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gillibean 04-18-2008 01:19 PM

I'm curious about how others feel on this issue. I recently got evil eye from my fiance for saying I want marriage to simply be defined as a civil union of 2 or more people.



ETA I should add that I'm curious because I've never been around people who are open minded enough to give it some honest thought. Baptists made of the vast majority of my friends and family for most of my life.

IamJen 04-18-2008 01:28 PM

<<gets some popcorn and finds the comfy chair.......




lefty2026 04-18-2008 01:49 PM

I think that is a perfectly good definition.



I never understand why people care what consenting adults do.



If I could have a husband and a wife - that would be awesome.

halo_zero 04-18-2008 01:50 PM

Depends. Are the women allowed to grow up in a stable environment, free to make their own choices? Are they not indoctrinated and brainwashed from birth with disgusting pseudo-religious ideals that basically amount to giving men a "god given right" to being pedophiles?



If it's multiple men married to a woman . . . well . . . I think that woman is probably pretty unlucky fending off cheesey advances left and right all day long. That would have to get extremely tiring.

Sevenseas 04-18-2008 02:14 PM

People can live in a network of five thousand people, sticking pineapples in each other's orifices, for all I care. It's just not for me.

GhostUser 04-18-2008 02:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by halo_zero View Post

Depends. Are the women allowed to grow up in a stable environment, free to make their own choices? Are they not indoctrinated and brainwashed from birth with disgusting pseudo-religious ideals that basically amount to giving men a "god given right" to being pedophiles?



If it's multiple men married to a woman . . . well . . . I think that woman is probably pretty unlucky fending off cheesey advances left and right all day long. That would have to get extremely tiring.



What about men who are indoctrinated and brain-washed from birth to believe that they are put on the earth only to provide money and and make 'cheesy advances' towards women for the purpose of breeding so that the women can emotionally abuse and financially ruin men using their children as bargaining chips?



If it is multiple women married to a man...well...I think that man is pretty unlucky to have to tolerate incessant nagging and crying. That would have to get extremely tiring.

kazyeeqen 04-18-2008 02:33 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by halo_zero View Post

Depends. Are the women allowed to grow up in a stable environment, free to make their own choices? Are they not indoctrinated and brainwashed from birth with disgusting pseudo-religious ideals that basically amount to giving men a "god given right" to being pedophiles?



If it's multiple men married to a woman . . . well . . . I think that woman is probably pretty unlucky fending off cheesey advances left and right all day long. That would have to get extremely tiring.



I would assume it wouldn't be that one person is the focus of all the attention in the relationship, that would be unhealthy for everyone.

gillibean 04-18-2008 02:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by kazyeeqen View Post

I would assume it wouldn't be that one person is the focus of all the attention in the relationship, that would be unhealthy for everyone.



I'm sure there would be some like that but as long as it doesn't escalate into abuse, that's their problem.

kazyeeqen 04-18-2008 02:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by gillibean View Post

I'm sure there would be some like that but as long as it doesn't escalate into abuse, that's their problem.



Yeah, I suppose so.

Savannah 04-18-2008 02:39 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevenseas View Post

People can live in a network of five thousand people, sticking pineapples in each other's orifices, for all I care. It's just not for me.



is this some strange practice on the part of radical fruitarians?

halo_zero 04-18-2008 02:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sketchy View Post

What about men who are indoctrinated and brain-washed from birth to believe that they are put on the earth only to provide money and and make 'cheesy advances' towards women for the purpose of breeding so that the women can emotionally abuse and financially ruin men using their children as bargaining chips?



If it is multiple women married to a man...well...I think that man is pretty unlucky to have to tolerate incessant nagging and crying. That would have to get extremely tiring.



We men have a choice to decide whether or not we want to put up with that sort of behavior. The girls/women in the polygamist camps do not.



Men that put up with not being respected are not victims. They can be victims of the system in some cases with child support/custody though, agreed. This is an entirely different subject than polygamy. If you want to talk about how the past 40 years have created massive shifts in how masculinity is perceived, and how masculinity is looked down upon in many ways in our society, I'm open to discussing that elsewhere

taryn 04-18-2008 03:45 PM

I think people should do whatever the hell they want as long as they don't hurt themselves or others.



A lot of relationships with one man and one woman are sexist, and I don't think that polygymous relationship would be MORE sexist or oppressive. Actually, in certain societies, women prefer being in a polygynous relationship because they are able to split a lot of their work.



And why do men always think that the women would be only interested in the husband? huh?

codemonkey 04-18-2008 04:04 PM

I think that legally, marriage should be a contract between two or more consenting adults. Sex with a minor should never be legal. Forcing someone into marriage should never be legal. Abuse should never be legal. Because polygamy is illegal, those people are forced to live off-the-grid and it makes law enforcement have a MUCH harder time detecting abuse. If a polygamous man can legally only have one wife, his other "wives" are legally single mothers and are eligible for welfare, no matter how much money their "husband" makes because they're not legally married. If polygamy were legal, it would close that loophole. If people want to have multiple spouses and even raise children in families with multiple mothers (or fathers or both), that doesn't bother me at all as long as everyone involved is okay with it.



I'm a religious person and would never choose to live that lifestyle. But I don't think it should be illegal for someone else to follow their religious (or personal) beliefs just because it doesn't agree with my own religious beliefs, as long as they don't hurt someone else or infringe on another person's rights. Last time I checked, we were supposed to have freedom of religion in America.



I'm a pretty conservative person but it pisses me off when the government tells me which consenting adult I should be able to marry or have sex with (even though I'm in a "normal" heterosexual marriage).

halo_zero 04-18-2008 04:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by codemonkey View Post

I think that legally, marriage should be a contract between two or more consenting adults. Sex with a minor should never be legal. Forcing someone into marriage should never be legal. Abuse should never be legal. Because polygamy is illegal, those people are forced to live off-the-grid and it makes law enforcement have a MUCH harder time detecting abuse. If a polygamous man can legally only have one wife, his other "wives" are legally single mothers and are eligible for welfare, no matter how much money their "husband" makes because they're not legally married. If polygamy were legal, it would close that loophole. If people want to have multiple spouses and even raise children in families with multiple mothers (or fathers or both), that doesn't bother me at all as long as everyone involved is okay with it.



I'm a religious person and would never choose to live that lifestyle. But I don't think it should be illegal for someone else to follow their religious (or personal) beliefs just because it doesn't agree with my own religious beliefs, as long as they don't hurt someone else or infringe on another person's rights. Last time I checked, we were supposed to have freedom of religion in America.



I'm a pretty conservative person but it pisses me off when the government tells me which consenting adult I should be able to marry or have sex with (even though I'm in a "normal" heterosexual marriage).




WonderRandy 04-18-2008 04:35 PM

Are we talking about polygamy, or the recent raids on Jeffers' compound?



They aren't necessarily the same you know...

gillibean 04-18-2008 04:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by WonderRandy View Post

Are we talking about polygamy, or the recent raids on Jeffers' compound?



They aren't necessarily the same you know...



I started this thread solely on polygamy. I'd forgotten all about the raids actually.

codemonkey 04-18-2008 04:40 PM

A lot of people use what happens on those compounds as an arguement against polygamy but I think plural marriage and abuse are totally separate issues. There's plenty of abuse in "traditional" families so I think it's an invalid arguement.

Kiz 04-18-2008 05:42 PM

I have nothing against polygamy/polyandry/polygyny, and think they should both/all be legal. Nothing I'd ever touch myself, I like the one-on-one thing, but if people want to go for it who am I to stop them? Forcing people into any kind of marriage against their will, whether polygamous or not, in an entirely different issue.

Poppy 04-18-2008 05:50 PM

I don't see anything wrong with polygamy in theory.

Irizary 04-18-2008 06:10 PM

I don't see why anyone should even care what adults choose to do with other consenting adults.

gillibean 04-18-2008 06:14 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irizary View Post

I don't see why anyone should even care what adults choose to do with other consenting adults.



Neither do I, but being surrounded by extreme conservatives my whole life was starting to make me wonder if I was the crazy one for liberal views.

Kiz 04-18-2008 06:15 PM

There are legal ramifications and complications that could arise when, say, one member wants a divorce from one person but not the others, from the group, distribution of goods upon a split, how life insurance works, child payments etc etc etc. I can see we do need to look at these sort of legal aspects, just as we need to look at the legal aspects of any such partnership. This is more than just a moral choice after all. It's a practical one.

gillibean 04-18-2008 06:16 PM

The logistical aspects give me a headache so I let other people worry about them.

melancholy024 04-18-2008 06:23 PM

I personally don't understand why anyone would want more than one spouse. Not for any of the legal reasons, but for the psychological ones. I think my drama gland would burst in such a situation. Who's doing what to or with whom and why is that and who did this. I would scream...

Hang~Ten~Honey 04-19-2008 12:41 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by melancholy024 View Post

I personally don't understand why anyone would want more than one spouse.



There are as many reasons as there are people who choose more than one partner. I've been in such a relationship and I'd be in one again if/when I/We find another person to love. Although I do believe it works better when all parties are fully engaged in a loving, intimate relationship with one another... meaning that all men and women within the relationship are in love, sexually attracted to each other, are there by choice and the relationship is one of equal partnership and commitment (i.e. NO children allowed).





The FDLS is just an excuse to rape children and commit incest.









Kiz, those problems exist now with domestic partnerships because there are so few laws regarding non-married couples. I think this is where legal written contracts and documents come into play (i.e Wills, Advanced Directives, other estate planning, child custody docs, etc). It does seem confusing but look at the mess hetero married couples often get themselves into when divorcing, etc. The process of love is just messy and complicated.

Kiz 04-19-2008 12:58 AM

Love and marriage are not necessarily always related.

Bof 04-19-2008 04:44 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiz View Post

Love and marriage are not necessarily always related.



I thought they went together like a horse and carriage.

(Not that I approve of equine enslavement. )

Jennifer N 04-19-2008 04:25 PM

Are we talking about people having multiple marriages, or a marriage having more than two people at the same time, or both?



While I am poly, I'm legally bound to my partner, for financial and legal security. I don't think I'd want him or me to be in a legally binding situation with another person as well (i.e. he has me, and also has a separate marriage-thingy with another person, which I am not a part of). I don't want to have to fight a ***** for his life insurance when he croaks.



I'd be more open to the idea of adding a third person to our union, but I seriously doubt we'll find someone compatible. Our relationship is intense, to the point of being a little unhealthy. I doubt we'd be able to share each other to that extent with another person.



Of course, this is my opinion regarding my own personal situation. As always, I don't give a crap what other people do. I am not morally opposed to either situation, or to a traditional marriage for that matter.

gillibean 04-19-2008 04:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennifer N View Post

Are we talking about people having multiple marriages, or a marriage having more than two people at the same time, or both?





I was thinking along the lines of a singular marriage with multiple partners (does that make sense?) than something like you have. People having multiple marriages seems like a very precarious state to be in. I think that there would be more potential for abuse if the partners of the single person had no say over the their partner is involved in. I've been smelling ammonia and bleach all day so it's possible I'm delusional and making so sense whatsoever.

Kiz 04-19-2008 04:52 PM

Both are being discussed, I'm assuming. I'm mostly thinking along the lines of gillibean as well, though, minus ammonia and bleach.


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