The calorie "paradox" of raw veganism (raw day analysis) - VeggieBoards
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#1 Old 01-11-2010, 06:55 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 63
http://www.beyondveg.com/billings-t/...aradox1a.shtml



I think this is a reasonable raw vegan day:



Breakfast: 20 oranges (2kg - 940 cal)



Lunch: walnuts (150 g - 927 cal) + sunflower seeds (50 g - 292 cal)



Dinner: spinach salad (600 g - 138 cal) with tomatoes (100 g - 18 cal) and cucumbers (100 g - 15 cal)



Total: 3,0 kg - 2330 cal



2,472 l water



~ 44% carb calories



~ 43% fat calories



~ 12% protein calories



www.nutritiondata.com



Surprisingly for me, it seems like a pretty balanced diet, although the fat content is pretty high, I don't know if it's healthy or not. Calories are good, although, some people may require more than that. 3 kg of food is not huge bulk, the average American eats about 2,1 kg of food a day. It's certainly not what a cow eats at least.



I think the needs for vitamins and minerals are also met. What do you think?
mihai_alexandru is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 Old 01-11-2010, 08:57 PM
Veggie Regular
 
penny79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,946
More fruit, more greens, less nuts/seeds would be good.
penny79 is offline  
#3 Old 01-11-2010, 09:10 PM
Banned
 
Firefly by 3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 208
20 oranges? For breakfast? 20? Isn't that awfully acidic?



This is a balanced raw diet wtf?



Now I read the article I still say wtf?? Since when is the "party line", whatever the hell that may be, of raw veganism to limit nuts and avacadoes? raw vegans who follow the "party line" and limit their consumption of avocados, nuts, and dried fruit need to consume, What are they talking about here? I know nothing of raw food eating, but I am vegan, and I eat a heap of those. Not so much the dried fruit but for sure the avocadoes and nuts (though it can be hard to find true, unblanched raw nuts in some varieties).
Firefly by 3 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#4 Old 01-12-2010, 02:26 AM
Beginner
 
kencraw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 103
There is more to consider than just calories. Since going raw myself a few weeks ago, I can tell you that although calorie, protein, carbs and fat intake is a concern...you must also take into consideration all the vitamins and minerals your body requires. I am not a nutritionists or a doctor, however I do look out for my health. I am currently tweaking the menu plans to ensure that we get the required vitamins and minerals first, followed by caories and such. Take yesterday for instance:

BREAKFAST

Orange (1)

Banana (1)

Apple (1)

Blackberries/Blueberries (1/4-cup



SMOOTHIE

Bananas (1)

Apple

Kale (1-cup)

Spinach 1 cup

Avacado (1)

Flax Seed (2 tablespoons)







Almonds (1 ounce)

Walnuts (1/4-cup

Lunch



Dandelion Greens (1 cups)

Braggs









DINNER

Sun-Dried Tomatoes (1/4-cup)

Zucchini (2)

Olive Oil ( 2 tablespoons)

Tomato ((2 cups)

Onion (1/4-cup)

Bell Pepper (1-cup)



There was also a snack here and a snack there of pate' and such. Calories came in around 1800 with protein at a little over 50g. But Iron, Magnesium, b1 thiamen, Zinc, Riboflavin,\tNiacin, B6, Folate,\tVitamin A, Vitamin E, Vitamin K are at levels they need to be at eating a RAW diet. I want to take a little supplements as possible. Currently we are using the NOW Vit-Min 75+ for supplemental with the B12, Iron and Calcium. Eating raw does not require you to stock your refrigerator with half the produce section of the grocery store for 1 days worth of eating. I am tweaking the calorie/protein end this week to bring the calories to 2000 and protein to around 75-100gr based on my weight, build and lifestyle.



Also looking at the your menu mihai_alexandru, that is nowhere near the amounts of iron, magnesium, calcium or zinc you need not to mention B3. But there I go again over-analyizing everything...lol
kencraw is offline  
#5 Old 01-12-2010, 03:34 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Begonia's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 467
How bout sprouts? (Lentils, mung beans, chick peas, sunflower seeds, quinoa - excellent sprouted, wheat, spelt or other grains, etc. ) To add protein, valuable digestive enzymes as well as vitamins and minerals and reduce the fat content of your overall raw foods diet...
Begonia is offline  
#6 Old 01-12-2010, 03:43 AM
Beginner
 
kencraw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Begonia View Post

How bout sprouts? (Lentils, mung beans, chick peas, sunflower seeds, quinoa - excellent sprouted, wheat, spelt or other grains, etc. ) To add protein, valuable digestive enzymes as well as vitamins and minerals and reduce the fat content of your overall raw foods diet...



Sprouts is one thing I seriously want to add to our diet. The problem here is that most of the product I am seeing in the stores look bad. I am going down to one of the health/organic stores later this week to look again. We are going to attempt to grow our own here in the apartment but that will not happen for a few months. Just too many things going on...lol
kencraw is offline  
#7 Old 01-12-2010, 07:20 AM
Veggie Regular
 
penny79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,946
Ken, your diet is very high in fat and low in carbohydrates from fruit. I don't think it's sustainable as-is but it's fine for transition or if you're not active and don't need a high amount of energy.



I get alll nutrients with a high fruit low fat diet. About 2,500 cals from fruit. Our fuel.
penny79 is offline  
#8 Old 01-12-2010, 07:34 AM
Beginner
 
kencraw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by penny79 View Post

Ken, your diet is very high in fat and low in carbohydrates from fruit. I don't think it's sustainable as-is but it's fine for transition or if you're not active and don't need a high amount of energy.



I get alll nutrients with a high fruit low fat diet. About 2,500 cals from fruit. Our fuel.



Hi Penny,



My carbs on yesterday were sitting at 191g. I haven't even looked at the fat, will need to add that on my spreadsheet..hahaha What fruits and what quantities are you eating daily for the calories? Right now I am not as active as I should be. Much writing to be done between now and Feb. But I will be out of the transitional stages here shortly I hope.
kencraw is offline  
#9 Old 01-12-2010, 08:58 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by kencraw View Post


Also looking at the your menu mihai_alexandru, that is nowhere near the amounts of iron, magnesium, calcium or zinc you need not to mention B3. But there I go again over-analyizing everything...lol



Actually I think vitamin & mineral requirements are met. 100g of oranges and spinach for example are low in some vitamins & minerals, but in this case you multiply that by 20, respectively 6.
mihai_alexandru is offline  
#10 Old 01-12-2010, 09:26 AM
Beginner
 
kencraw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by mihai_alexandru View Post

Actually I think vitamin & mineral requirements are met. 100g of oranges and spinach for example are low in some vitamins & minerals, but in this case you multiply that by 20, respectively 6.



But looking at the spinach alone for a moment 1 cup of spinach is 30 g. You are saying 600g which equates to 20 cups of spinach. That is way too much eating. Seriously. 20 cups of spinach, 2 cups of sliced cucumbers and about 3/4 cups of tomato. That is a lot at dinner time. Couple that with eating 20 oranges in the morning. Plus a cup each of walnuts and sunflower seeds. Personally I would not get anything done because I would be eating constantly..yea I eat slow.. hahahaha
kencraw is offline  
#11 Old 01-12-2010, 09:40 AM
Veggie Regular
 
penny79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,946
Quote:
Originally Posted by kencraw View Post

Hi Penny,



My carbs on yesterday were sitting at 191g. I haven't even looked at the fat, will need to add that on my spreadsheet..hahaha What fruits and what quantities are you eating daily for the calories? Right now I am not as active as I should be. Much writing to be done between now and Feb. But I will be out of the transitional stages here shortly I hope.



Oh, geez. Every day is different. If I have ripe bananas (I only eat them ripe, they're horrible unripened), I might eat 6-24 of those. Otherwise, apples, berries, pineapple, grapes (high calorie), melons, greens, lots of greens. Sometimes I have avocado, like 3 per week. Other times I don't eat overt fats and get my fat from the greens and sweet fruit. I like other nonsweet fruits, too, like bell peppers and tomatoes. No green peppers because those aren't digested/are unripe.
penny79 is offline  
#12 Old 01-12-2010, 09:44 AM
Beginner
 
kencraw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by penny79 View Post

Oh, geez. Every day is different. If I have ripe bananas (I only eat them ripe, they're horrible unripened), I might eat 6-24 of those. Otherwise, apples, berries, pineapple, grapes (high calorie), melons, greens, lots of greens. Sometimes I have avocado, like 3 per week. Other times I don't eat overt fats and get my fat from the greens and sweet fruit. I like other nonsweet fruits, too, like bell peppers and tomatoes. No green peppers because those aren't digested/are unripe.



I was just mentioning to my wife today about adding grapes. hahahaha. I would love to add more berrie but they are so expensive around here. The bananas do get eaten a lot. Thanks Penny for the reminder about the green peppers too.
kencraw is offline  
#13 Old 01-12-2010, 09:49 AM
Veggie Regular
 
penny79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,946
Yeah, I hear you on the berries. They don't taste good when not in season, anyway, so you're not missing out.



I transitioned with higher fat and using oils still and nuts, etc., but eventually I felt lighter and noticed even better digestion and skin and energy on a high-fruit diet. The nuts just sit in your stomach for so long! Plus you're never satiated because your body knows it needs carbs.
penny79 is offline  
#14 Old 01-12-2010, 10:06 AM
Beginner
 
kencraw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 103
Berries and tomatoes are so expensive. I am so glad we decided to start indoor growing last year. Even in the small apartment we have 2 tomatoes, 2 peppers and a summer squash. Right now what I am looking at, and again I analyze everything, we are still low in the calcium, protein and zinc as far as just through natural raw foods. Keeping it simple too, no dehydrator just a blender and a food processor. We decided going forward to stay away from all the supplements and additives as much as we can. Obviously taking the multi-vitamin which covers everything, but would just love to get the eating plan down to where the only supplementation necessary would be for the B12. Yea I know, looking at this through a microscope. But, I am discovering ways to keep things very simple, nutritious, meeting as many so-called daily requirements and not spending a fortune doing it. Plus spending as little time as possible in the kitchen.



Thank you again for the reminders and the ideas. Off to writing so I can pay for the next grocery trip...lol
kencraw is offline  
#15 Old 01-12-2010, 10:50 PM
HNV
Veggie Regular
 
HNV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 802
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly by 3 View Post

20 oranges? For breakfast? 20? Isn't that awfully acidic?



This is a balanced raw diet wtf?



20 oranges (almost 1000 calories) seems to be overkill. Especially for breakfast.

The worst sin toward our fellow creatures is not to hate them, but to be indifferent to them. That is the essence of humanity.
HNV is offline  
#16 Old 01-13-2010, 12:59 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Doktormartini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,456
Quote:
Originally Posted by kencraw View Post

Sprouts is one thing I seriously want to add to our diet. The problem here is that most of the product I am seeing in the stores look bad. I am going down to one of the health/organic stores later this week to look again. We are going to attempt to grow our own here in the apartment but that will not happen for a few months. Just too many things going on...lol

Do Quinoa sprouts because they only take like a day and half. So fast and easy compared to some of the others that take like 3 days. Plus you get all the benefits of Quinoa which is really cool!

“May all sentient beings be free of pain and suffering.  May all sentient beings experience eternal joy and happiness.  gate gate pāragate pārasaṃgate bodhi svāhā.”
http://www.facebook.com/doktormartini
http://twitter.com/#!/MartyBaureis
http://doktormartini.tumblr.com

Doktormartini is offline  
#17 Old 01-13-2010, 01:14 PM
Super Moderator
 
Werewolf Girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 16,664
Quote:
Originally Posted by penny79 View Post

Ken, your diet is very high in fat and low in carbohydrates from fruit. I don't think it's sustainable as-is but it's fine for transition or if you're not active and don't need a high amount of energy.



I get alll nutrients with a high fruit low fat diet. About 2,500 cals from fruit. Our fuel.



How can eating 20 ORANGES in a day not be getting enough fruit? It would take me all day to eat that many oranges and I need my mouth for other things than chewing!

"If we could live happy and healthy lives without harming others... why wouldn't we?" - Edgars Mission
Werewolf Girl is offline  
#18 Old 01-13-2010, 01:53 PM
Veggie Regular
 
penny79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,946
Quote:
Originally Posted by Werewolf Girl View Post

How can eating 20 ORANGES in a day not be getting enough fruit? It would take me all day to eat that many oranges and I need my mouth for other things than chewing!



Ken doesn't eat 20 oranges a day. Did you see what he posted as his intake? It was very little calories from fruit.
penny79 is offline  
#19 Old 01-13-2010, 01:58 PM
Veggie Regular
 
bluegrrrl79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,671
Quote:
Originally Posted by penny79 View Post

Ken doesn't eat 20 oranges a day. Did you see what he posted as his intake? It was very little calories from fruit.



Wait I'm confused, he said 20 oranges for breakfast.
bluegrrrl79 is offline  
#20 Old 01-13-2010, 01:59 PM
Super Moderator
 
Werewolf Girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 16,664
Quote:
Originally Posted by penny79 View Post

Ken doesn't eat 20 oranges a day. Did you see what he posted as his intake? It was very little calories from fruit.



Oh sorry, I misquoted. I was replying to the original post about a reasonable raw vegan day.



My question is still the same though, does 20 oranges literally mean 20 oranges in one sitting?

"If we could live happy and healthy lives without harming others... why wouldn't we?" - Edgars Mission
Werewolf Girl is offline  
#21 Old 01-13-2010, 02:00 PM
Veggie Regular
 
penny79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,946
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegrrrl79 View Post

Wait I'm confused, he said 20 oranges for breakfast.



NO, that was the OP that posted an example he found. Ken's post is further down the page.
penny79 is offline  
#22 Old 01-13-2010, 02:01 PM
Veggie Regular
 
penny79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,946
Quote:
Originally Posted by Werewolf Girl View Post

Oh sorry, I misquoted. I was replying to the original post about a reasonable raw vegan day.



My question is still the same though, does 20 oranges literally mean 20 oranges in one sitting?





Depends on the person and their activity. A lot of high fruit raw people I know train hard, like bike or run for hour(s). So maybe they'd have 10 oranges before and 10 after. I personally eat 6-7 bananas in one sitting. Have a flat stomach afterwards, too. Everyone's different, though.
penny79 is offline  
#23 Old 01-13-2010, 02:08 PM
Super Moderator
 
Werewolf Girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 16,664
Quote:
Originally Posted by penny79 View Post

Depends on the person and their activity. A lot of high fruit raw people I know train hard, like bike or run for hour(s). So maybe they'd have 10 oranges before and 10 after. I personally eat 6-7 bananas in one sitting. Have a flat stomach afterwards, too. Everyone's different, though.



Woah! I've been considering trying raw veganism for awhile but that sounds intimidating! I tend to have a short attention span for food and get full easily and that sounds like a LOT of chewing I'd have to do. How long does an average meal take? Do you ever eat on the go or is it more of a sit down thing every day?

"If we could live happy and healthy lives without harming others... why wouldn't we?" - Edgars Mission
Werewolf Girl is offline  
#24 Old 01-13-2010, 02:10 PM
Veggie Regular
 
penny79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,946
6-7 bananas takes like 15 min. to eat. I eat on the go with smoothies sometimes. It's not like you have to heat. Just peel, cut/chop, and eat.
penny79 is offline  
#25 Old 01-13-2010, 02:15 PM
Super Moderator
 
Werewolf Girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 16,664
Quote:
Originally Posted by penny79 View Post

6-7 bananas takes like 15 min. to eat. I eat on the go with smoothies sometimes. It's not like you have to heat. Just peel, cut/chop, and eat.



Okay I am a REALLY slow eater, I think one banana tends to take me like 10 minutes to get through and 6 or 7 sounds exhausting. I know I don't eat nearly enough fruit though, maybe I should just take it slow and try to increase my speed and intake over time?

"If we could live happy and healthy lives without harming others... why wouldn't we?" - Edgars Mission
Werewolf Girl is offline  
#26 Old 01-13-2010, 02:18 PM
Veggie Regular
 
penny79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,946
Quote:
Originally Posted by Werewolf Girl View Post

Okay I am a REALLY slow eater, I think one banana tends to take me like 10 minutes to get through and 6 or 7 sounds exhausting. I know I don't eat nearly enough fruit though, maybe I should just take it slow and try to increase my speed and intake over time?



Yeah, good idea! Or sipping a smoothie slowly.
penny79 is offline  
#27 Old 01-13-2010, 02:21 PM
Beginner
 
kencraw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 103
Penny - Working on the fruit. lol I did move the calorie count total up to the 2000 mark I was looking for with high counts on the carbs. Still watching the vitamin and mineral counts. The nice thing, for me anyway, is that you don't have to sit and eat all day long. I realize that comes in time for most people but I really wanted to get on board and settled in with a raw food diet quickly. Three regular meals bfast, lunch and dinner. 2 smoothies, and four or five small snacks throughout the day. That is NOT including the fresh fruit juice. I really haven't found a way to get a true count on calories and all for juice. I experiment way too much..hahahaha



But here is what I am finding so far: Physically, even though I was eating vegetarian before, I feel much better. More energy. The first few mornings were rough but that was more of not eating a good mix, especially the fruit as you mentioned. The first grocery bill came in around $150. The main reason for that was due to picking up a different mix of staples for the raw food. The second grocery bill came in under $50 but that is still being worked on. Major costs were tomatoes and berries. I am not spending hardly any time in the kitchen. I would say on average 15 minutes prep. Some longer, some shorter but averaging 15 min per meal. Dishes are a breeze...hahahaha



My personal goal in this is simple. I want the raw food lifestyle for personal health reasons. It just makes sense. Secondly, I have heard people say how expensive eating is and I wanted to show them that it really is not expensive at all. Working on that slowly. main focus is personal health though. Thank you again for the fruit tip Penny
kencraw is offline  
#28 Old 01-13-2010, 02:25 PM
Beginner
 
kencraw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doktormartini View Post

Do Quinoa sprouts because they only take like a day and half. So fast and easy compared to some of the others that take like 3 days. Plus you get all the benefits of Quinoa which is really cool!





Thank you. I will certainly look for the Quinoa
kencraw is offline  
#29 Old 01-13-2010, 10:26 PM
Veggie Regular
 
bluegrrrl79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,671
Quote:
Originally Posted by penny79 View Post

NO, that was the OP that posted an example he found. Ken's post is further down the page.



Ooooh ok thanks! Still, I think I would puke if I ate 20 oranges in a row lol.



Penny can I ask you a question while we're talking about raw diets, could you explain more how you eat? I always see you mentioning eating greens, I'm curious do you just eat them plain or do you use them in recipes/with flavoring? Which greens do you eat? Have you ever put your food into a fitday.com type of thing that tracks calories/nutrients?
bluegrrrl79 is offline  
#30 Old 01-14-2010, 07:36 AM
Veggie Regular
 
penny79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,946
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegrrrl79 View Post

Penny can I ask you a question while we're talking about raw diets, could you explain more how you eat? I always see you mentioning eating greens, I'm curious do you just eat them plain or do you use them in recipes/with flavoring? Which greens do you eat? Have you ever put your food into a fitday.com type of thing that tracks calories/nutrients?



Hey, Blue. I usually do cardio exercise first thing in the morning before eating. I wake up and drink some water. Go to the bathroom. Get dressed to workout. Then I come back and shower, have about 600 calories of fruit usually (this will be typical and not every single day). Maybe some berries and pineapple or maybe just bananas. Then I'll go on about my day, work or whatever I have to do. About 2 hours later, regardless of where I am, I will have about 600 more calories, usually fruit. Maybe melons or grapes, maybe more bananas. Depends on time of year, what's ripe, what I have on hand. I like to eat a salad in the middle of the day, too, but don't always get a chance. I'll have another 600-700 calories after a couple more hours, apples or cherries or pears or oranges. Sometimes a few hours later I'll start my winding down of greens (spinach, kale, romaine, spring mix, easy to digest ones) with no dressing. So I'll make a bowl of spinach and just eat it plain. If my fruit has digested and I want some avocado that day, I'll add that and maybe bell pepper to the salad. NO salt, no dressing (I don't want to be bloated and I want to feel well, so why would I?! ) THroughout the day I drink water, of course. If I'm hungry later after the salad, I'll have more greens or more fruit. Depends on my calorie needs/wants. I go by what I want at the time and what appeals to me.



Yes, I have put my foods in fitday and I do great. A lot better than cooked food samples (vegan, omni, or whatever) I have seen. Everything I eat has good nutritional value, so you can imagine people who fill up on bread and grains aren't getting as muich as someone who eats 10 -15 cups of greens and all that delicious, ripe fruit. I do eat Brazil nuts sometimes, not every day, though, and usually only 2 at a time maybe twice a week. I don't think this is needed but I just do it, anyway. I take a sublingual B12, have since being vegan and learning about nutrition.



I hope that helps! I also, in addition to my regular cardio in the morning, do other workout classes and walk an hour per day. I guess I eat fast or multitask pretty well. I combine lots of things, like on the way home from work, I'm getting produce. I have ltitle to no prep time and few dishes to wash.
penny79 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the VeggieBoards forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in


Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off