Violent movies... - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 09-03-2003, 12:41 PM
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Do you think they contribute to violence in society?

There is so much violence in tv, video games, and movies, especially towards women, but there are some very violent movies I do like.



The re-release of Scarface and the death of Charles Bronson got me thinking about it. I like war movies, but not specifically for the violence. All Quiet on the Western Front (the original) and more recently, Saving Private Ryan. The Accused is one of the most violent movies I've ever seen, but I think it was very well done and an important movie.



I think they can influence society, and individuals as well, and they are a reflection of ourselves; but I don't believe that they cause violence. I believe they can be harmful, especially if the violence is mindless and gratuitous.
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#2 Old 09-03-2003, 12:47 PM
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People all too often blame others for their own problems. Instead of teaching children that what goes on in the movies is fictional and should never be repeated, they'd rather sue Jackass after their kid sets themself on fire. I love gratuitous violence movies! Kill Em all he he. I think that we as a society need to own up to our mistakes and not blame everyone else. What's next saying we tried to kill ourselves over a sappy movie or something?
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#3 Old 09-03-2003, 01:06 PM
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Well it wasn't me

Says the boy with the gun

Sure I pulled the trigger but it needed to be done

Because lifes been killing me ever since it begun

You can't blame me

Cause I'm too young



You can't blame me,

Sure the killer was my son

But I didn't teach him to pull the trigger of the gun

Its the killing on this TV screen

You can't blame me

Its those images he sees



Well you can't blame me,

Says the media man

Well I wasn't the one who came up with the plan

And I just point my camera what the people wanna see

Man, its a two way mirror man, you can't blame me



You can't blame me,

Says the singer of the song

Or the maker of the movie which he based his life on

Its only entertainment as anyone can see

Its smoke machines and makeup man

You can't fool me



It was you, it was me, it was every man

We've all got the blood on our hands

We only receive what we demand

If we want hell then hell is what we'll have





these lyrics completely sum up my position. i don't believe that violence in arts and entertainment causes violence, just that it has an effect like any other experience of ours.



Quote:
Originally Posted by 808veggie View Post

I think that we as a society need to own up to our mistakes and not blame everyone else.



i agree, but this statement should encompass these musicians and artists and movie directors as well. yes, those who cause violence are 100% responsible for their actions, i would never argue otherwise. but those who create violent films are also responsible for their own actions.



ask yourself this question, do you think that people would be less aggressive if they did not watch any violent movies or tv? i would absolutely say yes.
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#4 Old 09-03-2003, 01:15 PM
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But then you could always say that when they finally get to exprience these "acts of violence" whether be on TV, radio or movies, they could blame that for overloading their "good" brain and causing them to be violent. Also the other side of the coin is that there are lots of people who watch & listen to these things and aren't pyschos, getting in trouble or even spitting on the side walk. So it's a two way street. I mean it's also a rebellion factor. Most the kids I knew that got into trouble were fron either "rich" familys that shunned "lower" society or kids whose parents were MAJOR Holy Rollers( see Stephen King's Carrie!).

So basically no matter what you try to not let them do it will happen either way.
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#5 Old 09-03-2003, 01:42 PM
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A bunch of years ago, I can't remember when, I was in Dallas playing polo for one of my patrons. She and I were also very good friends, and I was staying with her for a few days.



He brother came in from Las Vegas with his young child, who, I think, was about 4 or 5 years old. This little boy proceeded to sit down and watch Robocop nonstop. He would watch it over and over again. I couldn't believe it. Here was this little child watching a bunch of thugs shoot off the limbs of a police officer over and over.



Try to convince me that this didn't desensitize this child to other's pain. You never will. It reminded me of Clockwork Orange. This child was being taught, over and over, that this was an OK thing. That the character of the police officer really didn't die, and that his pain wasn't so bad.



I believe that parents are ultimately responsible for whether their children grow up violent or reactionary - to an extent (some people are just born that way, in my mind). I believe that it is the parents job to make sure that Johnny and Sally grow up to understand respect for the rest of the world, and that infliction of pain, on anyone or anything is not acceptable.



The media seems intent upon feeding us the lowest common denominator. It is our job as parents to keep our child sensative. Come ON, how do you think that that little boy in the other post who was splatting baby frogs got the idea that blood and guts was just a game? To pretend that violent images and lyrics in the media is unconsequential is ignorant. Of COURSE it affects those who participate - that's the intent.



I like Eminem. I am a firm believer that Marylin Manson is a true artistic genious. BUT I am older. I am not as easily sucked into believing that what these artists put out is what they encourage. I understand that it is an artist exploration, not a proposed lifestyle. Many children, especially teenagers, are not able to understand this difference. They need help, and nothing will change until the parents step in and help them.
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#6 Old 09-03-2003, 02:23 PM
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i agree with Equipro - there is a difference in how responsible adults react to media violence and how children or teenagers can react - i'm an elementary school teacher, and it is rather disconcerting to see my students running around fake-shooting each other and talking about how much they loved Blade 2 and whatnot.

I remember when I was a kid - my brother is four years younger than me, and we were talking about someone being dead, and he mentioned that at least they had a few more "lives" - as in video game lives. I remember having to explain to him that we didn't get any extra lives.



regarding violence in the media, i only personally like it if i feel that it has some sort of necessity in the plot or theme of the movie. i get grossed out when they show something that totally didn't need to be shown, but is just shown for shock value.
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#7 Old 09-03-2003, 04:31 PM
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Well, tis a difficult one!



I don't think anyone can honestly tell if violent movies really do make individuals violent. Sure, numerous tests have been conducted, but none of them have really come up with anything conclusive.



I believe that films have become an easy scapegoat for many of societys problems, and the media never hesitates to jump on the bandwagon when incidents do occur. A while ago, I remember reading an article in a newspaper about a guy who shot his friend, who was obviously inspired by the character Rambo. In reality, he probably just had a copy of First Blood in his video collection.



And, of course, most folks from the UK will remember the Jamie Bulger case, which occurred 9 or 10 years ago, where the horror movie Childs Play 3 was unfairly condemned for being the motive behind the murder of a young boy.



Put it this way if a person who doesnt own a dog sees an advert for dog food on the TV, it's pretty unlikely that s/hes going to rush out and buy a tin. Similarly, a non-violent person, who has no intention of committing any violent acts, isnt going to do so merely because s/he saw a violent scene in a film.



And, just to add, I grew up watching a great deal of violent movies, and Im as sane as they come!! *twitch*
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#8 Old 09-04-2003, 04:04 PM
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hmm..i dont mind violent movies. boondock saints is my fav. movie ever and i'ts intensley violent.



anyway...i think the whole blaming peoples actions on movies and media and music, etc is for weak, lazy people.



but then again, yes i think they have a part in some of those weak, lazy people's actions. and those weak, lazy people should be quarantined and not allowed in society. but uh, that's noe even the question. or the anwser. or related to any of this stuff.



i think a lot of the blaming 'it' on movies, etc is just an excuse for people who can't admit they are screwy.
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#9 Old 09-04-2003, 04:07 PM
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and i agree with equipro. well said.
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#10 Old 09-04-2003, 04:49 PM
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This thread reminds me of the nonsense about blaming bands like Judas Priest for some messed up kid shooting himself in the head.



The problem is that kids are being raised by other people, not their parents. Parental responsibilities and duties have been unfairly placed on the shoulders of teachers, or a teenage babysitter, the TV, video games, the other kids, etc. Add to this the complete reduction of any discipline in schools these days and kids are basically running wild. When I was a kid and I messed up, I got the "strap" from the Principal. Pride hurts more than the strap. And you can bet I never did it again. We had teachers that took no crap from us. They were unafraid of being sued because they embarassed little precious Johnny and made him cry. And kids, although we tried to get away with stuff, knew that we could only go so far without being disciplined.
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#11 Old 09-04-2003, 05:31 PM
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I would never censor the media.



As someone who grew up on the popular culture of the 80s and 90s, I saw a LOT of violence in TV and movies. I don't think it made me violent or ever think that violence is OK.



But during the last few years, I have come to find the amount of senseless violence dispayed in the media almost unbearable. I just don't want to watch it anymore, none of it. Have a problem? Shoot, kill, yell, kick, beat. I'm not saying it makes us worse, but whenever I watch an action movie like this, I feel like I'm wasting my time. I'm always glad when I see something where the makers didn't settle for the cheap entertaining effect of another hero mass-slaughtering his enemies.



Sometimes of course depiction of violence is necessary and/or OK. But if the sole purpose is entertainment (of the friday night kind), then there sure are so many other things to look at that entertains us and makes us feel better than watching others die on the screen.



It's no wonder that violence as an attraction in movies was discovered so early on. Violence is probably the easiest way to entertain (along with sex), because it addresses the reptilian brain in us, we are compelled to watch it.
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#12 Old 09-04-2003, 05:42 PM
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I've seen tons of things saying that kids who watch violent movies/tv/etc are more prone to act them out then those who don't; regardless of upbringing.



Of course there's me. I watched and listened to what was then pretty bad, but I never once thought it was real. I had a pretty good grasp on what reality is.



What's really bad is this: where I live, more people are hurt mimicking wrestling than anything else. For some reason, people believe that it's real, and that people can be hit repeatedly with chairs without getting brused. Yet to figure this one out...



Maybe it's more of a if it seems to be real, and no one gets hurt (and no one corrects the person) then it's safe to do in real life.
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#13 Old 09-04-2003, 05:53 PM
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Heck, I remember when Bugs Bunny cartoons were edited because they were too violent. I mean come on... this kind of stuff is just beyond ridiculousness.



Leave it to the bleeding hearts to blame a cartoon for being the "cause" of violence.
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#14 Old 09-04-2003, 10:09 PM
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I never really understood this until I had a child. I didn't understand it as a child myself, nor did I understand this as a childless adult (which I was until I was 35). What I didn't understand is that, for a long time in their childhood, all children have a difficult time understanding the difference between "real" and "fake". Ask any 4-year-old if Bambi is a real deer, which can talk, and they will almost all say, "yes". There is a whole world of make-believe that lives in a child's imagination, and the lines of reality are very, very thin.



My daughter is 5, and she still has all sorts of made up scenarios that, to her, are "real". She is greatly influenced by outside stimulus, and this spills over into her real life.



If you see girls (I have very little experience with boy children, so I will stick to what I know) at the prepubescent age, you will see that imagination still plays a large part of their life. Though they understand that Santa Claus isn't a real person, and Bambi is just a cartoon, they will still fantasize about being someone else, or dating a boy they like, or they can see themselves in college or as an adult. Maybe they are hooked on Brittany Spears, and want to be like her, so they dress like her, and listen to her music and try to follow in her footsteps so that they can make part of the fantasy reality. A lot of this is played out with their friends. They can, in many ways, share these fantasies with their friends - they share their crushes, and their dislikes. They gossip and pretend. All of this is still part of a fantasy life that is played out as a reality.



Now lets take a child who is isolated. They have no friends with which to share their fantasies. They are ridiculed. They hate themselves. There is nowhere for them to go. It's not too hard to imagine how their fantasy life might become unduly influenced by the media around them. With no one with which to talk, they rely more and more upon the fantasy "someone" to help them with their fears, pain and loss of dreams. It seems that this would be a time when they would be at the most risk to be violent towards themselves and others, especially if the

videos that they watch solve their problems with violence, and the music that they listen to supports anarchy, violence, revenge and fatalism.



Of course, there are other influences such as abuse, drugs, violence at home, and sexual explotation, but it seems to me that this is where media violence comes to play in violent response and actions from children.





From the time that children are tiny, they start to become desensitized to things around them. "Don't cry and make a fuss, dear, it's only a little scrape". "Do be silly, Mommy would never leave you". That's only a cartoon, honey, they aren't really hurt when they are shot by Superman's x-ray vision". The child starts to ignore things that they would normally worry about or feel, and start to realize that some of this isn't real.



Fast forward to the isolated child. To the one that has had 8-10 years of violence thrown at them through the media. They have been told, over and over again, that the fantasy of violence isn't real. They have been exposed, over and over again to the belief that the best way to solve problems is to use violence. They have become desensitized to what pain other's feel, what death truly is, what the reality of violence is. It is not real to them. If they have no one with which to share their dreams and fears, if they begin to resent those that are not listening to them, if the music and the games seem to be their only friends, their only solace, their only escape, it seems to me that there is a setup there for a big, fat disaster.



I don't want censorship - I don't believe in censorship of art at all. BUT I do think that we have to get real about the whole thing. We are desensitizing our kids to pain and suffering, and we all suffer.



This is a parental issue, in my mind. It is not society's responsibility or the school's responsibility. I don't blame the violence in the media for tragedies, but I do believe that the exposure of our young people to this sort of thing sets them up for results for which there have been no precedent before.
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#15 Old 09-05-2003, 02:37 AM
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Let's just keep saying it's the parents' fault and they need to do a better job with their children, etc. and things will continue on as they have been, with ****ty parents raising ****ty children, who then become ****ty parents themselves...



Or, why not look at it like - for whatever reason many parents are not able to parent properly. Let's help the kids out anyway?



Movies influence children and adults. Depending on what the "cool" character in the film drives, smokes or wears, real life sales go up or down. I think it was Clark Gable who did not wear an undershirt in one film and right after that undershirt sales plummeted - and the non-buyers were adults, not children.



I was about 13 when the film Lifeguard came out. The main character is deflowered by a handsome, 30 something lifeguard. That movie suddenly put ideas in my head about my 30 something English teacher...me and half of my friends. We were influenced.



I have never liked violent movies. I didn't see the exorcist until a few years ago. Violence either bores me, or it makes me scared to walk around my own house at night. I shield my young kids from violent movies, yet I feel that our culture has been shaped by them and my kids have to deal with the kids who have grown up watching them, so my children are not totally protected from them either. It is not THE cause of violence in our society, but it contributes. (I agree with what stonecrest wrote.)
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#16 Old 09-05-2003, 01:42 PM
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I am against censorship of any kind for adults.



However, we are fooling ourselves if we say that we aren't influenced by what we see or hear on film, in books, etc.



We see things in commercials, we go buy them.



We see actors or pop stars wearing the latest fashions, we wear them too.



I, personally, have been profoundly influenced by the books that I have read and the films I have seen (mostly in good ways, I think, but obviously, I'm not an objective source). My views, attitudes about the world, and ideas have been inspired by, shaped, and/or changed by the media.



There is no way that we can avoid being affected, in small ways for some but in much larger ways for others, by the huge amount of violence that we witness in all forms of media.



Why are so many of us in denial about this?
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#17 Old 09-05-2003, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
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Heck, I remember when Bugs Bunny cartoons were edited because they were too violent. I mean come on... this kind of stuff is just beyond ridiculousness.



Leave it to the bleeding hearts to blame a cartoon for being the "cause" of violence.



Is that true about Bugs Bunny or is this one of the urban myths (lies) used to discredit serious debates. What does this have to do with "bleeding hearts"? The only folks I know who are promoting censorship are Christian fundamentalists. And John Ashcroft/George Bush through Ari Fleishcer, "Watch what you say."
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#18 Old 09-05-2003, 01:54 PM
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We had teachers that took no crap from us. They were unafraid of being sued because they embarassed little precious Johnny and made him cry. And kids, although we tried to get away with stuff, knew that we could only go so far without being disciplined.



Those teachers still exist. In fact, they are quite common. They were *******s then and they are *******s now. Sorry, but you have no idea what you're talking about as far as school discipline is concerned.
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#19 Old 09-05-2003, 04:37 PM
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There is no way that we can avoid being affected, in small ways for some but in much larger ways for others, by the huge amount of violence that we witness in all forms of media.



I think that quite a few people ignore other aspects of the media. Many will gleefully deem films as being 'too violent', or a 'bad influence', when there's arguably, and sadly, more violence and bloodshed on the 9 o'clock news.
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#20 Old 09-05-2003, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
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Is that true about Bugs Bunny or is this one of the urban myths (lies) used to discredit serious debates. What does this have to do with "bleeding hearts"? The only folks I know who are promoting censorship are Christian fundamentalists. And John Ashcroft/George Bush through Ari Fleishcer, "Watch what you say."



It is absolutely truth. I am quite a fan of those cartoons and have seen the edited versions of them and the originals. It's a pretty sad state of affairs when Bugs Bunny cartoons are edited for content. In fact, I *still* see the edited versions sometimes on TV while flicking channels.
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#21 Old 09-05-2003, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
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I think that quite a few people ignore other aspects of the media. Many will gleefully deem films as being 'too violent', or a 'bad influence', when there's arguably, and sadly, more violence and bloodshed on the 9 o'clock news.



I hear ya, Gazumper!!
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#22 Old 09-05-2003, 06:12 PM
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Those teachers still exist. In fact, they are quite common. They were *******s then and they are *******s now. Sorry, but you have no idea what you're talking about as far as school discipline is concerned.



To this day I *still* don't think the teacher who made me stay after school and write 250/500 lines on the board was an *******. Or the principal who gave me the strap across the palms of my hands when I screwed up really bad (I threw a rock and broke a big window). Guess what, I never broke another window again or anything like that. Discipline worked quite well.



What's your idea of school discipline? From what I see, it is very common for discipline today to include sending the kid home for a few days so that he can play video games. I'd hardly call that effective.
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#23 Old 09-05-2003, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by The_Gazumper View Post

I think that quite a few people ignore other aspects of the media. Many will gleefully deem films as being 'too violent', or a 'bad influence', when there's arguably, and sadly, more violence and bloodshed on the 9 o'clock news.



Good point and I agree with that. Then again, the News these days is all about ratings to get higher ad revenues.
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#24 Old 09-05-2003, 06:53 PM
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To this day I *still* don't think the teacher who made me stay after school and write 250/500 lines on the board was an *******. Or the principal who gave me the strap across the palms of my hands when I screwed up really bad (I threw a rock and broke a big window). Guess what, I never broke another window again or anything like that. Discipline worked quite well.



What's your idea of school discipline? From what I see, it is very common for discipline today to include sending the kid home for a few days so that he can play video games. I'd hardly call that effective.



Gotta back Robbo up on this one. The teachers I respect to this day were the hard-asses. Based on the behavior of students in schools these days, I would have to say the disciplinary procedures have to take some of the blame (along with inept teachers and administrators).



I'm not Catholic, but if I had a Catholic school nearby, I would have no problem sending the kids there. The nuns know hot to handle their bizness.
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#25 Old 09-07-2003, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
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To this day I *still* don't think the teacher who made me stay after school and write 250/500 lines on the board was an *******. Or the principal who gave me the strap across the palms of my hands when I screwed up really bad .





I don't believe you, Robert. That's bs. You're willing to engage in violence over property and you want me to believe you'd allow some teacher, who you basically know nothing about, to strike your child? I don't think so.

Even if you believe in corporal punishment, I find it more than difficult to believe you would allow anyone but yourself to decide whether or not your child's behavior deserves someone to violate them in such a shaming, if not painful manner.

No. I think Daddy Robert would be at that school, kicking someone's ass if someone struck his little girl.



Tell me I'm wrong.

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Nyaaah
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#26 Old 09-07-2003, 11:13 AM
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I don't believe you, Robert. That's bs. You're willing to engage in violence over property and you want me to believe you'd allow some teacher, who you basically know nothing about, to strike your child? I don't think so.



If my kid messed up and did some of the stuff I did as a kid that warranted a strap across the palms of his hand... yep... no problem. Like I said.. pride is what hurts moreso than the little bit of stingng for a few seconds. And the kid would never do it again, just as I learned my lesson for the same thing.



If I had a daughter... honestly not sure how I'd react. I'm of the school of mind that women/girls are not to be struck at all.
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#27 Old 09-07-2003, 12:42 PM
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If Tame, Jr warranted a paddlin' or palm smack at school, and it was administered within the rules, then so be it.

It would be the same if I had a daughter.

The child in question would also be punished at home.
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#28 Old 09-07-2003, 01:09 PM
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We're getting off track, how about a new thread about physical punishment of children?



For the record, I 100% disagree with it. If my child would ever be subjected such treatment, there would be consequences, I'd try to get that teacher fired/suspended. At the very least I'd have a long (or short?) chat with them. Striking my child goes WAY beyond the mandate I give any teacher in treating my child. Educate, yes. Beating, no.



I too remember teachers who slapped children as *******s. Did I respect them back then? For sure. Do I respect them now? Nope. They're jerks.
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#29 Old 09-07-2003, 01:18 PM
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Educate, yes. Beating, no.



I too remember teachers who slapped children as *******s. Did I respect them back then? For sure. Do I respect them now? Nope. They're jerks.



I am not talking about beating a kid. Where I went to school... if you messed up.. they'd give you a quick slap on the palm with a strap. It stung for a few seconds. But your pride was hurt more.



You were "slapped" as a kid. Tell me something... did you learn your lesson or did you continue to do something that kept getting you in the same trouble.



You're right though... this is indeed off-topic.
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#30 Old 09-07-2003, 01:22 PM
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For the record, I 100% disagree with it. If my child would ever be subjected such treatment, there would be consequences, I'd try to get that teacher fired/suspended. At the very least I'd have a long (or short?) chat with them. Striking my child goes WAY beyond the mandate I give any teacher in treating my child. Educate, yes. Beating, no.



If the school district allows this type of punishment, and the rules are followed, you would, and should, have zero recourse against the teacher. Your best bet would not be putting your child in that school, or getting the policy changed.



I'll drop this, as it is off-topic.
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