Greetings, from a meat eater. - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 09-04-2005, 01:36 AM
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First off, let me explicitly state that I have not come and registered to these forums to make a troll out of myself. If you'd ask me why I did come here, to a strictly vegetarian forum, I couldn't give you a straight answer, but I could say that I have an interest in delving into the mind of vegetarians, to see how they think, and try to figure out some of the animosity that is had for us meat eaters. Okay... with that said...



Hi, my name is... well, lets just say my name is Raziaar, and I am a meat eater. I have been for as long as I can remember, and will continue to be for the remainder of my life. I am a lover of animals, but I equally love meat, and I have no qualms really about animals being killed to fill my plate. However, I could never kill them myself, as I am a non violent man, even when it comes to animals. I particularily like cows... one of my favorite animals to eat, and one of my favorite animals overall. What can I say, I think they're cute! I would have added my dancing cow avatar if I could, but sadly no animated avatars.



I would go so far as to say I love meat so much, I could watch a peta video with the animals being slaughtered, and 'still' have a burger right after. Disgusting? Maybe for you, but its food for me its a natural thing, just as canines and sharks and dogs, and cats do. They kill things for sustenance.



Okay, wanted to get all the nitty gritty stuff out of the way first, and basically say hi to you all. I probably will recieve a very cold welcome, but I can live with that, I suppose. I just hope you understand I am not here to flame, or argue at every turn and try to ruin your forums.
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#2 Old 09-04-2005, 02:09 AM
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You may want to check with Michael the owner of the board but the terms of service state that you can only be a member of this board if you are a vegetarian or have an interest in becoming one.



I think you will find that some veggies are more than happy to answering your questions though.



I hope you aren't treated too badly here. Not all of us veggies hate meat eaters.



Here is the TOS part that I was talking about:

We require that users be vegetarian or that they have a sincere interest in eliminating/reducing the amount of meat in their diet. We have a few individuals who were "grandfathered in" but we no longer accept registrations from those who are here to argue against a vegetarian lifestyle
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#3 Old 09-04-2005, 02:19 AM
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If you want to learn about vegetarians this is the place to be. Im sure the education will be a benefit. There are several intelligent people on this forum. It was unnecessary to call so much attention to yourself but whatever floats your boat.

I wouldn't be surprised if this thread gets deleted but there's a ton of info so happy reading!
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#4 Old 09-04-2005, 02:46 AM
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I just wanted to add that not all vegetarians are so for the same reasons. Some do it for health reasons, some for religious, some because they don't like eating meat, some because they don't like the slaughterhouse system, some because they love animals too much to eat them, some because they were raised that way, and any possible combinations therein. As gaya said, there's lots of info on these boards, so look around. There are a lot of threads out there called "why are you a vegetarian?" and "why did you go veg*n?" (veg*n being shorthand for vegetarian and vegan).
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#5 Old 09-04-2005, 03:14 AM
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You say you "could" watch a PETA video and eat meat right after. But *have* you watched these videos? Please go watch www.meetyourmeat.com (free download) and report back (seriously, since you say you want to learn here).



One cannot really consider themselves non-violent, say they truly love animals, and be part of the market for factory farming and slaughter, without being in some ignorance or denial.

"If you want to know where you would have stood on slavery before the civil war, don't look at where you stand on slavery today, look at where you stand on animal rights." - Paul Watson.

 

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#6 Old 09-04-2005, 03:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Irizary View Post

You say you "could" watch a PETA video and eat meat right after. But *have* you watched these videos? Please go watch www.meetyourmeat.com (free download) and report back (seriously, since you say you want to learn here).



One cannot really consider themselves non-violent, say they truly love animals, and be part of the market for factory farming and slaughter, without being in some ignorance or denial.



Yes... I 'have' watched PETA videos. The ones narrated by the actors. I said I have, why would you not believe me?



And... well, i'm not really going to argue about the latter thing you said. I didn't come here to argue.
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#7 Old 09-04-2005, 03:29 AM
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I don't understand how you can say you love animals in one breath and then say you love meat in the next. It makes no sense. Cows are your favourite animal yet you happily kill them and eat them? Jeez, I'd hate see how you treated your enemies.

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#8 Old 09-04-2005, 03:31 AM
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You said that you "could" watch a video, not that you did.



But I kinda bet you are here to argue. Regardless, there are so many threads here from over the years that likely *already* answer the questions you would want to know, if you look. I don't see what the big trick is to understanding why some people would want to be vegetarians. If you looked at the movies and facts about farming, that's why probably the majority are veg*n, and many of the others do it for health.

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#9 Old 09-04-2005, 03:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Raziaar View Post


And... well, i'm not really going to argue about the latter thing you said. I didn't come here to argue.



Then why are you here? You proclaim you are a meat eater and will never change, yet you join a board specifically for vegetarians and those who wish to become vegetarian?

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#10 Old 09-04-2005, 03:37 AM
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Then why are you here? You proclaim you are a meat eater and will never change, yet you join a board specifically for vegetarians and those who wish to become vegetarian?



Perhaps there's a little place in him that knows that his behavior is incongruous with his stated beliefs, and somewhere inside he actually may want to change (either the behavior or the belief) to get rid of that dissonance. Or it's an exercise and he wants to challenge. If he wanted to just observe the minds of vegetarians, he could do that without making the entrance.

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#11 Old 09-04-2005, 03:52 AM
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Bleh. Well. i can see the inherently conflictual nature within all of you <shrugs> So... see ya. Wasn't worth it. Vegetarians are so hostile.
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#12 Old 09-04-2005, 03:58 AM
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Well, there you go.



I wonder what happened to, "I probably will recieve a very cold welcome, but I can live with that." I also noticed that some people gave a very friendly welcome to you, but you say "the inherently conflictual nature within ALL of you" and calling vegetarians hostile. I'd say you're pretty hostile yourself.



Good riddance.

"If you want to know where you would have stood on slavery before the civil war, don't look at where you stand on slavery today, look at where you stand on animal rights." - Paul Watson.

 

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#13 Old 09-04-2005, 04:03 AM
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Well, there you go. I think your agenda was pretty clear.



I wonder what happened to, "I probably will recieve a very cold welcome, but I can live with that." I also noticed that some people gave a very friendly welcome to you, but you say "the inherently conflictual nature within ALL of you" and calling vegetarians hostile. I'd say you're pretty hostile yourself.



Good riddance.



Nothing I had said was hostile. Sorry you cannot see that. If I came here with ill intentions, I would have posted links to awful, horrible pictures under the guise of other things... seek to spam and cause all sorts of turmoil before I could be locked out, and other things...



But. No, I didn't do any of that. I came here, introducing myself, as an outsider, willing to learn about things, and I just see post after post of people trying to shoot me down with thinly veiled insults, among other "things".



Living with something doesn't mean putting up with it. I can move on. And I shall.
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#14 Old 09-04-2005, 04:08 AM
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Oh no, nothing you say is hostile...



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Originally Posted by Raziaar View Post

Well. i can see the inherently conflictual nature within all of you <shrugs> So... see ya... Vegetarians are so hostile.



Part of your "learning about things" if you come to a vegetarian board as an avowed now and forever meat eater, saying you're nonviolent and love animals - is having some challenge to your contradictory statements. It seems like your skin is too thin for a public message board anyway (even if you weren't in violation of the TOS). Really you should just do searches and lurk, if you actually want to see into the rationale of vegetarianism.

"If you want to know where you would have stood on slavery before the civil war, don't look at where you stand on slavery today, look at where you stand on animal rights." - Paul Watson.

 

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#15 Old 09-04-2005, 04:13 AM
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Hello Raziaar,



First of all, I would like to clarify something. I am a vegan, but have no animosity towards meat eaters. In my experience, most meat eaters are in denial, even the ones that happily announce that they fully except thier meat eating causes suffering. I generally find that a meat eaters procrastination of 'I like meat, I know it causes suffering, but don't care/I can live with it' is just a act of bravado to deflect from some very real and very uncomfortable issues.



Also, in my experience, I have received some mild animosity from 'meat eaters' who take it upon themselves to try and challenge my views (always, with feeble and ignorant arguments) but I still have no animosity towards meat eaters. Most of my friends and family are meat eaters, I love them all. OKAY, animosity issue cleared up.



I don't want to speak out of line and I hope you enjoy your time here on the board, but I have to be honest and say that I question your real motivation to join this board. I believe you when you say that you're not here to troll, but why the interest to 'delve' into the veg*n mind? And why the quite loud defending of your views in a place where they're obviously going to be controversial? Are you doubting your meat eating views? You say yourself you don't really know why you are here.



Anyway, I'm a newbie here and have found everybody welcoming and friendly, and as long as you are are respectful, I hope you do to.



I hope you find what you are looking for in amongst these forums.



Kind regards

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#16 Old 09-04-2005, 04:32 AM
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I wonderd how long you'd last. C'mon, you were here to stir up trouble. Just look at your first post.



"I particularily like cows... one of my favorite animals to eat, and one of my favorite animals overall. What can I say, I think they're cute!"



"I am a lover of animals, but I equally love meat, and I have no qualms really about animals being killed to fill my plate."



"However, I could never kill them myself, as I am a non violent man, even when it comes to animals"



I have meat-eater friends and relative I love very much, but for someone who "[has] been [a meat-eater] for as long as I can remember, and will continue to be for the remainder of my life" to join a message board whose stated policy is to only allow vegetarians and those who intend becoming vegetarian, you've got to wonder what you're here for.

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#17 Old 09-04-2005, 04:53 AM
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I wonderd how long you'd last. C'mon, you were here to stir up trouble. Just look at your first post.



"I particularily like cows... one of my favorite animals to eat, and one of my favorite animals overall. What can I say, I think they're cute!"



"I am a lover of animals, but I equally love meat, and I have no qualms really about animals being killed to fill my plate."



"However, I could never kill them myself, as I am a non violent man, even when it comes to animals"



I have meat-eater friends and relative I love very much, but for someone who "[has] been [a meat-eater] for as long as I can remember, and will continue to be for the remainder of my life" to join a message board whose stated policy is to only allow vegetarians and those who intend becoming vegetarian, you've got to wonder what you're here for.



All which I said are factual statements. if I came to stir up trouble, I could have done a 'much' more effective job than this, posting in a calm, collected manner. I suppose if you're one of those people who believe you can't love animals unless you don't eat them, I can't really convince you that people can love animals, and yet still eat them. I mean... i'm entirely against hunting, and killing animals myself(i don't have the heart to actually do the deed myself). I am also against animals being tortured in facilities. I don't like the fact that they suffer... I would prefer that they be killed without any suffering at all, and living a good life up until that fateful point. But... I didn't claim to be in support of those awful things, and i'm labelled as much here. <shrugs> You say you have family members who eat meat, and you love them... and someone who isn't related comes along, claims they love animals, yet also eats meat... they instantly have to be some sort of awful person?



I didn't say any of those things to incite conflict. I realized they may have spurred some controversy, but I didn't set out to rile anybody up here. Thus the reason I haven't tried to spout out propoganda or anything of the like. I mean, its not like I came here and said "You associate yourself with people who would sooner see your meat eating families dead, than an animal"



<shrugs> Oh well. I won't bother any of you anymore. Its not due to a 'thin skin' as some of you claim. Thats a retarded insult. I simply don't want to waste my time with people who can't see past the fact that I eat meat... and choose only to attack me at every turn. My time can be better spent elsewhere.
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#18 Old 09-04-2005, 05:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Raziaar View Post

You say you have family members who eat meat, and you love them... and someone who isn't related comes along, claims they love animals, yet also eats meat... they instantly have to be some sort of awful person?



Yes, I do, but said loved ones don't turn up to my Vegan Unite vegetarian dinners and loadly proclaim themselves meat eaters who will never give up.



Quote:

I didn't say any of those things to incite conflict. I realized they may have spurred some controversy, but I didn't set out to rile anybody up here. Thus the reason I haven't tried to spout out propoganda or anything of the like. I mean, its not like I came here and said "You associate yourself with people who would sooner see your meat eating families dead, than an animal"



You still haven't said why you are deliberately violating our TOS. You really think that you have to be that over the top to be a troll? C'mon... coming to a vegetarian board saying things like your cow statement, you must have known what reaction you would have gotten.

Quote:

My time can be better spent elsewhere.



Probably.

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#19 Old 09-04-2005, 05:04 AM
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Oh... and I never said you were an awful person, I just find it hard to belive that someone who posts the stuff you have in your first post is here to win friends and influence people.

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#20 Old 09-04-2005, 05:05 AM
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Yes, I do, but said loved ones don't turn up to my Vegan Unite vegetarian dinners and loadly proclaim themselves meat eaters who will never give up.







You still haven't said why you are deliberately violating our TOS. You really think that you have to be that over the top to be a troll? C'mon... coming to a vegetarian board saying things like your cow statement, you must have known what reaction you would have gotten.





Probably.



I honestly didn't read the TOS. I usually don't for message boards. Because just about all of them don't usually have requirements that you have to be of a certain affiliation. Just common sense things like spamming, and trolling, and other disruptive things.
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#21 Old 09-04-2005, 05:10 AM
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You can't seem to handle the slightest challenge to your statements, even though you knowingly come onto a veg*n message board to challenge all of ours.



In addition, you are nearly entirely in self-delusion:



Quote:
I can't really convince you that people can love animals, and yet still eat them. I mean... i'm entirely against hunting, and killing animals myself(i don't have the heart to actually do the deed myself). I am also against animals being tortured in facilities. I don't like the fact that they suffer... I would prefer that they be killed without any suffering at all, and living a good life up until that fateful point. But... I didn't claim to be in support of those awful things, and i'm labelled as much here.



When you eat them, you ARE in support of "those things." You are creating the demand for them. So what if you're so sensitive you can't do the killing yourself? You're ordering the hit. Do you think it hurts them any less because you aren't personally overseeing their miserable existence and slaughter? That's not love, that's delusion.

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#22 Old 09-04-2005, 05:13 AM
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Maybe s/he thinks it's ok to kill your wife so long as you get a hitman to do it.

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#23 Old 09-04-2005, 05:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Irizary View Post

<-- you. Yeah, your skin is thin and you can't seem to handle the slightest challenge to your statements, even though you knowingly come onto a veg*n message board to challenge all of ours.



<laughs> Okay... now, for the record, you're 'taunting' me to troll. I mean, you're basically asking it, what with idiotic insults like those that sound like they came right off the school playground. <laughs> Neener neener! Come up with something full of wit next time, young lady.



When have I challenged any of your vegetarian beliefs? Please tell me... point it out.



<goes to eat some animal crackers>
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#24 Old 09-04-2005, 05:19 AM
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You do not seem to be a self-aware person. Try this one, as your intro onto a veg*n message board:



Quote:
I particularily like cows... one of my favorite animals to eat


"If you want to know where you would have stood on slavery before the civil war, don't look at where you stand on slavery today, look at where you stand on animal rights." - Paul Watson.

 

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#25 Old 09-04-2005, 05:24 AM
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You do not seem to be a self-aware person. Try this one, as your intro onto a veg*n message board:



And? Its true. I read all the time about recently turned vegetarians who loved meat, and turned to vegetarianism later in their life. They never disputed the fact that the meat they ate tasted good, they just turned away from it for more moral reasons. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I fail to see your very, very weak point.



You're instigating conflict here... so maybe I better get out of the forum, before you firebomb it!



That... that was trolling. ^^^ Though... all the thanks go to you Irizary.
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#26 Old 09-04-2005, 05:30 AM
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"I hate blacks" might be true of some people, too, but if I went and posted that on an South African Interests board it might be seen as a little, hmm... off? Or "I'm a racist, I've been a racist all my life and intend to stay that way" in the same post might be true, too. C'mon, how dim are you? You know what you are doing. You know it full well.

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#27 Old 09-04-2005, 05:31 AM
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"I hate blacks" might be true of some people, too, but if I went and posted that on an South African Interests board it might be seen as a little, hmm... off? Or "I'm a racist, I've been a racist all my life and intend to stay that way" in the same post might be true, too. C'mon, how dim are you? You know what you are doing. You know it full well.



Wooo, way to compare animal rights to racism. PETA does the exact same thing, with slavery. <rolls his eyes> I mean... nothing like animal rights militants comparing minorities to animals right? Thats soooo wrong. And well... you pissed me off by that blatant stupidity. This is why I am posting this.
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#28 Old 09-04-2005, 05:35 AM
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Ok, let's reconstruct you first post in a slightly different manner.



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First off, let me explicitly state that I have not come and registered to these forums to make a troll out of myself. If you'd ask me why I did come here, to a strictly Chinese forum, I couldn't give you a straight answer, but I could say that I have an interest in delving into the mind of Chinese, to see how they think, and try to figure out some of the animosity that is had for us non-Chinese. Okay... with that said...



Hi, my name is... well, lets just say my name is Newbie, and I am a racist. I have been for as long as I can remember, and will continue to be for the remainder of my life. I am a lover of Asians, but I equally love killing them, and I have no qualms really about Asians being killed to on my behalf. However, I could never kill them myself, as I am a non violent man, even when it comes to Asian. I particularily like Chinese... one of my favorite races to lynch, and one of my favorite races overall. What can I say, I think they're cute! I would have added my dancing Chinaman avatar if I could, but sadly no animated avatars.



I would go so far as to say I love lynching Asians so much, I could watch a Amnesty International video with the Asians being slaughtered, and 'still' beat up a Chinese woman straight away.. Disgusting? Maybe for you, but its violence for me its a natural thing, just as canines and sharks and dogs, and cats do. They kill things too.



Okay, wanted to get all the nitty gritty stuff out of the way first, and basically say hi to you all. I probably will recieve a very cold welcome, but I can live with that, I suppose. I just hope you understand I am not here to flame, or argue at every turn and try to ruin your forums.


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#29 Old 09-04-2005, 05:36 AM
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Ok, let's reconstruct you first post in a slightly different manner.



Geez. What are you, a bunch of racists? Racism is disgusting. You people care more about animals than people or something? Ick.
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#30 Old 09-04-2005, 05:37 AM
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And, the true motivation is revealed (troll).



You project, and blame others for your shortcomings.



I thought you were going (you'll get banned soon anyway).

"If you want to know where you would have stood on slavery before the civil war, don't look at where you stand on slavery today, look at where you stand on animal rights." - Paul Watson.

 

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