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-   -   Woman Held For Raping Man in Stockholm (https://www.veggieboards.com/forum/17-compost-heap/82402-woman-held-raping-man-stockholm.html)

gillibean 05-30-2008 03:50 PM

Quote:
A 41-year-old woman in being held by police in Stockholm on suspicions of raping a 30-year-old man who went home with her after the two met at an area pub on Monday night.

http://www.thelocal.se/12046.html

Kiz 05-30-2008 03:52 PM

It's good to see that he reported it. Way too many men who are raped by women are too ashamed to say anything. I'm not sure why this is in the compost heap, though.

gillibean 05-30-2008 03:54 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiz View Post

It's good to see that he reported it. Way too many men who are raped by women are too ashamed to say anything. I'm not sure why this is in the compost heap, though.



Nearly all the comments on the original article are negative so I was concerned about the same thing happening on here.

Kiz 05-30-2008 04:06 PM

Oh, ok. I didn't see any comments, just read the article. The "men can't be raped" attitude makes me sick.

gillibean 05-30-2008 04:14 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiz View Post

Oh, ok. I didn't see any comments, just read the article. The "men can't be raped" attitude makes me sick.



I can't find the comments page now, must have gotten to them accidentally. The forum I found this article on was the same way, all men can't be raped and nothing but mockery. The attitudes towards this person and the subject in general makes me physically ill.

IamJen 05-30-2008 04:29 PM

to him for reporting. As hard as it is for women to report, I think it's even more difficult for guys to come forward.

GhostUser 05-30-2008 04:42 PM

Glad he reported it.

JLRodgers 05-30-2008 05:16 PM

Sad -- but maybe if more cases are reported people will realize it happens. Since in a sense, anything shy of the guy beating up the woman (and who'd be the "problem" then?) and a woman could assault, and get a man... uh... able to have sexual relations without him wanting to.



Of course he'll never live it down sadly -- he'll get crap for it for months/years.





I clicked on a link from that article... and there was another story of a woman arrested for aggravated rape -- of another woman (forced the woman at knifepoint to perform sexual acts on her).

otomik 05-30-2008 10:04 PM

Quote:
“We don’t know if it was a ‘no’ or if it was more than a ‘no’,” said Hägg.





Quote:
Originally Posted by President Clinton View Post

"It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is.

seriously, I blame that guy, who are these ****ers that don't understand the meaning of simple two letter words and think oral sex is just a friendly pat on the back.

GhostUser 06-01-2008 06:57 AM

this is absolutely awful... the poor guy.

rainforests1 06-01-2008 07:28 AM

It's good to see he reported it. My brother has read about many instances where men have reported rape and been laughed at so I hope something like that doesn't happen here. Regardless of who the victim is, rape is a very serious crime, so I hope the proper justice is carried out.

Tablaqueen 06-02-2008 04:44 AM

It's probably only somewhere like Sweden that the guy would actually feel ABLE to report it.

Lentil Burger 06-02-2008 06:48 AM

Am I missing something? Doesn't sound like he was raped... sounds more like he was sexually assaulted?

isowish 06-02-2008 07:13 AM

the comments on that site are awful.

Quote:
Where is the harm done?



Most men would get in line line for this outrage!



oh yeah, he should just "man up" and get over it because real men are meant to want sex with anyone, anytime. :eyeroll:

rainforests1 06-02-2008 08:40 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lentil Burger View Post

Am I missing something? Doesn't sound like he was raped... sounds more like he was sexually assaulted?

The man did file rape charges, so that's what I'm going by.

Lentil Burger 06-02-2008 08:48 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by rainforests1 View Post

The man did file rape charges, so that's what I'm going by.

All you're going on is a newspaper report. They might be in error, or there might be some confusion in translation.

gillibean 06-02-2008 08:50 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lentil Burger View Post

All you're going on is a newspaper report. They might be in error, or there might be some confusion in translation.



I think a swedish newspaper would be pretty careful in how they translate. The definition of rape may differ in sweden or there's more to the story than was reported.



ETA According to a law passed in 1999, oral sex is considered rape in Sweden. I wish the US would pass a law like this! http://www.prostitutionresearch.com/swedish.html



Quote:
Definition of rape to be widened

The provision of rape is widened so that sexual intercourse is to include other sexual acts, if having regard to the nature of the violation and other circumstances, the act in question is comparable to forced sexual intercourse. This means that certain acts which under present legislation are defined as sexual coercion, for example so-called fist-****ing, will therewith be considered as rape.


Lentil Burger 06-02-2008 09:03 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by gillibean View Post

I think a swedish newspaper would be pretty careful in how they translate. The definition of rape may differ in sweden or there's more to the story than was reported.

Quite possibly. So we're agreed that we're not necessarily in possession of all the facts then?



Quote:
ETA According to a law passed in 1999, oral sex is considered rape in Sweden. I wish the US would pass a law like this! http://www.prostitutionresearch.com/swedish.html

Rape is generally understood to refer to forced penetration. Legally, there's a good case for all serious sexual assault to be treated with the same severity, but I think applying the word "rape" to a wider variety of offences isn't particularly helpful. Bit like calling pescatarians vegetarians.

gillibean 06-02-2008 09:07 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lentil Burger View Post

Quite possibly. So we're agreed that we're not necessarily in possession of all the facts then?



Rape is generally understood in the us/uk to refer to forced penetration. Legally, there's a good case for all serious sexual assault to be treated with the same severity, but I think applying the word "rape" to a wider variety of offences isn't particularly helpful. Bit like calling pescatarians vegetarians.



Regardless of personal opinions, this guy was raped and reported as such.

Lentil Burger 06-02-2008 09:13 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by gillibean View Post

Regardless of personal opinions, this guy was raped and reported as such.

I'm not in the US.



*edit* I see you changed that to US/UK.... last minute realisation of cultural assumptions?



Firstly, you don't know that the man was sexually assaulted - let alone raped. An accusation is not proof of fact.



Secondly, in order to agree that a "rape" has taken place, we would have to agree what we meant by the word. Personally, I - along with most of the planet - regard rape to mean forced penetration, or forced intercourse. I would therefore regard the man to have been sexually assaulted if the alleged incident took place. He may have been "raped" according the Swedish legal definition, but that's not the same thing as saying he was "raped" according to how most people would understand the term.



Either way, forced oral sex is a serious sexual assault, whatever label you choose to give it.

rainforests1 06-02-2008 03:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lentil Burger View Post

All you're going on is a newspaper report. They might be in error, or there might be some confusion in translation.

I understand that. You'd have to have been there to have a say, and I don't think that applies to any of us. I'm just saying that rape is one of the worst crimes a person can commit and more should be done to stop it.

otomik 06-03-2008 02:16 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lentil Burger View Post

Rape is generally understood to refer to forced penetration.

and I'm not sure why that would be except for pure patriarchy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lentil Burger View Post

Legally, there's a good case for all serious sexual assault to be treated with the same severity, but I think applying the word "rape" to a wider variety of offences isn't particularly helpful.

if it quacks like a duck. someone sticks a gun to his head and or threatened to bite down HARD if he resists. sounds like rape to me.

Lentil Burger 06-03-2008 04:04 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by otomik View Post

and I'm not sure why that would be except for pure patriarchy.

What's patriarchy got to do with it? A man forcing oral sex upon a woman isn't considered rape. A woman forcing oral sex upon a man isn't considered rape. A man forcing a woman into penetrative sex is considered rape. A woman forcing a man into penetrative sex is considered rape. There's no gender distinction.



Quote:
if it quacks like a duck. someone sticks a gun to his head and or threatened to bite down HARD if he resists. sounds like rape to me.

Yeah, and someone who doesn't eat dairy sounds like a vegan. Doesn't make 'em a vegan. What you're describing is not rape - it's serious sexual assault.

Kiz 06-03-2008 06:51 AM

Forced oral sex is rape, whichever way you want to cut it. Sorry babe, rape is rape.

gillibean 06-03-2008 07:18 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lentil Burger View Post

What's patriarchy got to do with it? A man forcing oral sex upon a woman isn't considered rape. A woman forcing oral sex upon a man isn't considered rape. A man forcing a woman into penetrative sex is considered rape. A woman forcing a man into penetrative sex is considered rape. There's no gender distinction.



Yeah, and someone who doesn't eat dairy sounds like a vegan. Doesn't make 'em a vegan. What you're describing is not rape - it's serious sexual assault.



I thought we already clarified that it is in fact rape. This isn't an issue of opinion. You can say it's not rape till the cows come home take over the world and teach the pigs to cook but you will still be wrong. Rape, in sweden, which in the only definition relevant here is any kind of forced sex act.

Lentil Burger 06-03-2008 07:19 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiz View Post

Forced oral sex is rape, whichever way you want to cut it. Sorry babe, rape is rape.

According to whom?

Lentil Burger 06-03-2008 07:21 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by gillibean View Post

I thought we already clarified that it is in fact rape.

Not that I'm aware of.



Quote:
You can say it's not rape till the cows come home take over the world and teach the pigs to cook but you will still be wrong.

And you can argue a point of pedantry until you're blue in the face, but it's still at odds with how the vast majority understand the term.



Quote:
Rape, in sweden, which in the only definition relevant here is any kind of forced sex act.

Why is it the only definition of relevance? Because you say it is? If Sweden defined vegans as people who simply didn't eat eggs, would you agree that a cheese-eating person was therefore a vegan?



I'm really puzzled why you feel the need to insist that this was rape - it was certainly serious sexual assault, so why do you feel the need to attach a further label to the incident?

otomik 06-03-2008 07:22 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lentil Burger View Post

According to whom?

swedish law



Quote:
Originally Posted by president lentil burger View Post

"It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is.


gillibean 06-03-2008 07:27 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lentil Burger View Post

Not that I'm aware of.



And you can argue a point of pedantry until you're blue in the face, but it's still at odds with how the vast majority understand the term.



Why is it the only definition of relevance? Because you say it is? If Sweden defined vegans as people who simply didn't eat eggs, would you agree that a cheese-eating person was therefore a vegan?



I'm really puzzled why you feel the need to insist that this was rape - it was certainly serious sexual assault, so why do you feel the need to attach a further label to the incident?



I already posted the swedish definition of rape, you saw it and commented on it so you are aware of the clarification. Many countries don't define rape as sweden does but this didn't occur in those countries. Rape is not a further label, it is the only label.

Lentil Burger 06-03-2008 07:28 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by otomik View Post

swedish law

As I said... if Swedish law defined a vegan as a vegetarian who didn't eat eggs, would you agree that egg-avoiding vegetarians were therefore vegans?



And how about avoiding smart-ass comments ("president atomik") and keeping the discussion civilised? I appreciate that your argument is flimsy, but resorting to childish behaviour really does little to strengthen your case.


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