The American election process, chaotic and woundup? - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 10-28-2008, 03:45 AM
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When you Americans are listening to news reports about election frauds, malfunctioning voting machines, and chaos at the polls, do you ever wonder what those countries to whom "you would like to export democracy", are thinking about the idea? As a Canadian, we sit here on the north side of the border and are just amazed that you guys go on and on and on.... Our elections are called and 30 days later we vote. Calm, relatively undramatic...



Maybe if you had shorter election processes, you wouldn't see the kind of polarizing and hostility that is currently in evidence.
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#2 Old 10-28-2008, 03:59 AM
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election frauds

Partisan conspiracy theory! Everyone plays fair and square.

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#3 Old 10-28-2008, 04:32 AM
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Maybe if you had shorter election processes, you wouldn't see the kind of polarizing and hostility that is currently in evidence.



I think the length of the campaign is a big negative.



In the case of this years election, Obama declared his candidacy 21 months ahead of the election. Because of his success in fundraising, I expect the opponents of whoever wins the election this year to set up internet fundraising web sites as early as a year into the next Presidential term.



And it allows too much time for the conspiracy theorists to freak out.
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#4 Old 10-28-2008, 04:36 AM
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I once missed an election here, because I didn't notice it. I rarely watch TV and when there are ads on the radio I switch the station or turn it off. Nobody I knew talked to or near me about it, I don't read newspapers and the internet doesn't care.



American politics is loltastic by comparison.
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#5 Old 10-28-2008, 08:32 AM
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Maybe if you had shorter election processes, you wouldn't see the kind of polarizing and hostility that is currently in evidence.



With that kind of un-american rhetoric, you should move to Canada.





Why do I feel the need to express the jest in my post? Jest.
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#6 Old 10-28-2008, 09:13 AM
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It should definitely be a shorter time span. Regarding your other comments, I feel Democracy should not be forced onto any other country. Even in the US, only around 50% of eligible voters vote. It shows a lot of Americans don't care for Democracy too much and I would assume there are a lot of people worldwide who feel that way. You don't even know how the citizens of any country feel about democracy, so why would you force it onto any country? My guess is our wars are really being fought for completely different reasons, but I'm certainly one of the many Americans who doesn't feel it should be exported if that is the real reasoning.
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#7 Old 10-28-2008, 10:47 AM
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Think the elections in the USofA were funny
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#8 Old 10-28-2008, 11:58 AM
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From an outside perspective the length of time this campaign has been going on for is insane.

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#9 Old 10-28-2008, 12:59 PM
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Even in the US, only around 50% of eligible voters vote. It shows a lot of Americans don't care for Democracy too much



Or maybe because the other 50% (or at least some of them - the more intelligent ones) realised a long time ago that the so-called "democracy" that is shoved down their face has little to do with real democracy.



A wise old man who I knew when I was a kid used to say to me, when we would discuss politics, religion and other such serious things "Diana, democracy would be a great idea, but it's never been tried."
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#10 Old 10-28-2008, 01:33 PM
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[QUOTE=troub]With that kind of un-american rhetoric, you should move to Canada.





My post, coming to you from your neighbor to the north, shows that I don't have far to move. I am happily and securely ensconced in Nova Scotia, Canada. So it stands to reason that it is "un-american" rhetoric.



I am curious though to know what exactly you found un-american, assuming that I was American?
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#11 Old 10-28-2008, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by rainforests1 View Post

It should definitely be a shorter time span. Regarding your other comments, I feel Democracy should not be forced onto any other country. Even in the US, only around 50% of eligible voters vote. It shows a lot of Americans don't care for Democracy too much and I would assume there are a lot of people worldwide who feel that way. You don't even know how the citizens of any country feel about democracy, so why would you force it onto any country? My guess is our wars are really being fought for completely different reasons, but I'm certainly one of the many Americans who doesn't feel it should be exported if that is the real reasoning.



Your comments seem very reasonable and I think that combined with Diana's, do suggest an interesting perspective. The concept of democracy is a good one and maybe if a true democracy were operating in North America (minus the hostility and angst of course), maybe more populations around the world would be open to it and would be inviting it in.
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#12 Old 10-28-2008, 02:46 PM
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Anyone who's read the U.S. Constitution knows, it guarantees, "...a republican form of government," not a democratic one. I'd like to see the Constitution amended to create some real democracy. I'd like to see the polls opened more often, and Americans get to vote on actual legislation; for example, I think the U.S. should not be allowed to deploy troops overseas, without there being a popular vote first. In spite of what many Americans say (since they know they have no real voice anyway,) I believe we would go to war far less often, because it would be up to us, instead of the "pros" in D.C.



There's certainly no harm in having long campaign periods; it may even be a good thing, in the long run, so to speak.



How's the weather up there?

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#13 Old 10-28-2008, 03:46 PM
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I was going to post that democracy in America would suck then realized that the chance of two people agreeing on a definition of democracy is unlikely so why bother.
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#14 Old 10-28-2008, 04:34 PM
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Anyone who's read the U.S. Constitution knows, it guarantees, "...a republican form of government," not a democratic one. I'd like to see the Constitution amended to create some real democracy. I'd like to see the polls opened more often, and Americans get to vote on actual legislation; for example, I think the U.S. should not be allowed to deploy troops overseas, without there being a popular vote first. In spite of what many Americans say (since they know they have no real voice anyway,) I believe we would go to war far less often, because it would be up to us, instead of the "pros" in D.C.



There's certainly no harm in having long campaign periods; it may even be a good thing, in the long run, so to speak.



How's the weather up there?



Why do you think a long campaign is good? In Canada we get it done in around 30 days.



As for the weather here, today it is very warm 17.5 degrees centigrade (63 farenheit), raining and a warm wind blowing steadily. It is like being in a windy sauna.
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#15 Old 10-28-2008, 04:43 PM
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Anyone who's read the U.S. Constitution knows, it guarantees, "...a republican form of government," not a democratic one. I'd like to see the Constitution amended to create some real democracy. I'd like to see the polls opened more often, and Americans get to vote on actual legislation; for example, I think the U.S. should not be allowed to deploy troops overseas, without there being a popular vote first. In spite of what many Americans say (since they know they have no real voice anyway,) I believe we would go to war far less often, because it would be up to us, instead of the "pros" in D.C.

That sounds like a good idea. Around World War 2 and before that, most Americans used to be against going into foreign wars, but it's much different today. I think the average American is much more pro-war today than most Americans would like to believe.
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#16 Old 10-28-2008, 05:30 PM
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Why do you think a long campaign is good? In Canada we get it done in around 30 days.



Well, the longer one has to get to know a stranger who wants to represent one's interests for several years, the more likely one is to be well informed about who they are. Is 30-days really long enough to make a well-reasoned decision about someone you don't know and are likely never to meet? If it's the only chance you have to participate, why rush it? Like I say, there's no harm in lengthy campaigns, so why restrict them? They have nothing to do with the polling process.

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#17 Old 10-28-2008, 06:35 PM
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That sounds like a good idea. Around World War 2 and before that, most Americans used to be against going into foreign wars, but it's much different today. I think the average American is much more pro-war today than most Americans would like to believe.



The American people can be every bit as wrong as the politicians can be. Or as right. Still I think, the broader the decision-making base, the better. With several millions, who have no political aspiration, deciding, rather than a few hundred hard-core professionals, with political strings tied 'round their necks, the odds seem longer the right decision will be made. By 'right' I mean, the one that will benefit the majority, instead of the elite, or the elite's concept of what's best for the majority.



I question whether Americans today are so pro-war. All the polls indicate a big majority now believe invading Iraq was a mistake. The question is, had we been given the choice (which we weren't,) would we have gone? Just for the record, I was opposed to it from the beginning.

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#18 Old 10-28-2008, 06:44 PM
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Well, the longer one has to get to know a stranger who wants to represent one's interests for several years, the more likely one is to be well informed about who they are. Is 30-days really long enough to make a well-reasoned decision about someone you don't know and are likely never to meet? If it's the only chance you have to participate, why rush it? Like I say, there's no harm in lengthy campaigns, so why restrict them? They have nothing to do with the polling process.



Because they are all well-known politicians before they are put up as a presidential candidate. They are not "strangers" or newbies to the political arena, these people have been in politics a long time. Long campaigns just waste money.

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#19 Old 10-28-2008, 07:31 PM
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Because they are all well-known politicians before they are put up as a presidential candidate. They are not "strangers" or newbies to the political arena, these people have been in politics a long time. Long campaigns just waste money.



Life wastes money too. Should we limit its time-span? Computer-use wastes money. Do we restrict its use? A lot of people have nothing of value to say, including certain politicians. Do we control their speech?



Not this guy.

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#20 Old 10-28-2008, 07:44 PM
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I think this particular campaign has been long. It seems longer than the last two we had. I think because of the historical aspect of it the media paid more attention from the initial stages than they otherwise might not have. Plus the Democratic primary was draining with Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton. The actual presidential election phase from the time we choose the candidates to the actual election isn't long 2 months (Republican Convention ended on Sept. 4). We have 3 presidential debates, one Vice Presidential one and that's basically it. The time before that like the primaries and announcing you are going to run are long to give America time to know the canidates and their policies. I don't mind longer elections because I don't think a month is long enough to know a canidate and how his or hers policies will effect us.



Oh yea Barack Obama was unknown when he announced he was running for Presdient he had just been elected to the senate a couple of years ago. Gov. Palin wasn't known either before she was picked for Vice President she had only been Gov of Alaska for a couple of years as well.
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#21 Old 10-28-2008, 08:10 PM
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I'd hardly called Governor and Sentators "unknown", especially if they have been around a few years.

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#22 Old 10-28-2008, 08:46 PM
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I'd hardly called Governor and Sentators "unknown", especially if they have been around a few years.



What does a voter in Tennessee or Idaho know about a Senator or Governor from Pennsylvania or Vermont? That makes no sense. I'd never heard of Obama, Palin or Biden until they started their campaigns.



Exactly how would you limit campaign duration?

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#23 Old 10-28-2008, 09:05 PM
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I dunno why it makes no sense. I certainly keep abreast of political issues not in just other states, but in other countries.

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#24 Old 10-28-2008, 09:14 PM
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Personally I would have a really hard time keeping track of every senator and every governor from all 50 states...not to mention what each person stands for and where they are on the political spectrum. I live in California and am well-educated but didn't know anything about Obama until this election started. It's unreasonable for most people who have busy lives and careers to keep up with every senator and governor in the country! I am all for being informed, but that is kinda crazy.
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#25 Old 10-28-2008, 09:21 PM
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I'm not expecting people to know intimate details of the lives of all politicians but I'm very surprised that people have "never heard" of State Senators. To me general knowledge of current events is an essential part of any life, no matter how busy (can't be that bad if you are posting on the internet). It shouldn't, people are often suprisingly uninformed about their own country.

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#26 Old 10-28-2008, 09:24 PM
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I dunno why it makes no sense. I certainly keep abreast of political issues not in just other states, but in other countries.

Agreed. Everything a representative does while in office is a matter of public record. All people need to do is bestir themselves to do a little research.

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#27 Old 10-29-2008, 04:44 AM
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Well, the longer one has to get to know a stranger who wants to represent one's interests for several years, the more likely one is to be well informed about who they are. Is 30-days really long enough to make a well-reasoned decision about someone you don't know and are likely never to meet? If it's the only chance you have to participate, why rush it? Like I say, there's no harm in lengthy campaigns, so why restrict them? They have nothing to do with the polling process.





In Canada, there are four main political groups. Each group is represented in each province by an elected person. At election time, each province votes for which of those four people you want to represent your province. Whoever is chosen becomes that provinces member of parliament. He/she wins a seat in the House (of Parliament). The ones who don't get elected as representative in the province continue to represent their constituents and provide communication between the people and that party.



And each of those parties has one nominated leader (whose face you will see on tv on a regular basis). Yes 30 days is long enough to know who you are voting for if you pay attention to whats going on through the year.
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#28 Old 10-29-2008, 06:47 AM
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I was going to post that democracy in America would suck then realized that the chance of two people agreeing on a definition of democracy is unlikely so why bother.



I think a good definition of so-called "democracy" as we know it would be the opportunity to hand over your own personal power to either a turd sandwich or a giant douche. (Those South Park kids are smart!!!)
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#29 Old 10-29-2008, 09:10 AM
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I'm not expecting people to know intimate details of the lives of all politicians but I'm very surprised that people have "never heard" of State Senators. To me general knowledge of current events is an essential part of any life, no matter how busy (can't be that bad if you are posting on the internet). It shouldn't, people are often suprisingly uninformed about their own country.



That's easy to say when you only have 6 states.
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#30 Old 10-29-2008, 09:16 AM
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I dunno why it makes no sense. I certainly keep abreast of political issues not in just other states, but in other countries.



Good for you, but you still haven't said how you would restrict campaign duration. How would the Kiz System work?



When a candidate, whether Senator, Governor or whatever, runs for office, he runs, not as an elected official, but as a private citizen. The government has no right to restrict it citizens, without good cause. The argument, "...it wastes money," isn't valid, because the money is owned by the private sector, not the government. Citizens may do with their money whatever they want, even if it means tying up the airwaves with campaign commercials.



If you have a real plan for campaign reform, I'd be interested in hearing it, but in the meantime, I don't advocate more government control over the people.

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