Why are people vegetarions for ethical reasons - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 08-12-2008, 11:12 PM
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Okay what i am about to say has probally been refuted and made fun of in countless threads probally called Stupid things omnivares say or somthing. But im about to state my openion anyways and hopefully we can have a civilized conversation anyways. Ethical" vegetarians who consume ANY dairy/eggs are hypocrites



First if you are vegan/vegetarion for health reason im all for you but i think being vegetarion for ethical reasons are crazy and fanatic since ive been reasearching vegetarianism ive been seeing videos from peta and i honestly think these people think of animals as thier lord they pratically worship animals .



An Ethical pure vegetarian does not eat meat because it involves killing an animal. They do not drink milk because it comes from an animal and that is explotation. They do not eat honey because that comes from bees and it is exploiting the bees.



Blueberries and most other fruits come from bees that Pollinate them. Is it ethical to explot bees to produce blueberries? This is not a natural process, the bees are imported to an area and moved around by industrial apiaries. Thousands of bees will die in the process and the honey they produce is taken away.



Are blueberries therefore an unethical food product because animals are exploited and harmed in their production?





Also they sell organic meats at my local health food store. The owner thier said the meat hasent been injected with any growth homrones ...etc. Hasent been totured or killed they let thier animals die naturally and then do what they do to it. So if your vegetarion for ethical reasons whats wrong with organic meats





I understand the process by which fake leather and fake fur are manufactured. Fakes are far more toxic and kill far more animals in the long term than real leather, silk or wool. Indeed, wool is completely dependant of a very alive healthy and happy sheep. Sick sheep don't produce good wool, and dead sheep produce no wool.



The ironic thing is that I belong to several groups opposed to animal cruelty such as WISPA and many environmental groups. I see nothing wrong with wool, leather, . I do oppose anything that destroys animal's habitat, the oceans, rain forests or jungles. That's a far more serious problem than eating meat or wearing leather; in my opinion. However i dont belive in global warming i think its a politcal scam to make money and nothing more.





The global warming argument is based on the assertion that the earth's temperature has risen 0.6 degrees in 100 years.



2. 6/10ths of a degree is well below the difference in measurement accuracy from the instruments we had 100 years ago to the ones we have today. Not a valid scientific measurement. The inaccuracy of instruments exceeds the amount of the "observed" difference. Do you really think that in the 1860's they could measure temperatures to the tenth of a degree? or that they cared enough to take and record enough measurements, all over the world, that would statistically be accurate enough to determine the true "average" temperature ?)



3. Even "IF" the 6/10 of a degree in 100 years IS accurate, the earth is generally accepted to be about 4.5 Billion years old (that's 4,500,000,000 years) anything that happens in 100 years is WAY less than the blink of an eye, in the scope of the planet.



100 years is too short of a period to measure. The earth goes through heating and cooling cycles that last thousands, even millions, of years. 100 years is too short of a time to observe a viable "trend".



4. Even "IF" the measurement inaccuracies were not a factor, and even "IF" 100 years were enough time to observe a trend, NO ONE CAN PROVE that the 6/10 of a degree increase would NOT HAVE HAPPENED ANYWAY, regardless of the activities of humans.



The logic is like saying that the sun comes up every morning because I make Coffee. Because every time I turn on my coffeemaker, the sun comes up within an hour or so.



There are volcanic eruptions (that happen naturally) which in a day or two emit more pollutants into the atmosphere than 1000 years of all the cars in the world. This has been happening for billions of years.



The estimate mass of the earth is 5.9 X 10 to the 24th Kilograms. That means 5,900,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 Kg.



Now write that number down next to the estimated amount of carbon dioxide supposedly emitted by humans and automobiles etc. (the EPA estimate for all of North America is 1488 million metric tonnes in 2005 - see link below). 1488 million metric t.. 1,488,000,000 metric tonnes, or 1,488,000,000,000 Kg.



1.488,000,000,000 Kg of CO2, compared to the 5,900,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 kg of Earth's mass equals:



1 KG of CO2 per 3,965,000,000,000 kg of the earth. It's such a small proportion, it can't be expressed very well as a percentage.



It can be expressed as parts per million, it is less than one one-millionth OF a part per million.



Totally insignificant. Don't think about it in human terms (1.4 trillion Kg is a lot, 100 years is a long time).



Think in terms of the earth. 100 years is a miniscule amount of time. The amount of CO2 produced is utterly and totally insignificant.



I would write more i have the energy to write more however if i do people arent going to read.
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#2 Old 08-12-2008, 11:14 PM
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Hey, Malik. You have many views that have been shared before.



I just wanted to tell you that this post is OK for the "Compost Heap" or the "Vegan" forum, but *not* the vegetarian one. You risk getting an "infraction" for doing this.

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#3 Old 08-12-2008, 11:19 PM
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I thought i could post it here since it said vegetarion disscussion forum .
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#4 Old 08-12-2008, 11:35 PM
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This subforum is a support forum for vegetarians. Your thread is saying that the vegetarian diet doesn't make sense... that's not supportive.



I'm assuming that this thread will be moved to the heap so I'll post now and let my post be moved along with this thread. And I won't post anything that is not supportive of a vegetarian diet until this thread gets moved.



Quote:
An Ethical pure vegetarian does not eat meat because it involves killing an animal. They do not drink milk because it comes from an animal and that is explotation. They do not eat honey because that comes from bees and it is exploiting the bees.



Blueberries and most other fruits come from bees that Pollinate them. Is it ethical to explot bees to produce blueberries? This is not a natural process, the bees are imported to an area and moved around by industrial apiaries. Thousands of bees will die in the process and the honey they produce is taken away.



Are blueberries therefore an unethical food product because animals are exploited and harmed in their production?



You bring up a good point and the same point could be made about small aimals that are killed in the tilling process on farms. But we have to eat something. Vegans eliminate the obvious sources of suffering and seek to eliminate more and more. So you have to ask a vegan this: would you be in favor of setting up proper habitats for pollinating insects next to the farms? I think all would answer "yes". Those who don't care about animals would say "I don't care one way or the other". See the difference. Same with tilled farms. More and more farms are switching to no-till anyway because of the issue of erosion on farmland. It's a serious issue.



Quote:
I understand the process by which fake leather and fake fur are manufactured. Fakes are far more toxic and kill far more animals in the long term than real leather, silk or wool. Indeed, wool is completely dependant of a very alive healthy and happy sheep. Sick sheep don't produce good wool, and dead sheep produce no wool.



Over one million lambs die in the wool industry each year in Australia alone. And I think you need to learn about more about the chemicals that are used in the leather industry. It's very, very toxic. I'm not sure how it compares to the synthetic leathers so if you could post some info to back your statement that the synthetic leather industry produces more toxins than the real leather industry that would be good.



Quote:
Also they sell organic meats at my local health food store. The owner thier said the meat hasent been injected with any growth homrones ...etc. Hasent been totured or killed they let thier animals die naturally and then do what they do to it. So if your vegetarion for ethical reasons whats wrong with organic meats



It's not "natural" to have a knife run through your throat. That's what happens to the animals. I would like to see a link to ANY animal meat farm anywhere that allows the animals to die naturally. It just doesn't happen.



Quote:
The ironic thing is that I belong to several groups opposed to animal cruelty such as WISPA and many environmental groups. I see nothing wrong with wool, leather, . I do oppose anything that destroys animal's habitat, the oceans, rain forests or jungles. That's a far more serious problem than eating meat or wearing leather; in my opinion.



If you are opposed to ANYTHING that destroys an animal's habitat then you'd be opposed to the meat industry. The average American omnivore needs 3 acres of land to support his diet. The average vegan needs just 1/2 an acre. To keep up with the meat demand a lot of land is cleared destroying animal habitat. The ocean habitat is also being severely affected by the fishing industry.
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#5 Old 08-12-2008, 11:40 PM
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www.dictionary.com



Edit: Oh yes, and we all do behave like PeTA and other "crazy" groups. In my spare time I like to parade around in the CBD naked with an anti-fur sign, and throw blood on people. It's how I get my kicks. Not. You seem to have made up your mind about 'us' so I don't think there's much point trying to get a message across. However, I do not eat dairy or eggs unless it is an absolute last resort, and nothing 'better' is available. But I'm still proballly a hippocrit whose going to hell four it.
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#6 Old 08-13-2008, 02:53 AM
 
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Originally Posted by *AHIMSA* View Post

Hey, Malik. You have many views that have been shared before.



I just wanted to tell you that this post is OK for the "Compost Heap" or the "Vegan" forum, but *not* the vegetarian one. You risk getting an "infraction" for doing this.



Well, it would be okay to post it here, if only vegetarians commented. However, it seems that pro-vegan arguments are pretty relevant to this discussion too...moved it to the Compost Heap.

The ones I pity are the ones who never stick out their neck for something they believe, never know the taste of moral struggle, and never have the thrill of victory. - Jonathan Kozol
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#7 Old 08-13-2008, 03:09 AM
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Holy ****.

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#8 Old 08-13-2008, 03:50 AM
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Holy ****.





heh thats what I thought also.
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#9 Old 08-13-2008, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by IamJen View Post

Well, it would be okay to post it here, if only vegetarians commented.



Really?



So vegetarians can post in a manner that disparages vegetarian way of life and eating in the vegetarian support areas, but only if an "outed" vegan doesn't respond?



(*Ponders eating the bread at a restaurant without asking to change status*)



Really though, I can't imagine it being okay to say things like this below in that area:



Quote:
Originally Posted by Malik Allah View Post

Ethical" vegetarians who consume ANY dairy/eggs are hypocrites



First if you are vegan/vegetarion for health reason im all for you but i think being vegetarion for ethical reasons are crazy and fanatic


"Yes! Live! Life's a banquet and most poor suckers are starving to death!" Auntie Mame
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#10 Old 08-13-2008, 08:23 AM
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Oy!
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#11 Old 08-13-2008, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Malik Allah View Post


i think being vegetarion for ethical reasons are crazy and fanatic



i honestly think these people think of animals as thier lord they pratically worship animals.



crazy and fanatic?? its called compassion for sentient creatures, and please explain to me what would be so bad about worshiping animals anyway, do you see them as worthless or below you by any chance.
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#12 Old 08-13-2008, 08:55 AM
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I have never a vegetarion, but I've been a vegetarian, and I'm a vegan not a vegon
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#13 Old 08-13-2008, 08:56 AM
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I have never a vegetarion, but I've been a vegetarian, and I'm a vegan not a vegon



Yes Firefox offers a great spell check plug in.
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#14 Old 08-13-2008, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by HummusKelpilot View Post

I have never a vegetarion, but I've been a vegetarian, and I'm a vegan not a vegon





now your just splitting hares(hairs) lol
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#15 Old 08-13-2008, 09:01 AM
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I'm one of them Vogons


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#16 Old 08-13-2008, 09:05 AM
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I drive a volksvegan (for environmental reasons).
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#17 Old 08-13-2008, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
First if you are vegan/vegetarion for health reason im all for you but i think being vegetarion for ethical reasons are crazy and fanatic



I'm so glad that you've approved of health related diets. I was waiting with bated breath for your announcement.



When you want to do some actual research, buy a dictionary and take a class in logic. You are sorely in need of both of those.
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#18 Old 08-13-2008, 09:39 AM
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I'm one of them Vogons








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#19 Old 08-13-2008, 09:45 AM
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I'm one of them Vogons




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Oh freddled gruntbuggley, thy micturations are to me

As plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee

Groop I implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes

And hooptiously drangle me with crinkly bindlewurdles, or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't!



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#20 Old 08-13-2008, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Why are people vegetarions for ethical reasons



because it's one of many great reasons to be vegetarian/vegan.
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#21 Old 08-13-2008, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Malik Allah View Post

I would write more i have the energy to write more however if i do people arent going to read.



I would write more i have the energy to write more however if i do people won't care what I write.



There, I fixed it for you.
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#22 Old 08-13-2008, 10:33 AM
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I have my doubts about global warming too, but that's the only point I can really agree with. As far as blueberries go, my family produces our own organically and we don't do anything to bees or other insects.
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#23 Old 08-13-2008, 11:18 AM
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I drive a volksvegan (for environmental reasons).




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#24 Old 08-13-2008, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malik Allah View Post

ive been reasearching vegetarianism ive been seeing videos from peta and i honestly think these people think of animals as thier lord they pratically worship animals .



its better to worship animals than a god of some kind in my opinion. at least animals are tangible.
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#25 Old 08-13-2008, 12:26 PM
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Wow...you really like to stir the pot, don't ya??
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#26 Old 08-13-2008, 01:09 PM
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*yawn*





Parents really need to monitor their children's computer usage better. Maybe summer school would help with that ... and the obvious illiteracy problem.
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#27 Old 08-13-2008, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malik Allah View Post

First if you are vegan/vegetarion for health reason im all for you but i think being vegetarion for ethical reasons are crazy and fanatic since ive been reasearching vegetarianism ive been seeing videos from peta and i honestly think these people think of animals as thier lord they pratically worship animals .



And from another thread:



Quote:
Originally Posted by Malik Allah View Post

Im 14 years old and to be honest i dont give a damn about animals



Really? Most people care for animals at least at some basic level.



Are you saying you wouldn't care if someone:



1. Beat a dog with a baseball bat. Even if you were there and heard the dog yelping you still wouldn't give a damn?

2. Pours gasoline on a cat and lights the match to burn the cat alive.

3. Throws a rabbit against a wall and then lets the injured rabbit die a slow death.





Like I say, most people do give a damn about animals to some degree.



Quote:
In Spain, at the end of hunting season, when the dogs are of no further "use" to the hunters, they are hanged to death and left to rot.



http://www.all-creatures.org/anex/dog-cruelty-13.html



You can see a picture of the dog that was hung and is now rotting on that link. I won't post the picture in this thread because some may not want to see it.
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#28 Old 08-13-2008, 01:26 PM
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This guy also says he has anger problems.
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#29 Old 08-13-2008, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Hang~Ten~Honey View Post

*yawn*





Parents really need to monitor their children's computer usage better. Maybe summer school would help with that ... and the obvious illiteracy problem.



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#30 Old 08-13-2008, 02:51 PM
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Anyone else think that someone's summer vacation got too boring and they're looking for ways to entertain themselves?





ETA:



I posted this before I got to Hang Ten's post. Clearly I'm not the only one. LOL

I am the user formerly known as MrsKey
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