Woman Held For Raping Man in Stockholm - Page 4 - VeggieBoards
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#91 Old 06-09-2008, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Kiz View Post

I understand now. We have been misinterpreting Lentil Burger when we hear the word "majority of people" and "how the majority think". We have been assuming Lentil Burger means "the larger number of human beings" when they actually mean this...

Oh, grow up. If you can't form a reasonable, coherent, intelligent argument, without resorting to childish insults, then you're pretty much demonstrated the idiocy of your position. Clearly you find the definitive dictionary definition of rape pretty hard to argue with, so I suppose I should sympathise with your need to descend into petty insults.



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Lentil Burger knows full well that both Swedish law and the majority (greater number of people) agree forced sex is rape.

Indeed. And I don't recall disagreeing with that at any point.



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Obviously they are insisting that it's only the majority (greater in terms of status or intellect, superior) person that disbelieves that forces, non-penile sex, is rape.

Is the dictionary definition too complex for you to understand? Given that you're the one resorting to personal insults, it's a little rich of you to accuse me of holding a superior attitude.



It never ceases to amaze me that people are incapable of disagreeing with one another on internet forums without discussions becoming personal and nasty as soon as one person proves incapable of backing up their position with logic and reason. You disagree with me... that's fine. Why the insults? We both agree that all forms of sexual assault are extremely serious and traumatic, so why do you feel the need to drag the discussion into the gutter?
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#92 Old 06-09-2008, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Lentil Burger View Post

Why the insults?

Maybe because your manner of disagreeing with people is extremely condescending and passive-aggressive?



Don't start crying if people give you what you ask.

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#93 Old 06-09-2008, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Sevenseas View Post

Maybe because your manner of disagreeing with people is extremely condescending and passive-aggressive?

Ah, psycho-babble to justify you rude attitude. Priceless.



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Don't start crying if people give you what you ask.

Do you come here just to find new people to fall out with? I suppose it must be a little easier that real-life rejection.



I understand that you have difficulty defending your point of view rationally, but as I've said before, childish name-calling simply undermines your argument. I know it's a stretch, but do you fancy debating this point politely and respectfully, or is such reasonable behaviour entirely beyond you?
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#94 Old 06-09-2008, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Lentil Burger View Post

Ah, psycho-babble to justify you rude attitude. Priceless.



Do you come here just to find new people to fall out with? I suppose it must be a little easier that real-life rejection.



I understand that you have difficulty defending your point of view rationally, but as I've said before, childish name-calling simply undermines your argument. I know it's a stretch, but do you fancy debating this point politely and respectfully, or is such reasonable behaviour entirely beyond you?



What exactly about your posts (especially the most recent ones) is respectful and polite? You have been insulting people left and right!
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#95 Old 06-09-2008, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by gillibean View Post

What exactly about your posts (especially the most recent ones) is respectful and polite? You have been insulting people left and right!

That's what they call responding in kind. As soon as anyone wants to resume a polite and friendly discussion, I'll be happy to oblige. There's no reason to insult people simply because you disagree with them - especially when you agree on the most important principles, that all forms of rape and sexual abuse/assault are profoundly wrong and should be treated with the utmost seriousness.
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#96 Old 06-09-2008, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by me View Post

Maybe because your manner of disagreeing with people is extremely condescending and passive-aggressive?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Lentil Burger View Post

Ah, psycho-babble to justify you rude attitude. Priceless.



Do you come here just to find new people to fall out with? I suppose it must be a little easier that real-life rejection.



I understand that you have difficulty defending your point of view rationally, but as I've said before, childish name-calling simply undermines your argument. I know it's a stretch, but do you fancy debating this point politely and respectfully, or is such reasonable behaviour entirely beyond you?





q.e.d.

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#97 Old 06-09-2008, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Sevenseas View Post

q.e.d.

I've repeatedly offered to discuss the issue politely and reasonably. You're not interested in doing so. Go figure.
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#98 Old 06-09-2008, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Lentil Burger View Post

Oh, grow up. If you can't form a reasonable, coherent, intelligent argument, without resorting to childish insults, then you're pretty much demonstrated the idiocy of your position. Clearly you find the definitive dictionary definition of rape pretty hard to argue with, so I suppose I should sympathise with your need to descend into petty insults.



Indeed. And I don't recall disagreeing with that at any point.



Is the dictionary definition too complex for you to understand? Given that you're the one resorting to personal insults, it's a little rich of you to accuse me of holding a superior attitude.



It never ceases to amaze me that people are incapable of disagreeing with one another on internet forums without discussions becoming personal and nasty as soon as one person proves incapable of backing up their position with logic and reason. You disagree with me... that's fine. Why the insults? We both agree that all forms of sexual assault are extremely serious and traumatic, so why do you feel the need to drag the discussion into the gutter?



Pot meet kettle. Kettle, this is the pot, how do you do?



You've met with rudeness, yes, but that's what you put out there first, so don't be surprised when you get it back. These things go both way, hon, you can't start by being dismissive and condescending and then go all wide-eyed innocent when you get it back.

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#99 Old 06-10-2008, 02:03 AM
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Pot meet kettle. Kettle, this is the pot, how do you do?

I see the level of maturity and civility has little chance of increasing then. I've repeatedly suggested polite and friendly discussion, but name-calling appears to be preferable to raising the tone of debate. Sad, but unsurprising.



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You've met with rudeness, yes, but that's what you put out there first

Where? Can you point me towards a post where I was rude without provocation please?



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These things go both way, hon, you can't start by being dismissive and condescending and then go all wide-eyed innocent when you get it back

How is it dismissive and condescending to disagree with someone's point of view? I don't recall insulting anyone, calling anyone names, or sneering at anyone. What I did do was argue a point of view strongly. Are you suggesting that people shouldn't post points of view that you disagree with?
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#100 Old 06-10-2008, 05:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Lentil Burger View Post

calling anyone names,

No one has called you names, either. Or if you think someone has, please provide a quote.

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#101 Old 06-10-2008, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Sevenseas View Post

No one has called you names, either. Or if you think someone has, please provide a quote.

"Condescending" and "passive-aggressive" spring to mind.



Third time of asking... would you like to continue this debate in a civil and constructive fashion, with everyone respecting each other's opinions, regardless of whether they disagree with them or not? If you're happy to have a pleasant discussion, then how about demonstrating it rather than continuing with the bickering? Just a thought.
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#102 Old 06-10-2008, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Lentil Burger View Post

"Condescending" and "passive-aggressive" spring to mind.

Uh, you think those are "names"?



Umm..

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#103 Old 06-10-2008, 06:51 AM
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Uh, you think those are "names"?



Umm..

Well three times I've suggested returning to a polite and friendly discussion, and three times you've ignored the request. I'm offering to try and hold a civilised dialogue, but you don't seem interested. Not sure what else I can realistically do.
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#104 Old 06-10-2008, 06:57 AM
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Stop trying to pretend you were all nice and polite through this whole thread?
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#105 Old 06-10-2008, 07:10 AM
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Stop trying to pretend you were all nice and polite through this whole thread?

Or you could do the same? Here's a radical suggestion.... stop bickering and point-scoring, and just discuss the topic politely, appreciating that it's possible to respectfully disagree? We can either move on and act like adults, or continue this pointless and unproductive argument until the end of time. Your call.
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#106 Old 06-10-2008, 12:33 PM
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In the US, I think that forced oral and anal penetration is not classified legally as "rape" but "sodomy."

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#107 Old 06-10-2008, 12:35 PM
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In the US, I think that forced oral and anal penetration is not classified legally as "rape" but "sodomy."



It depends on the state. Some states classify rape as any kind of forced sex (including oral).
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#108 Old 06-10-2008, 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Lentil Burger View Post

Look, let's try and clarify this with a little objectivity, courtesy of the Oxford English Dictionary.....



rape



verb 1 (of a man) force (another person) to have sexual intercourse with him against their will. 2 spoil or destroy (a place).



sexual intercourse



noun sexual contact between individuals involving penetration, especially the insertion of a mans erect penis into a womans vagina culminating in orgasm and the ejaculation of semen.



I'm not sure how much clearer that can be!





since your dictonary definition is the be all end all how agout this. If a woman performs oral sex on a man that is penatration is it not? the penis pentrates the mouth.hmm but then i guess he raped her damn. Not mention by your definition it impossible for a woman to rape a man since the only way for it to be done is by penile penetration.
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#109 Old 06-11-2008, 02:44 AM
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since your dictonary definition is the be all end all how agout this. If a woman performs oral sex on a man that is penatration is it not? the penis pentrates the mouth.hmm but then i guess he raped her damn. Not mention by your definition it impossible for a woman to rape a man since the only way for it to be done is by penile penetration.

Is it really to much to ask that people debate this without making it personal? It's not "my" definition. It's the definition of the word according to the world's primary reference dictionary. It's the definition most commonly understood by the vast majority of people. And the word "penetration" in this context is understood to refer to the penis. Nobody would (hopefully!) suggest that poking your finger up someone's nose is raping them.



Now you can argue that the word "rape" should be extended to include all kinds of diverse acts of sexual aggression, and there'd be a strong case for that. But currently, the commonly understood definition of rape doesn't stretch to that. Legal definitions may vary from country to country, but definitions of rape that extend the word's meaning beyond forced sexual intercourse are still in the minority.



What continues to puzzle me is why people seem to be taking this so personally and getting so worked up over it. Just to reiterate... all acts of sexual assault should be treated with the utmost seriousness, regardless of what we choose to call them.
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#110 Old 06-11-2008, 03:16 AM
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It's odd to me that this thread seems to be so rancorous due to a disagreement about terms. Is someone suggesting that the crime should be treated less seriously depending on what it is called? Is that the problem? Or is there something else going on?

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#111 Old 06-11-2008, 03:22 AM
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It's odd to me that this thread seems to be so rancorous due to a disagreement about terms.

Likewise.



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Is someone suggesting that the crime should be treated less seriously depending on what it is called?

Not me.



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Is that the problem? Or is there something else going on?

Internet forum syndrome. Arguments become polarised, with people seeing things in very black and white terms.
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#112 Old 06-11-2008, 03:48 AM
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It's the definition most commonly understood by the vast majority of people.

If by "vast majority of people" we mean OSRVMJ, the Official Self-appointed Representative of the Vast Majority of People, Lentil Burger

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#113 Old 06-11-2008, 04:26 AM
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If by "vast majority of people" we mean OSRVMJ, the Official Self-appointed Representative of the Vast Majority of People, Lentil Burger

You just can't manage to discuss topics politely, can you? And you call me passive-aggressive?



All you're doing now is trolling.
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#114 Old 06-11-2008, 04:58 AM
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No, I'm just saying maybe you should be a little more modest in your certainty about how well you represent most people. You know, your reaction to the amount of semantical disagreement you've received in this thread could be "well, gee, maybe this means something" and not "this is just some random message board, it doesn't mean anything, I'm right yeah".

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#115 Old 06-11-2008, 05:30 AM
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No, I'm just saying maybe you should be a little more modest in your certainty about how well you represent most people.

Ah, now that's almost reasonable! Why couldn't you just say it like that in the first place?



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You know, your reaction to the amount of semantical disagreement you've received in this thread could be "well, gee, maybe this means something" and not "this is just some random message board, it doesn't mean anything, I'm right yeah"

But my honest opinion is that this isn't a representative sample of society. Just get out there and talk to some people. That's what I've been doing. They're pretty clear on what they believe "rape" means.



To satisfy your desire for modesty, I can't say that that proves my case 100%, because it's simply a straw poll. But combined with the Oxford English Dictionary and the predominant legal definition, it does seem to point towards a commonly accepted meaning. So maybe.... just maybe.... you should look at the evidence beyond one thread on an internet forum, and think "well, gee, maybe this means something".
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#116 Old 06-11-2008, 11:53 AM
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You just can't manage to discuss topics politely, can you? And you call me passive-aggressive?



All you're doing now is trolling.



Isn't name-calling against the rules?
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#117 Old 06-11-2008, 12:47 PM
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The "common legal definition" varies from state to state, country to country. As has been said before, some countries define this as rape. Some countries do not have rape at all, it's all sexual assault, some countries think that wives can't be raped, some countries think only females can be raped, some countries think that if the woman was alone with an unrelated man it can't be rape because she asked for it. What "predominant legal code" do you speak of?



What I find so utterly and inherently frustrating is your repeated insistence that you view is the "majority" one simply and only because you hold it. Look at the people who have posted in this thread. Look at them. Look at how many people agree with you to disagree with you. You are just not in the majority. And yes honey baby, the percentages amongst people in the outside world are pretty much the same. Simply because you believe one thing does not make it the majority. Life just doesn't work like that.



As you said "look outside one internet forum". I do. My legal code states quite clearly that what happened here was rape. It states very, very clearly that forced fellatio or cunnilingus, whether the person is being forced to do it or forced to submit, is rape. It even uses those words. Swedish law is evidently the same. The general consensus where I live is that forced sex (and yes, oral sex is included in that) is rape.



I agree that where you live the law and the general consensus may differ. Because I know for sure you don't speak for the "majority" amongst the sort of people I move in. You might speak for the majority where you live but certainly not everywhere, that's for sure.

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#118 Old 06-11-2008, 02:48 PM
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Isn't name-calling against the rules?

FWIW, this seems to have already been handled between Lentil Burger and Seven Seas.

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#119 Old 06-11-2008, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Kiz View Post

The "common legal definition" varies from state to state, country to country. As has been said before, some countries define this as rape. Some countries do not have rape at all, it's all sexual assault, some countries think that wives can't be raped, some countries think only females can be raped, some countries think that if the woman was alone with an unrelated man it can't be rape because she asked for it. What "predominant legal code" do you speak of?



What I find so utterly and inherently frustrating is your repeated insistence that you view is the "majority" one simply and only because you hold it. Look at the people who have posted in this thread. Look at them. Look at how many people agree with you to disagree with you. You are just not in the majority. And yes honey baby, the percentages amongst people in the outside world are pretty much the same. Simply because you believe one thing does not make it the majority. Life just doesn't work like that.



As you said "look outside one internet forum". I do. My legal code states quite clearly that what happened here was rape. It states very, very clearly that forced fellatio or cunnilingus, whether the person is being forced to do it or forced to submit, is rape. It even uses those words. Swedish law is evidently the same. The general consensus where I live is that forced sex (and yes, oral sex is included in that) is rape.



I agree that where you live the law and the general consensus may differ. Because I know for sure you don't speak for the "majority" amongst the sort of people I move in. You might speak for the majority where you live but certainly not everywhere, that's for sure.



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#120 Old 06-11-2008, 05:57 PM
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oh boy, what other definitions can we argue about??? we could have a websters thread!
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