Apple...how appropriate for a veggie site



Hi everyone! I am a semi-veggie who hopes I will still be welcome here on the site (I noticed someone else posted that and it didn't seem so good!)



Actually, I should say that I am a semi-vegan. I am trying to lose weight and cut presevatives/hormones/garbage out of my diet for good (not just temporarily). About 2 weeks ago I became semi-obsessed with raw foodism and veganism. Three days a week I have been following a veggie diet altho the only dairy in it is organic milk and I only drink that one of the three days- everything else is fruit and vegetables and nuts (that is kinda the raw foodie part). Occasionally I have brown rice with veggies for dinner. I feel good when I consume this diet bc I am not putting any processed garbage in my body (meat isn't good anyway but my bad stuff is anything that comes in a box- cereal, crackers, and any low fat/low sugar thing you can imagine. All chemicals.



My goal is to cut meat consumption to 2x week or less. Currently I am down to 3-4 times a week and only once a day (while I dont want to focus on my meat consuming part of diet on this board out of respect I thought it would give u all a view of my current goals).



Before I make this too long (too late), I have a question- on my veganish days, whereas I do feel happy and clean and all that jazz I have felt exceedingly weak. I am a freelancer and the other day I had to crawl into bed and sleep for 2 hours. I felt I was drowning in exhaustion. It happened ont he subway too. I ended up eating meat later which did help. Does anyone have any tips? I am slightly anemic (and that is on my normal meat eating diet)- however even when eating meat more i refused to eat red meat more than 1x a month. My friend thinks it might be a protein deficiency or iron. I am not sure but I dont want to give up the move towards more veganism/raw foods.



P.S. I avoid soy due to the fact that I have had hormonal/thyroid/cortisol issues and I think that is a good source of protein?



Thanks!

Liz

Hi VeggieLIzzie.



Welcome to our site. We are happy you are reducing the amount of meat in your diet, but please take note that this site is for vegetarians and those who are aspiring to become them. Discussing meat eating on the site is not appropriate. We are happy for you to stay and learn, but we do ask that you respect the forum guidelines (ie) actively working on quitting meat, and not discussing meat, except in the context of how to not eat it.



I think you'll find some good information here to ensure you get the nutrition you need, and hopefully, you can eliminate meat from your diet completely!



With regards to the protein issue- soy is a good source, but def. not the only one. Whole grains, nuts, seeds, beans and legumes are all very good sources and also have lots of vitamins and minerals necessary to maintain your health.

Hi Synergy:



Thanks so much for givingme a shout-out. By all means, I am trying to move towards a veggie lifestyle and I don't want to offend anyone, so I don't mean to if that's the case (just going slowly). I had wondered about my exhaustion and if this was a protein/iron/ m. withdrawl thing. Would that be best posted somewhere else? I didnt want to eat "that" the other night esp after being avegan for 3 days straight but my symptoms were kinda freaking me out.



Btw, I do eat some meat subs already. I actually love them but avoid them sometimes bc of the soy thing. Faves include: morningstar chick nuggets, boca garlic burgers, morningstar grillers and the morningstar bfast sausage. All are so much lower than fat and most/all have fibre!



Beans are most tasty! I particularly love to make black bean soup with onion, fresh cilantro, and some tomatoes (I know it sounds weird) and black pepper!



Thanks again!

It would take a good while with a nutritionally void diet to produce deficiencies. Many people transitioning to a vegetarian diet don't realize the volume of plant matter one needs to equal the same amount of calories in animal matter and tend to under eat. You need a balance of fat/protein/fiber to keep you full and energized.

Hi rabid_child:



Thanks for your feedback! I think bc I was doing vegan those days (and raw 2 of them) I must not have eaten enough fat or protein. Bc I was doing mostly raw I wouldn't eat beans so my only protein came from a few handfuls of nuts and seeds. Sample day would generally be naked juice, apple, pear, (nuts and seeds), salad, sugar snap peas (raw) and some days I would eat brown rice with veggies but on the day I felt crappy I didn't do that. I only had the juice, raw veggies and fruit and some pumpkin seeds and almonds. i will try to be more vigilant about that and make sure i have enough calories.



Thanks again,

VL

Well vegetarianism is the long haul , so maybe for a while , just eliminate what you are eating on the days that make you feel like crap . Also some pasta in the diet would help .Try and slowly wean off the meat first , just let your body reactions guide you , I don't think you are far away from becoming veg . Then in time , you can move into a fruit and nut day , if you want to .



Do you back your system up with a multivitamin



BTW what's "naked juice" , is it a brand or something ?

Hullo Lizzie,



I'm a newbie on this forum too (though not posted here on the newbie slot yet...) and though no newbie to a vegetarian diet, over the last few years I've been in a similar boat with the whole dancing between dietary extremes thing myself. And I've found it confudling and not very helpful - for me!



Like you, I've done vegan part-time, raw-food now and then, and fasting, and so on.

If you are having confusions about whats helpful for you and what aint, I'd stop dancing with extremes between raw food/veganism and full-on carnivore days in the same week.



IMO you're probably not giving your body time to balance itself out! The body is a very loyal ally, and a highly adaptive machine, but it sound like you may be sending it mixed messages. All over the globe, people in different cultures have the most particular diets including and excluding all sorts of things, but their bodies know what to expect and are adapted from experience to cope effectively.



I suggest you try to become more moderate in your approach. Why not just do it step by step? Do the *full-on vegetarian* thing for a month or two at least to begin with, exclude all meat substances entirely, then check your bodies rosponses to simple straightforward meat exclusion without any other dietary frills or challenges?



If you feel you need to cut back on meat gradually, fine, just don't compromise yorself by attempting other forms of radical exclusion before you've been comfortable as a full vegetarian, for a reasonable time frame.



My guess is, that you won't notice a thing, so long as your meat-free diet remains fairly stable and predictable. If you do feel 'low', then stock up on a bit of 'Floradix' from the healthfoodshop.



Once you've gotten your system into a healthy rythm without meat - and you feel sound, then start integrating vegan alternatives where they are easy (as I do). It is really easy to slowly experiment with veganism, and then raw or 'life-foods', while also just having the odd day where you're not utterly perfect.



I'd just be careful of throwing your body between dietary extremes in the same week every week.



Maybe think in terms of a month or two excluding 'this or that', one at a time... and then seeing how you go on?



Well, good luck, I hope you find the right way forward for you, Just gently listen to your body, don't get either too paranoid about whats going on in you, or overly perfectionist with your diet too soon.

Green Alice

I would also recommend that you use a food tracking program like fitday (www.fitday.com) to moniter your calorie intake. It's very simple to use, especially if you are eating lots of whole foods. It will give you a breakdown of calories, fat and protein as well as most vitamins and minerals. If you track things for a couple of weeks, you can make sure you are eating enough and getting enough nutrients. After using it for awhile, it's pretty easy to guestimate your calories.



I would also like to recommend some reading materials for you. The more you know, the easier it gets to eat. So scour VB- there are so many great ideas on this site for food etc. You should also check out the raw forum we have as a sister site.It's www.theRawForum.com FOr real books, I highly, highly recommend 'Becoming Vegetarian' and 'Becoming Vegan' By Brenda Davis and Vesanto Melina. After reading those, I was so much more confident in my dietary choices. It's more than you ever thought you could know about nutrition, but in a really easy to read and understand format, with some great reciepes too!

Thanks you guys are all so helpful I really appreciate it



GreenAlice- I resonated with so much of what you said. i do tend to do extremes when dieting or doing a lifestyle change. I have had a weight problem since I was 8 even though I was one of the only kids who didn't bring cookies or chips or the like to school. So I have done everything (save Atkins), South Beach, WW (which I am still doing), basically it all... I guess what attracted me about raw foods was how it seemed so clean like you are just eating pure stuff of the earth not some crap made in a lab. But I have been vascillating. This week I wasn't as bad after vegan-izing it for a few days but I did fall off the wagon. I guess I want to be healthy and not eat mac and cheese and pizza and junk (not that there is anything wrong with that) but if I am going veggie that is a big reason why and fat and carbs combine really weigh me down (literally!). Thankfully I live in NY with some very tasty and low fat ethnic food. I am a big fan of Indian bc the veggie choices are outstanding. My fave is a spinach ginger thing (not as heavy as saag paneer) with chickpeas- I get it hot and it has almost no fat whatsoever. Anyway, GA thank you so much for being so nice and supportive and urging me to take it slow I appreciate all the advice!



I am not a big pasta person so If I am not going to do chix and veggies or whatever what do u guys normally eat on a given night? Rice is a good thing- I love rice and beans but just curious what the consesus is here.... do u guys mainly do starch and veggies?



bluesand (I love your avatar btw)- naked juice hmm maybe its just here in America? yah its prepackaged juice- I buy the ones with fiber bc some donthave it. however i think thats one of the reasons i may have been tired. Drink a big one of those for breakfast and lunch and major sugar crash even if it is all natural! I dont take a multi-v tho I need to. Sometimes they make me sick (or the one-a-days have) so i will go back to centrum.



Synergy - thanks so much- I am on caloriecount (which I dont think is as good as fitday but i am already on there so its ok for now). Thanks for the reading suggestions as well and I have already been lurking on the raw forum for a few weeks now- LOL!



I just decided to insert that there bc who can resist a dancing pineapple?

Dinners are protein-whole grain-veggie usually. Not that compartmentalized though. Thinking back to last week, we had:

Seitan pot roast with assorted veggies, roasted delicata squash

Vegetable vindaloo (cauliflower, carrots, kidney beans, zucchini) with brown basmati rice

Whole wheat rotini with chickpeas, spinach, and sun dried tomatoes

Homemade tofu, marinated and baked, and roasted cauliflower and carrots

Brown rice with mushrooms, peas, sesame seeds, nori, and tamari

Tonight we're having seitan and vegetable noodle soup.

Also planned this week is pasta and broccoli (a quick and easy favorite), tofu and spinach parmesan with homemade mozzarella uncheeze and a green salad, and "neat"loaf, oven roasted rosemary potatoes, and collard greens.



You can check out a lot of dinners on my blog... I try to update regularly but.. uhm... well, last week is there!

LOL RC I spent the last 20 mins like obsessively going through recipes in your blog.

My fave peanut butter pasta and peas. Here is why:



1) if I were to worship a veggie, it would be peas. I LOVE peas.

2) I LOOOOOOOOOVE peanut butter

3) Thus, how can you go wrong?



Do you think it would be nasty with rice instead of pasta?



Btw, when you made the faux mac and cheese does it actually kinda taste like cheese or just LOOK like cheese?



Also, I looked up seitan which I thought was like tofu but it is actually wheat gluten. I figured out fresh direct has one brand, here it is:

http://www.tofutown.net/index.php?id=93 (its the blue box one at the top).



Do diff seitans taste diff ? there seem to be so many kinds on the company website but FD has blue. Is it kinda like tofu (which honestly the texture of strandard tofu makes me squeamish) and takes on the flavor of what you are cooking?



Speaking of peas, I think you had a slammin split pea soup recipe on there again which I must seek out!



Thanks!

Hmm.. I don't know that I would make the PB pasta with rice... maybe rice noodles? But hey, give it a shot. My bf likes peanut butter in his sushi... so there must be something to it!



There are 2 mac & cheeses on my page -- the one that uses soy cheese my bf says is better than his mom's homemade mac & cheese (he's an omni, so he's often my "real" gauge). The vegnews one tasted VERY cheesy!! It was shockingly like cheese. The bf's commentary was that it tasted more like *nacho* cheese -- but he still ate 3 servings.



Every store bought seitan I've tried tastes different. Some are better than others. A lot of them have a very "Asian" flavor to them, whereas I make italian style, mexican style, chicken style, beefish, etc... Much more versatile. My favorite store bought comes from a local company, but it's INSANELY expensive ($7+/lbs!! Worth it though if you're a seitan noob. I'm guessing you're not in *upstate* NYthough). I make my own seitan (see first entry - it's dumb cheap to make). The texture varies based on the cooking method, but it is NOT like tofu at all! It has a flavor of it's own, as I said, depending on what you season it with. We munch on baked seitan straight out of the oven. It will take on more flavor if you coat it in stuff when you cook it. Texture wise -- if you boil it hard it comes out spongy or "brainy." If you simmer it correctly it's got small bubbles, but is dense and chewy. Slow cooked seitan almost melts in your mouth. Baked seitan is very firm and has a very meaty bite. We're big seitan fans around here. It's one of my bf's favorites (he doesn't eat meat at home), so we usually have it at least once a week.

LOL PB in sushi- I was only able to eat one piece of sushi with a ton of ginger and wasabi. I know fish is healthy but I can't stand it. And when I walk into red lobster the smell is heinous.



The mac and cheese one I saw was the vegan one I believe- with the nuts.... sound slike it was a hit!



Btw, I know veggies who consider themselves so even tho they eat fish. My theory was always what we learned in science class, for true veggies there are 2 kingdoms, animal and plant. Fish doesn't fall in the plant kingdom so there you go. Just my opinion, tho. I am not saying I am one yet so bc I have consumed m&at in the past week but I just always thought that was interesting when people say "I am a vegetarian, I don't eat meat but I eat fish". HUH?



Thanks for all the seitan help! I will try it out. you are quite the cook- I am totally nervous that I would botch all these recipes but how will I know if I don't try, right?



I was shocked that Trader Joe's (looked online) didnt have seitan.



Don't look at the wikipedia entry for seitan, the ones in the cans looked so disgusting...like a snake, ick!!!!



Rice noodles- that would be good. I also have brown rice pasta I have yet to make!

Sushi means vinegared rice, thus, it doesn't have to include fish. Generally around here if someone is talking about sushi (myself included) we're talking about VEGETABLE sushi, which is really yummy!! (Because you're right, vegetarians don't eat fish... we DO eat our body weights in veggie sushi though! Avocado and cucumber rolls, seaweed salad rolls, shiitake mushroom rolls, inari sushi... nom nom nom!)



Be brave! Try new recipes! I screw stuff up all the time -- I just don't post those days on my blog

ah no fishies I shoulda known. I just thought since you said your bf and he is an omnivore, right? Or am I confused?



I had a veggie burger tonight rather than my usual turkey burger diner fare. It was honestly kinda like falfalel which I dont like bc its too greasy- u know with all the bredcrumbs and stuff. But I am happy I HAD It instead of the turkey burger. Its a big step for me



I have a big dark choc tooth and was thrilled to check my twilight dark and discover it was vegan. O happy day!



RC- thanks again for all your replie stoday and support. I very much appreciate them.

This might be a bit off topic, well not exactly off topic. But in response to what you say here about the swinging between diets thing and weight issues, personally I found Paul McKennas "I Can Make You Thin" (yeah, a bit of a dramatic title I know...) book and Journal really sensible, grounding and helpful for balancing out my own diet, and getting me to lose real weight slowly and effectively.



In my humble, his method is blindingly 'common sense', but delivered in such a way that makes you believe and get on with it. It's just a way to start to tune into and trust your bodies instincts about what it needs again, especially if you've been yo-yo ing for a while. And it worked for me, though I can't vouch for anyone else. Like anything else, you can slip up, but the Journal really helped me to stay on track.



I know what you mean about raw food, it does kinda make you feel like some holy Saintly being I do an organic apple day at the weekend sometimes, and then follow with a day of salad and veggie broth, before getting back into a normal week.



Alice

Hi GreenAlice:



I am a big fan of Paul McKennas! Did you see him when he was on TLC? That show actually DID work for me bc even tho I still obsessively weighed myself I did listen to him and stop eating when I was satisfied, ate slowly, etc. At the time I was a meat eater so when the diner would deliver the turkey burger with fries I would cut the TB in 1/2. Then I would eat both that and the fries slowly. I realized I could 1/2 of both and still feel satisfied.



My prob is that I am a nightime grazer. I generally don't eat too much garbage. But I graze, esp when bored. We are in a small apt and the living room (where I use my laptop flows into the kitchen)- easy access for nuts, popcorn, even fruit, etc.



On your apple weekends do u just eat apples all day? Apples are great for you. I have started eating more lately. I have a v slow digestive system and they are good for regulating that and I think for balancing blood sugar as well.



Bc I have had weight problems and gland/hormone issues my weight is tricky. Eat too much gain but eat too little and my metabolism slows down. Whatever my weight is, I generally have a small window in which I can lose weight. Also, I must exercise. I had a warehouse job in college where there was NO ac and I was on my feet all day. It wasn't enough, even with my 1300-1700 cal a day diet. I had to run too. Crazy! I am trying to track my calories now bc I dont want to fall into the too many carbs track.