Is it hypocritical to own carnivorous pets? - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 06-04-2009, 09:34 AM
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If you get a dog you have to either:



A) feed it animals that have been slaughtered by humans



B) feed it a vegan diet



or



C) move to the country and let it hunt for itself



Should only people who are able to do option 'C' own dogs?
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#2 Old 06-04-2009, 09:46 AM
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No...because I believe humans don't need meat to survive and be healthy as I see us as more herbivourous in nature. If an animal is built to hunt it's own food and requires it for health and nutrition then we cannot go against it's nature.



I know I wouldn't be able to take down a cow with my flat grinding teeth and flat thin nails, it would probably just be a source of amusement, especially when I attempt a crocodile 'death roll.'



All humour aside...With my cat I cannot afford to feed him anything besides the supermarket stuff, but in reality he eats a variety so at least it isn't in large amounts.
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#3 Old 06-04-2009, 09:56 AM
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Do a quick search about carnivore pets. There are a ton of threads on this, we had one recently!
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#4 Old 06-04-2009, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by KellyBon View Post

Do a quick search about carnivore pets. There are a ton of threads on this, we had one recently!



This was what I was going to say.
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#5 Old 06-04-2009, 10:19 AM
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Oh, I honestly thought I was the only one who'd ever thought about this.
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#6 Old 06-04-2009, 10:21 AM
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Lots of people think about it! It's been debated here countless times, you might find some of the threads interesting.
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#7 Old 06-04-2009, 11:39 AM
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Although part of the order "carnivora", dogs are not carnivorous. Many animals that are also part of the same order are herbavores, such as the panda. However, a dog is an omnivore. Cats are carnivorous though.
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#8 Old 06-04-2009, 07:00 PM
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I'd preferably go with option B. Or at least a veggie diet. I'd like some eggs in there, personally.



But dogs are fine on a veg diet. They are omnis, like us.
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#9 Old 06-04-2009, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by MeatlessGourmet View Post

Although part of the order "carnivora", dogs are not carnivorous. Many animals that are also part of the same order are herbavores, such as the panda. However, a dog is an omnivore. Cats are carnivorous though.



interesting, I wonder if anyone has told the wolves, coyotes, and other canids that.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_Wolf#Dietary_habits
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#10 Old 06-04-2009, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by havocjohn View Post

interesting, I wonder if anyone has told the wolves, coyotes, and other canids that.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_Wolf#Dietary_habits

It probably means that dogs can live on a vegetarian diet if they are fed one, but that is not what is optimal for them (like wolves in the wild). For example, if you lived in the wild there is probably a 99% chance you couldn't live on a vegan diet or probably even a vegetarian diet.

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#11 Old 06-04-2009, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Doktormartini View Post

It probably means that dogs can live on a vegetarian diet if they are fed one, but that is not what is optimal for them (like wolves in the wild). For example, if you lived in the wild there is probably a 99% chance you couldn't live on a vegan diet or probably even a vegetarian diet.



what it means is if dogs were feral and or allowed to hunt for their own food they would go after animals, just like their wild cousons. However since they tend to live with humans they are subjected to the whims of the owner, and as such can be trained/forced to eat a veg#n diet. Some dogs will do fine and most probably not.
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#12 Old 06-04-2009, 07:57 PM
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I think it's hypocritical to feed a vegan diet to a carnivorous animal.
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#13 Old 06-04-2009, 08:05 PM
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I think feeding Tom Cruise to a bunch of crocodiles isn't hypocritical.

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#14 Old 06-05-2009, 01:49 AM
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Dogs, if properly fed, can be vegan.



Cats, OTOH, are true carnivores. Excluding synthetic amino acids, they *need* meat to survive.



The ancestors of cats have been eating meat for so long that they lost the ability to synthesize an essential amino acid called "taurine".
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#15 Old 06-05-2009, 01:59 AM
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Option c is not a good option either. By introducing husbanded animals into the wild, you are messing up the ecology. This is especially true if large numbers of such dogs are hunting for wild food. They are unfairly competing with natural predators, who don't have the advantaages that husbanded dogs have, such as a warm place to stay and sleep and recuperate from the stress of hunting, grooming to remove fleas and other energy-sapping parasites. There is no way a wolf can compete with a dog who is cared for by a human and has less worries.
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#16 Old 06-05-2009, 02:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Digger View Post

I think it's hypocritical to feed a vegan diet to a carnivorous animal.



Yes!
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#17 Old 06-05-2009, 09:09 PM
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personally i believe if you are vegan because of animal rights issues then you shouldnt own ANY pets. if you do you're a hypocrite.



i dont care if its never caged or leashed, if it has to rely on you to exist or if you have it trained to obey you in any shape form or fashion you are taking away a part of its very nature.
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#18 Old 06-05-2009, 09:18 PM
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Dogs and cats have been domesticated. You do understand that, don't you? They can't be left to fend for themselves.
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#19 Old 06-05-2009, 09:26 PM
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it doesnt matter. if you are a vegan due to animal rights issues you should be for taking the "domesticated" aspect out of dogs and cats.



neither species NEEDS humans to survive. put either species back into the wild without mans interference and within a generation or two the "domesticated" part will be gone.



one needs only to spend a bit of time in the country where "domesticated" dogs have turned feral to see that this is indeed fact.
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#20 Old 06-05-2009, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Suicide Barbie View Post

personally i believe if you are vegan because of animal rights issues then you shouldnt own ANY pets. if you do you're a hypocrite.



i dont care if its never caged or leashed, if it has to rely on you to exist or if you have it trained to obey you in any shape form or fashion you are taking away a part of its very nature.



The problem with this is that animals like dogs and cats have been domesticated and are no longer the animals they would have been had not people interfered with their nature thousands of years ago.



Neither my dog or cat could live in this world on their own for very long. In fact I saved my cat from the life you are suggesting for her. I found her up in the mountains while berry picking. A dangerous place for a 6 lb 15 yr old cat.
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#21 Old 06-05-2009, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Suicide Barbie View Post

it doesnt matter. if you are a vegan due to animal rights issues you should be for taking the "domesticated" aspect out of dogs and cats.



neither species NEEDS humans to survive. put either species back into the wild without mans interference and within a generation or two the "domesticated" part will be gone.



one needs only to spend a bit of time in the country where "domesticated" dogs have turned feral to see that this is indeed fact.



I asked my huskies just now if they'd like that. They both said hell no, they like AC too much.
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#22 Old 06-05-2009, 10:00 PM
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So since my cat has me trained.... does that mean I'm the cat's domesticated human pet?





But as I see that until the environment is returned to the animals, their actual habitat is in our homes with us. As long as they're treated well, and basically played with and communicated with on a non-human level (as in humans actually listen and see what they do so the human's trained, not the animal, but is otherwise the top one)...
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#23 Old 06-05-2009, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Wolfie View Post

I asked my huskies just now if they'd like that. They both said hell no, they like AC too much.



our pit will roll on her back by the vents and whine if she thinks it's a little too warm. She also likes to sit directly in front of fans.
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#24 Old 06-05-2009, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Huckleberry View Post

A dangerous place for a 6 lb 15 yr old cat.



The fact that she was 15 when you found her goes a long way towards proving my point.
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#25 Old 06-05-2009, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by KellyBon View Post

Do a quick search about carnivore pets. There are a ton of threads on this, we had one recently!

I was just thinking the same thing. Seriously had a loooong one not that long ago
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#26 Old 06-05-2009, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by havocjohn View Post

interesting, I wonder if anyone has told the wolves, coyotes, and other canids that.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_Wolf#Dietary_habits



Perhaps you would listen to a vet......since I'm doubting that you're one.....





(From an email response to the question of dogs being looked upon as carnivorous or omnivorous in the newsletter of the American Academy of Veterinary Nutrition.)



According to Rebecca Remillard, DVM, a Specialist in Veterinary Nutrition:

"Canines are in the order Carnivora, but I think their feeding behaviors are best described as omnivorous. The term carnivore applies to their taxonomic classification, not their feeding behavior. Taxonomically, dogs are members of the order Carnivora, a very diverse group, that includes 12 families of more than 260 species, some of which are herbivorous mammals (the panda). There are three types of feeding behavior (omnivorous, herbivorous and carnivorous) all of which can be found among different members of the order Carnivora."



Despite its descent from wolves, the domestic dog is an omnivore, though it is classified in the order Carnivora. Unlike an obligate carnivore, such as a member of the cat family with its shorter small intestine, a dog is neither dependent on meat-specific protein nor a very high level of protein in order to fulfill its basic dietary requirements. Dogs are able to healthily digest a variety of foods, including vegetables and grains, and can consume a large proportion of these in their diet. In the wild, canines often eat available plants and fruits.



Or perhaps you'd listen to the ASPCA:



http://www.aspca.org/pet-care/ask-th...rian-dogs.html
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#27 Old 06-06-2009, 01:33 AM
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The fact that she was 15 when you found her goes a long way towards proving my point.



Sorry, NOT! She was thirsty and crying beside the side of the road. She was not feral, she wanted to come with me because the previous humans that had dumped her there to die had taken care of her until that point. Her age was an estimate made by the vet.
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#28 Old 06-06-2009, 06:20 AM
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O.K., but . . .



first off, you would be amazed at how quickly an animal's instincts kick in. don't say a domesticated animal couldn't revert to being wild because i have seen it happen over and over again.



secondly, its called nature, survival of the fittest. by having a domesticated animal you are putting a cog in the wheel of evolution. sure some domesticated animals wouldn't survive very long (neither do the animals who are slaughtered and bagged for pet food), while others would thrive and as i said, within a generation or two all the domestication would be gone.



i have a great Pyrenees who has never been trained to fend for himself. while he is domesticated, his instinct is to kill and eat anything that moves . . .



i have a cocker spaniel who has never been trained to hunt. his instinct is the same.



both these animals have been bred to be domesticated animals and both still have the hunting instinct.



i think if you took most aniimals and put them in a prey rich environment you would find their instincts kick in rather quickly and what humans percieve to be true about domesticated animals isnt true at all . .



have you ever seen a school to train cats to catch mice? of course not, yet how often do people bring kittens home at 6 weeks old and months or years later have the cat kill a mouse??



its their INSTINCT!



i think people use the "domesticated" label as a justification for their keeping an animal far too much.
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#29 Old 06-06-2009, 06:37 AM
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My tarantulas all eat crickets or locusts. they only eat live prey so that is what they must be fed. when people ask i say that I can choose what to eat, but they cannot. I feed them what they need and don't eat what I chose not to.

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#30 Old 06-06-2009, 06:52 AM
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feeding slaughtered meat to a carnivore from an animal's choice perspective has never made sense to me since it means human's kill other sentient animals for their meat without their consent
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