"Plants feel emotion" - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 02-01-2015, 01:51 PM
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"Plants feel emotion"

Hi everyone! I'm recently transitioning into Veganism but yesterday someone said to me that plants feel emotion too..so this has been bothering me and lessening my motivation in a sense.

Now I know the argument that they don't have a nervous system, but research has shown that they can react to certain things, such as music, scent..etc This makes me question if they feel sad when eaten? Please give me your thoughts on this, I just want to understand and be reassured lol.

This doesn't mean that it would make it okay to consume animal products, but makes me feel hypocritical because if I'm causing suffering to one thing and being an activist for another..ugh just help pleasee.
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#2 Old 02-01-2015, 02:49 PM
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Maybe this person was saying that plants feel emotion, just to press your buttons? We vegans get this kind of stuff a lot.

Do I believe that plants feel emotion? No.

But there again, the trees in The Lord of the Rings were pretty philosophical so, why not?
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#3 Old 02-01-2015, 03:04 PM
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Someone's said when you are picking a mango it dies so you are killing it. And effectively it's true but we still choose plants as cows scream louder than carrots

it takes guts to be gentle and kind
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#4 Old 02-01-2015, 03:21 PM
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Even if that were true, which it's not, the animal agriculture industry kills more pants than vegans anyway due to how much water, land, and corn the modern animal ag industry uses. So even being vegan you are causing fewer plant deaths than omnis.


And plants do not "feel" sad or pain because they do bout have a brain or anything like a brain. They can rest to various stimuli because it helps in survival, that doesn't mean anything about "feeling." That's a nonsense omni argument that truly stupid people say when they have no other way to justify their moral atrocities.
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#5 Old 02-01-2015, 03:25 PM
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Isn't this based on research by the same guy that said water doesn't like it when people say angry things to it?
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#6 Old 02-01-2015, 03:25 PM
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I like to refer to some of the following sites to help with this one:

https://www.exploreveg.org/programs/...ked-questions/

"There is currently no reason to believe that plants experience pain. Plants have no central nervous systems, nerve endings, and brains. The evolutionary explanation is that animals are able to feel pain so that they can use it for self-protection purposes. For example, if you touch something hot and feel pain, you will immediately move, and also learn that you should not touch that item in the future. Since plants cannot move and do not need to learn to avoid certain things, this sensation would be superfluous. From a physiological standpoint, plants are completely different from mammals. Unlike animals’ body parts, many perennial plants, fruits, and vegetables can be harvested over and over again without dying.

If you are concerned about the impact of vegetable agriculture on the environment, a vegetarian diet is better for the environment than a meat-based one, since the vast majority of grains and legumes raised today are used as feed for cattle. Rather than eating animals, such as cows, who must consume 16 pounds of vegetation in order to convert them into 1 pound of flesh, you can save many more plants’ lives (and destroy less land) by eating vegetables directly."

http://www.upc-online.org/ethics_questions.html

"It is very possible that plants have sensitivities that we do not yet understand. Because plants do not have nervous systems and cannot run away from predators, it has generally been assumed that they do not experience pain and suffering. Recent scientific evidence suggests that the life of plants is more complex than we once thought. However, we do know that birds, mammals and fish have well-developed nervous systems and pain receptors. Like us, they show pleasure and pain and they present comparable evidence of fear and well-being. Animals cry out in pain, they nurse wounded body parts, and they seek to avoid those who have hurt them in the past.
In order to live, one has to eat. However, when we eat animal products, we consume many more plants indirectly than if we ate those plants directly, because the animals we eat are fed huge quantities of grasses, grains, and seeds to be converted into meat, milk, and eggs. As a vegan (one who eats no animal products) you cause fewer beings to suffer and die for you."

http://www.carnism.org/responses-to-...category&id=73

"Most of us would agree that cutting the end off of a carrot and chopping the head off a chicken are not even remotely comparable. But, for argument’s sake, if plants do, in fact, have feelings, then we have a moral obligation to be vegan and eat plants directly rather than via nonhuman animals, since it takes far more plant life to feed the animals that end up being consumed by humans than to feed humans who eat plants directly."


In addition to those arguments, I like to point out that plants are treated far more humanely than animals. They get fresh air, sunlight, water, space, and attention. A great many animals raised for food get barely any or none of these things, are often beaten into submission, have their reproductive parts cut off, are branded, crammed into cages, separated from mother at birth or young age or weaned from them way too soon so humans get Moms milk instead, and many animals never see the light of day. We all have to eat something to survive. I would pick the plant over the animal every time for all the above reasons.
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#7 Old 02-01-2015, 04:11 PM
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The lack of a nervous system of any kind suggests that plants are incapable of sentience/ feeling...This is what current evidence tells us...

Theoretically, even if they did feel pain by being vegan your net plant consumption is actually lower than a meat eater's - huge amounts of plants feed the cows/ pigs/ sheep/ chickens etc that are killed for meat...So even in this hypothetical scenario being vegan is kindest
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#8 Old 02-01-2015, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naturebound View Post
I like to refer to some of the following sites to help with this one:

https://www.exploreveg.org/programs/...ked-questions/

"There is currently no reason to believe that plants experience pain. Plants have no central nervous systems, nerve endings, and brains. The evolutionary explanation is that animals are able to feel pain so that they can use it for self-protection purposes. For example, if you touch something hot and feel pain, you will immediately move, and also learn that you should not touch that item in the future. Since plants cannot move and do not need to learn to avoid certain things, this sensation would be superfluous. From a physiological standpoint, plants are completely different from mammals. Unlike animals’ body parts, many perennial plants, fruits, and vegetables can be harvested over and over again without dying.

If you are concerned about the impact of vegetable agriculture on the environment, a vegetarian diet is better for the environment than a meat-based one, since the vast majority of grains and legumes raised today are used as feed for cattle. Rather than eating animals, such as cows, who must consume 16 pounds of vegetation in order to convert them into 1 pound of flesh, you can save many more plants’ lives (and destroy less land) by eating vegetables directly."

http://www.upc-online.org/ethics_questions.html

"It is very possible that plants have sensitivities that we do not yet understand. Because plants do not have nervous systems and cannot run away from predators, it has generally been assumed that they do not experience pain and suffering. Recent scientific evidence suggests that the life of plants is more complex than we once thought. However, we do know that birds, mammals and fish have well-developed nervous systems and pain receptors. Like us, they show pleasure and pain and they present comparable evidence of fear and well-being. Animals cry out in pain, they nurse wounded body parts, and they seek to avoid those who have hurt them in the past.
In order to live, one has to eat. However, when we eat animal products, we consume many more plants indirectly than if we ate those plants directly, because the animals we eat are fed huge quantities of grasses, grains, and seeds to be converted into meat, milk, and eggs. As a vegan (one who eats no animal products) you cause fewer beings to suffer and die for you."

http://www.carnism.org/responses-to-...category&id=73

"Most of us would agree that cutting the end off of a carrot and chopping the head off a chicken are not even remotely comparable. But, for argument’s sake, if plants do, in fact, have feelings, then we have a moral obligation to be vegan and eat plants directly rather than via nonhuman animals, since it takes far more plant life to feed the animals that end up being consumed by humans than to feed humans who eat plants directly."


In addition to those arguments, I like to point out that plants are treated far more humanely than animals. They get fresh air, sunlight, water, space, and attention. A great many animals raised for food get barely any or none of these things, are often beaten into submission, have their reproductive parts cut off, are branded, crammed into cages, separated from mother at birth or young age or weaned from them way too soon so humans get Moms milk instead, and many animals never see the light of day. We all have to eat something to survive. I would pick the plant over the animal every time for all the above reasons.
Completely agree
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#9 Old 02-01-2015, 04:19 PM
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Thanks guys. It just planted (no pun intended) a guilt in me that's so aggravating.
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#10 Old 02-01-2015, 08:07 PM
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I don't consider myself to be religious, but part of my funky spiritual beliefs is that all life comes with some sort of sentience, whether it's a sort humans recognize or not. I'm not going to try to explain or defend that belief here, and I'm certainly not going to say that it's anything I can back up with any sort of science. However, it's impossible to survive without eating anything. This is something that genuinely bothers me from time to time, and it doesn't make it any easier that even most of the vegan community looks upon non-violence towards plants as a little crazy. I've spent a long time looking into Jain dietary customs, but I think it would be too difficult to adhere to the rules of a religion I respect but don't follow. In the end, I'm comfortable silently thanking my meals before I eat them (sort of like an eccentric hippie's form of saying grace.) If it's something you're really concerned about, do some research into the scientific and spiritual sides of it. (PS: sorry if this seems a little disjointed. I'm trying to change my sleep schedule and woke up WAY too early this morning.)
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#11 Old 02-02-2015, 05:53 AM
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Everything in this world has an energy, a frequency - plants included. They can communicate with each other, they have emotions, I'm just not convinced of a consciousness. Plants can do some mind-blowing stuff though.
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#12 Old 02-02-2015, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by River View Post
That's a nonsense omni argument that truly stupid people say when they have no other way to justify their moral atrocities.
^This exactly.^

I used the same excuse and I have a science background and intellectually KNEW better.
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#13 Old 02-02-2015, 10:05 AM
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Plants do react to sunlight, and the Venus fly trap for example can sense when an insect has landed on it. But based on what I've learned of human anatomy and physiology, something needs a brain to be able to process what they have sensed as pain. Hope this helps!
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#14 Old 02-02-2015, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Taylor Allen View Post
Thanks guys. It just planted (no pun intended) a guilt in me that's so aggravating.
Why would eating plants make you feel guilty, you have to eat something right? I don't know anyone who can subsist on air.
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#15 Old 02-03-2015, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by River View Post
Even if that were true, which it's not, the animal agriculture industry kills more pants than vegans anyway due to how much water, land, and corn the modern animal ag industry uses. So even being vegan you are causing fewer plant deaths than omnis.


And plants do not "feel" sad or pain because they do bout have a brain or anything like a brain. They can rest to various stimuli because it helps in survival, that doesn't mean anything about "feeling." That's a nonsense omni argument that truly stupid people say when they have no other way to justify their moral atrocities.

this.
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#16 Old 02-03-2015, 08:49 PM
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Why would eating plants make you feel guilty, you have to eat something right? I don't know anyone who can subsist on air.

yes but if they can feel pain you would still feel guilty.
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#17 Old 02-04-2015, 10:15 AM
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I believe the ideal veggie diet is to eat the leaves or plants after they die - that is what Gautam Budh used to eat. But that's "Very Difficult" for common people to do. However, the next best thing is to eat vegetables/ cereals, etc. since the plants are at the lowest level of consciousness in the living beings family.

I think it is a matter of - to which level you want to take your resolve & determination!

Hari Om!
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#18 Old 02-04-2015, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AshwaniKantroo View Post
I believe the ideal veggie diet is to eat the leaves or plants after they die - that is what Gautam Budh used to eat. But that's "Very Difficult" for common people to do. However, the next best thing is to eat vegetables/ cereals, etc. since the plants are at the lowest level of consciousness in the living beings family.

I think it is a matter of - to which level you want to take your resolve & determination!

Hari Om!
This is a good way of looking at the problem I think
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#19 Old 02-13-2015, 10:10 PM
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"Plants feel emotion"

Quote:
Originally Posted by AshwaniKantroo View Post
I believe the ideal veggie diet is to eat the leaves or plants after they die - that is what Gautam Budh used to eat. But that's "Very Difficult" for common people to do. However, the next best thing is to eat vegetables/ cereals, etc. since the plants are at the lowest level of consciousness in the living beings family.

I think it is a matter of - to which level you want to take your resolve & determination!

Hari Om!

Actually gautam Buddha said if you are given meat and the animal wasn't specifically killed for you, you could eat it. So presumably he also ate meat.

at least that's what I've read.
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#20 Old 02-14-2015, 01:44 PM
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Is it possible that plants have a soul equal to our own but just very different. They don't feel or think in the same way as we do but it might be happening in a way that we don't understand yet. it is possible?
We are fully dependent on them for food and oxygen... they are very much our very life force. There is something very incredible about that - something-what?
Somebody said they live to be part of our experience... and those that are successful - edible, very much are.
Even carnivores in the wild help them.
They may live a very dramatic existence. ?
There are many things about life we don't understand much and that could be one of them.
Some people think animals don't think but act upon instinct and don't have souls. but they actually aren't nearly as different from us as most people think.

Caring about our health is caring about our very state of being and future which is a very good thing to be seriously concerned about making the most of.

 

http://TRUEHEALTHHAPPENS.COM

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#21 Old 02-16-2015, 01:40 PM
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What Naturebound wrote back on Feb. 1st.
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#22 Old 02-17-2015, 04:34 AM
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What Naturebound wrote back on Feb. 1st.
I agree Tom. If someone can find holes in Naturebound's reasoning, I'd be gob-smacked.

Let's face it, the person quoted by the OP saying "Plants feel emotion too" was almost certainly trying to off-load the guilt they feel for eating animals, onto the OP ie onto somebody (vegan) who doesn't eat animals.

And of course equating the remote theoretical possibility that plants can feel emotions, with the certainty that animals reared for food do feel emotions, helps that person stay with a meat based diet. "Whatever I eat, there may be cruelty involved so I may as well keep on chomping away on meat..."
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#23 Old 02-17-2015, 06:39 AM
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Yes, people often say these sorts of lines: "Whatever I eat, there will be suffering," or "I couldn't possibly cut out all products associated with animal cruelty as there would be nothing left to eat!"...Of course both of these quotes are completely wrong
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#24 Old 02-17-2015, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by rasitha.wijesekera View Post
Actually gautam Buddha said if you are given meat and the animal wasn't specifically killed for you, you could eat it. So presumably he also ate meat.

at least that's what I've read.
Refer to http://online.sfsu.edu/rone/Buddhism/footsteps.htm
wherein, it is clearly stated:
Chapter 2
THE FIVE PRECEPTS
All religions have some basic rules that define what is good conduct and what kind of conduct should be avoided. In Buddhism, the most important rules are the Five Precepts. These have been passed down from the Buddha himself.


1. No killing Respect for life
2. No stealing Respect for others' property
3. No sexual misconduct Respect for our pure nature
4. No lying Respect for honesty
5. No intoxicants Respect for a clear mind

No killing

The Buddha said, "Life is dear to all beings. They have the right to live the same as we do." We should respect all life and not kill anything. Killing ants and mosquitoes is also breaking this precept. We should have an attitude of loving-kindness towards all beings, wishing them to be happy and free from harm. Taking care of the earth, its rivers and air is included. One way that many Buddhists follow this precept is by being vegetarian.
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#25 Old 03-03-2015, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AshwaniKantroo View Post
Refer to http://online.sfsu.edu/rone/Buddhism/footsteps.htm

wherein, it is clearly stated:

Chapter 2

THE FIVE PRECEPTS

All religions have some basic rules that define what is good conduct and what kind of conduct should be avoided. In Buddhism, the most important rules are the Five Precepts. These have been passed down from the Buddha himself.





1. No killing Respect for life

2. No stealing Respect for others' property

3. No sexual misconduct Respect for our pure nature

4. No lying Respect for honesty

5. No intoxicants Respect for a clear mind



No killing



The Buddha said, "Life is dear to all beings. They have the right to live the same as we do." We should respect all life and not kill anything. Killing ants and mosquitoes is also breaking this precept. We should have an attitude of loving-kindness towards all beings, wishing them to be happy and free from harm. Taking care of the earth, its rivers and air is included. One way that many Buddhists follow this precept is by being vegetarian.

The Buddha was not a vegetarian. He did not teach his disciples to be vegetarians and even today, there are many good Buddhists who are not vegetarians. But if you eat meat you are indirectly responsible for the death of a creature.

taken from Buddhists.net
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