Should I stop eating Honey? - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 06-04-2013, 09:56 AM
 
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Hello!

 

I've been wondering, should I cut out Honey from my diet since it is made from an animal? I have about a tablespoon of honey in warm water with lemon and cinnamon every morning and evening... It's really healthy and I love the taste.

 

The thing is, this honey is supposed to be Organic, and I even personally know the woman that produces it. She's an old lady selling it at a Flea Market, and she's really nice. She owns the bees herself, along with her husband. (I think she mentioned she has a husband, but I'm not totally sure.) So I should be allowed to eat this honey, right? I don't think there's any reason for me not to.

 

Also, I live on a farm, as I've mentioned in my introduction. We have our own chickens that produce eggs, is it wrong for me to eat eggs even if they're made from happy, roaming free, and healthy chickens? I could easily cut out eggs if I have to. I haven't had any in a while, anyway.

 

So, what do you think? Would I be considered Vegetarian instead of Vegan if I ate that honey (or the eggs, which matter less to me?) Please share your thoughts!

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#2 Old 06-04-2013, 11:18 AM
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if it's wrong or not should be for you to decide. it's not vegan. i don't eat eggs or honey because i don't think those are things i have a right to take from the animal without their consent and because those animals are often harmed in the process.
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#3 Old 06-04-2013, 11:21 AM
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Honey production does considerable harm and death to bee colonies, even small local productions. The bees own that honey and it is produced for their own good. Therefor it is not vegan to consume honey.

Like bees, the eggs belong to the chicken. If a chicken lays an egg that is not fertilized then the chicken will eat the egg and egg shell to replenish her calcium and protein lost from making the egg.

"owning" and/or exploiting animals is counter-definition to veganism, even if it is not considered to be unusually cruel. By the definition, you are a vegetarian, not vegan.
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#4 Old 06-04-2013, 11:28 AM
 
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Thank you for the information. smiley.gif So do you think I should stop eating eggs and honey, then? I could go easily without eggs, but for me the honey would be a problem, since I love it so much.  Do you have any suggestions that could help with that?

 

I really appreciate your answer, it was helpful.

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#5 Old 06-04-2013, 11:30 AM
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I'm moving this thread to the Transitioning to Vegan forum.

 

As long as you are consuming any animal-derived products, you are not vegan.

 

Bees make honey as food for themselves, including for their young ones. They don't make it as a kindness for human beings. They depend on it to propagate, to expand, to establish new hives, to stay healthy, to increase the bee population, and to interact with other bees in the wild. What is your bee-keeper friend giving them in return, for taking their honey? Is she giving them low-grade sugar water? Is she giving them anything at all? Is she leaving them just enough honey to stay alive, while maintaining a honey-making factory for her benefit? Taking their food disrupts the growth cycle, and traps them into a closed system. Is this any different from caging a chicken, so it can be the most efficient egg-layer?


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#6 Old 06-04-2013, 11:30 AM
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Thank you for the information. smiley.gif So do you think I should stop eating eggs and honey, then? I could go easily without eggs, but for me the honey would be a problem, since I love it so much.  Do you have any suggestions that could help with that?

I really appreciate your answer, it was helpful.

 

If you want to be vegan, then you should drop eggs and honey. If eggs are easy for you, then just simply stop eating them. For honey, if you like the taste of it for certain foods, then agave nectar is a good sub for it. Try it sometime on pancakes or toast nd see how you like it. Maple syrup is often used in place of honey for certain foods as well.
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#7 Old 06-04-2013, 11:35 AM
 
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if it's wrong or not should be for you to decide. it's not vegan. i don't eat eggs or honey because i don't think those are things i have a right to take from the animal without their consent and because those animals are often harmed in the process.


I understand zirpkatze. I don't want to eat eggs anyway, but regardless whether I do or not, my family will. Thank you for your reply. :)

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#8 Old 06-04-2013, 11:45 AM
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Logic, there is a difference between intentionally exploiting an animal and the harm to an animal that is incidental. Walking on the grass (which will kill some insects) is still vegan because it is not done to intentionally harm the insects, and would be impractical for us to just live in doors 24/7 to prevent all incidental harm.
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#9 Old 06-04-2013, 11:48 AM
 
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I'm moving this thread to the Transitioning to Vegan forum.

 

As long as you are consuming any animal-derived products, you are not vegan.

 

Bees make honey as food for themselves, including for their young ones. They don't make it as a kindness for human beings. They depend on it to propagate, to expand, to establish new hives, to stay healthy, to increase the bee population, and to interact with other bees in the wild. What is your bee-keeper friend giving them in return, for taking their honey? Is she giving them low-grade sugar water? Is she giving them anything at all? Is she leaving them just enough honey to stay alive, while maintaining a honey-making factory for her benefit? Taking their food disrupts the growth cycle, and traps them into a closed system. Is this any different from caging a chicken, so it can be the most efficient egg-layer?


I have no idea what the bee-keeper does for her bees, but I hope she at least gives them something. I don't talk to her often at all, really, so you can hardly call her a "friend."

 

I'll try my best to stop eating honey and eggs. From what I gathered here, it's not Vegan. I just thought that it'd be a bit more humane than eating eggs and honey from main brand companies. Thank you for the information, it is much appreciated. :) I agree with everything you are saying here.

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#10 Old 06-04-2013, 11:51 AM
 
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If you want to be vegan, then you should drop eggs and honey. If eggs are easy for you, then just simply stop eating them. For honey, if you like the taste of it for certain foods, then agave nectar is a good sub for it. Try it sometime on pancakes or toast nd see how you like it. Maple syrup is often used in place of honey for certain foods as well.

 



I'll stop eating eggs and honey. We have some Maple syrup here, and I love the taste of that as well, plus I found a lot of delicious looking recipes online that I can make with it.

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#11 Old 06-04-2013, 11:51 AM
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Logic, there is a difference between intentionally exploiting an animal and the harm to an animal that is incidental. Walking on the grass (which will kill some insects) is still vegan because it is not done to intentionally harm the insects, and would be impractical for us to just live in doors 24/7 to prevent all incidental harm.


 MOD POST- Logic's post has been deleted, because it is not permitted to discourage veganism within the Vegan Forums.


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#12 Old 06-04-2013, 12:00 PM
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 MOD POST- Logic's post has been deleted, because it is not permitted to discourage veganism within the Vegan Forums.
The OP is asking a question....so what you're saying is that only one answer is allowed? Furthermore, there isn't agreement on this matter by vegan groups. For example, vegan outreach considers the use of honey of "personal choice":

http://www.veganoutreach.org/guide/qa.html#whatabouthoneyandsilk

Has veggie boards decided to settle with one side of this argument? Is this in the TOS? Or....are are you deleting my posts because you disagree with them personally?
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#13 Old 06-04-2013, 12:11 PM
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I'll stop eating eggs and honey. We have some Maple syrup here, and I love the taste of that as well, plus I found a lot of delicious looking recipes online that I can make with it.

Oh, almost forgot, bootstrap molasses is very good for you, and is often mixed with a glass of water as a drink by vegans replacing honey. I have yet to try it, but thanx to you, I remembered the advice and may try it myself. Odd how stuff like hat sometimes works, huh? smiley.gif
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#14 Old 06-04-2013, 12:21 PM
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I don't have much time to comment, except maybe someone can link her to the long honey thread here...

 

I personally think animals exist for their own reasons, and I prefer not to do anything that may harm them.  I don't know this beekeeper's practices - how much of the honey she leaves for them, if she kills the queen, how many get crushed in being smoked out of the hive, etc.  I think it's wrong that we talk about honey being so great for us humans, so we take it from them and leave them with sugar water.

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#15 Old 06-04-2013, 12:23 PM
 
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Oh, almost forgot, bootstrap molasses is very good for you, and is often mixed with a glass of water as a drink by vegans replacing honey. I have yet to try it, but thanx to you, I remembered the advice and may try it myself. Odd how stuff like hat sometimes works, huh? smiley.gif


I ate molasses on many occasions, it's really good, and I agree, you should definitely try it. tongue3.gif

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#16 Old 06-04-2013, 12:27 PM
 
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Despite what you're hearing here, there is disagreement as to whether honey is vegan or not, see this from vegan outreach:

http://www.veganoutreach.org/guide/qa.html#whatabouthoneyandsilk

 

Well, Logic, for now I think I'm going to quit honey for a bit, until I know more about the subject.

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#17 Old 06-04-2013, 12:34 PM
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The OP is asking a question....so what you're saying is that only one answer is allowed? Furthermore, there isn't agreement on this matter by vegan groups. For example, vegan outreach considers the use of honey of "personal choice":

http://www.veganoutreach.org/guide/qa.html#whatabouthoneyandsilk

Has veggie boards decided to settle with one side of this argument? Is this in the TOS? Or....are are you deleting my posts because you disagree with them personally?

 

VeggiBoards has adopted the meaning of vegan, as being the same one supported by the Vegan Society (who invented the word,) the American Vegan Society and the Oxford English Language Dictionary, all of whom define the word as being a total abstinence from all animal products, including honey. You may read about it here.


"There is more wisdom in the song of a bird, than in the speech of a philosopher...." -Oahspe
"The thing is, you cannot judge a race. Any man who judges by the group is a pea-wit. You take men one at a time." -Buster Kilrain, The Killer Angels -Michael Shaara
"Anyone who doesn't believe in miracles isn't a realist." -Billy Wilder
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#18 Old 06-04-2013, 12:43 PM
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VeggiBoards has adopted the meaning of vegan, as being the same one supported by the Vegan Society (who invented the word,) the American Vegan Society and the Oxford English Language Dictionary, all of whom define the word as being a total abstinence from all animal products, including honey.
Yes, I'm fully aware that some groups consider honey to be non-vegan while other groups consider it okay. So you seem to be suggesting that veggie boards and decided to side with one side of the debate and disallow any discussion on the matter? That isn't clear from reading what linked to, after all it says:

"Vegans will also not eat processed foods containing animal-derived ingredients such as gelatin or honey - although to eat or not to eat honey is widely debated in the vegan community. "

So again, veggie boards has decided to forbid debate on an issue that it admits is "widely debated in the vegan community"? That seems rather strange. To further avoid disrupting this thread on this issue, I created this one:

https://www.veggieboards.com/t/141199/cannot-discuss-honey-in-the-vegan-forum
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#19 Old 06-04-2013, 12:45 PM
 
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By all means, if you don't want to eat honey don't eat honey....but don't stop eating it because some people on a forum are telling you you won't be a "real" vegan if you do. The issue, as I pointed out, is disagreed on and different organizations have different positions on the issue. Its going to be something you personally decide and I tried to give you the argument "for honey" but it was unfortunately deleted. You can find arguments, both for and against, by searching for them.


I'll think about it, and decide on my own. Thanks.

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#20 Old 06-04-2013, 04:12 PM
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I'll think about it, and decide on my own. Thanks.

No reply from me needed, just wanted to bump what you said. I always applaud thought.
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#21 Old 06-04-2013, 05:42 PM
 
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No reply from me needed, just wanted to bump what you said. I always applaud thought.

Haha, thanks.

 

I've decided that I'll stop eating honey. If scientists or someone ever finds out a great reason to start consuming honey again, I might, but for now I'm going to ignore it.

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