs a little persuasion I got the cheetin chicken slices too, vegan and brilliant In sandwiches etc.
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#27 Old 08-31-2014, 12:39 AM
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As said i'm into this lifestyle to lose weight and not to obsess about the wearing of leather or the fact that animals are killed for human consumption.i dont care.
I just thought it odd that people would obsess about the eating of animals yet find many ways to pretend to eat animals.
The 'vegan lifestyle' is very much about concerning yourself about the wearing of leather and the consumption of animals. Veganism is more than a diet, it's a movement that concerns itself with the rights of animals. It's no different, in a lot of ways, to someone saying "I'm a supporter of Civil Rights/LGBTQAI rights/feminism". While the diet is something a lot of people focus on and certainly anyone can adopt, veganism itself is far more wide reaching than only the diet.

Maybe a better term for what you're doing, is 'plant-based'. That doesn't denote any particular ethical leanings in regards to your diet (though I'm with Dr Melanie Joy when she says we all bring our politics to the dinner table).

I don't pretend to eat animals, when I eat faux meats. I know it's not an animal. But when I went veg, I didn't change my preferences for the tastes and textures I enjoy, I just changed my actions to align with how I felt the world should be. Most of the tastes and textures I enjoyed when I ate meat were created through cooking techniques and mixtures of herbs (or other plant-based flavouring). I've just swapped out the piece of flesh for a piece of veggie protein.

So, it's not the product that's the problem to me, it's the process that gets it there. I don't want those processes or dominant ideologies to exist. Me eating a veggie version of a fish doesn't contribute to over fishing, it doesn't mean a fish dies so I can eat it, it doesn't reinforce the idea that one animal is better to eat or more worthy of death because I like how he or she tastes, it just means I eat something that's salty.

Does that make sense?
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#28 Old 08-31-2014, 01:25 AM
 
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The 'vegan lifestyle' is very much about concerning yourself about the wearing of leather and the consumption of animals. Veganism is more than a diet, it's a movement that concerns itself with the rights of animals. It's no different, in a lot of ways, to someone saying "I'm a supporter of Civil Rights/LGBTQAI rights/feminism". While the diet is something a lot of people focus on and certainly anyone can adopt, veganism itself is far more wide reaching than only the diet.

Maybe a better term for what you're doing, is 'plant-based'. That doesn't denote any particular ethical leanings in regards to your diet (though I'm with Dr Melanie Joy when she says we all bring our politics to the dinner table).

I don't pretend to eat animals, when I eat faux meats. I know it's not an animal. But when I went veg, I didn't change my preferences for the tastes and textures I enjoy, I just changed my actions to align with how I felt the world should be. Most of the tastes and textures I enjoyed when I ate meat were created through cooking techniques and mixtures of herbs (or other plant-based flavouring). I've just swapped out the piece of flesh for a piece of veggie protein.

So, it's not the product that's the problem to me, it's the process that gets it there. I don't want those processes or dominant ideologies to exist. Me eating a veggie version of a fish doesn't contribute to over fishing, it doesn't mean a fish dies so I can eat it, it doesn't reinforce the idea that one animal is better to eat or more worthy of death because I like how he or she tastes, it just means I eat something that's salty.

Does that make sense?

Certainly does!
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#29 Old 08-31-2014, 07:07 AM
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Thats brilliant maybe we should all email the big super markets asking them to stock frys?

Damm it lets do it.. we need them to know we want this vegan food!

Besides vegan food a vegetarian can eat also.. so really it is best for both non meat eaters

P.s so lucky your mum is vegetarian... she might even go vegan with you one day ocado have money off the first shop too... if she needs a little persuasion I got the cheetin chicken slices too, vegan and brilliant In sandwiches etc.
That sounds like an excellent idea, I'll definitely join you in emailing supermarkets to make this request.

And yes, my dad is already vegan and has been since 1985, although I don't live with him. My mum is veggie and has said she plans to become vegan at some point.
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#30 Old 08-31-2014, 08:23 AM
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As said i'm into this lifestyle to lose weight and not to obsess about the wearing of leather or the fact that animals are killed for human consumption.i dont care.
I just thought it odd that people would obsess about the eating of animals yet find many ways to pretend to eat animals.
First of all, you're not following the vegan lifestyle at all. You are a strict vegetarian if you want to label yourself.

I eat things like Boca chik'n patties, Soy Chorizo, Field Roast sausage and more rarely will buy Yves Deli slices. I have NEVER eaten, not pretended to eat meat for the last four years.

The day that come across something that actually looks like a bloody piece of flesh and calls itself plant based I can definitely say I won't be interested. In the meantime, these seasoned products of soy, wheat, grains and veggies I will consume in the way I used to purchase hamburger and fried chicken.
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