Schwarzenegger and character - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 10-17-2003, 01:07 PM
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http://boundless.org/features/a0000816.html



In a historic California gubernatorial recall race where candidates included porn kings, porn stars, a former child star and a sumo wrestler, super-celebrity Arnold Schwarzenegger flexed his fame and showed that politics may indeed be nothing more than show business, now on steroids.

At times during the recall race, it seemed like Californias celebrity-obsessed culture had become a caricature of itself. Gary Coleman, the diminutive former child actor, gamely but lamely debated political issues. Larry Flynt, king of the Hustler porn empire, called himself a smut peddler who cares. And Schwarzenegger a former Mr. Universe turned muscular movie star and businessman announced his entry into the recall circus on The Tonight Show. And when Election Day came October 7, Californians rose in record numbers and apparently blaming Governor Gray Davis for the states $8 billion deficit hurled him from office. In his place, Ahhhnold, the pro-choice Republican, rode a wave of popular support to victory. His challengers littered the political landscape like the body count in Commando.



Sadly, the Terminators victory victimized more than the 135 goofs, gadflies and career politicians who ran against him. Because of credible allegations about Schwarzeneggers character, and their outright dismissal by many, the real losers in the election may be victims of sexual assault, and anyone whos ever believed that political leaders should uphold moral standards. According to well-sourced reports in the Los Angeles Times, Schwarzenegger has a history of sexually assaulting women. But the majority of voters either ignored or dismissed the allegations outright. Sixteen women gave testimony in the articles 11 were willing to be named. The alleged incidents took place in the 80s, 90s and as recently as 2000. They included a woman who said Schwarzenegger slipped his hand up her skirt and grabbed her right buttock, and several who said he grabbed their breasts or made sexual comments to them that are obscene to the point of deviance. Many of the encounters took place in front of other people and left the women feeling violated and humiliated. (Their stories can be read at http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/recall/.)



The allegations against Schwarzenegger suggested a pattern of behavior thats at least disconcerting, if not criminal. None of the women pressed charges or sued Schwarzenegger for the alleged acts, many because they were employed in Hollywood and feared retribution, according to the Times. The reports were sought out by the Times because rumors of Schwarzeneggers behavior have swirled for years in Hollywood, and the paper thought it important to see if they were true. The allegations were independently verified, and the details were as disturbing as they were obscene.



One woman said she was harassed on several occasions while working in 1990 on the set of Terminator 2: Judgment Day. The woman told the Times that Schwarzenegger accosted her in an elevator, as she went to the pool of the hotel where the crew was staying. She was wearing a one-piece swimsuit, she said, which Schwarzenegger tried to remove several times. At least three times if not more he would end up in the elevator with me, groping me and trying to take my robe off, she told the L.A. Times. He would pin me against the corner in the elevator and try to take off her robe and pull down the straps of her suit, she said.



After the published reports of his habitual groping, Schwarzenegger both apologized for his misdeeds and dismissed the allegations as trash politics. According to the Associated Press, he said: Yes, it is true that I was on rowdy movie sets and I have done things that were not right which I thought then was playful but now I recognize that I have offended people. And to those people that I have offended, I want to say to them I am deeply sorry about that and I apologize because this is not what I'm trying to do.



Unlike Schwarzenegger, many of his supporters ignored the allegations because they came from the Los Angeles Times, a newspaper with a liberal reputation. In lieu of critical thinking they shot the messenger. The reports were all part of the grand liberal media conspiracy, they said. This is a heroic intellectual copout considering the Times is bound by libel laws, which say its legal to tell the truth and illegal to tarnish someones reputation with lies. It would be asinine for the Times to libel a man like Schwarzenegger. The actor could hire a platoon of attorneys to bring lawsuits against the paper if the reports were false.



Critics of the paper said the timing of the accusations brought against Schwarzenegger was politically motivated, which the paper denied; but this is beside the point. The point is that moral integrity demands holding ones own political party accountable to the same moral standards opposing parties are held to.



This dismissal of credible sexual assault accusations sends a frightening message. Many knuckle-dragging Neanderthals already treat women as toys. They make jokes to each other in frat houses, locker rooms and boardrooms, but dont openly share their chauvinistic attitudes because people usually take sexual assault allegations seriously. Giving Schwarzenegger a free pass on his alleged conduct must embolden men who have a low view of women. It must also be a blow to victims of sexual assault to see such allegations dismissed, and will likely cause even fewer reports of such already rarely reported offenses. At minimum, Schwarzeneggers supporters could have shown concern about the credible allegations, and made a commitment to investigate them thoroughly after the election.



Also disturbing is the fact that five years ago the Republicans called for the impeachment of President Bill Clinton because of character issues, but now they backslapped Schwarzenegger as he waltzed into the governors office even while admitting to unspecified indiscretions. To be sure, Clinton showed serious character flaws to anyone concerned about morality. In January 1998, he was president of the United States when he lied while under oath in a deposition about having a sexual affair with Monica Lewinsky. For some, the extramarital sexual liaisons in the White House were enough to have Clinton impeached. For others, it was the fact that he compromised justice and set a damaging precedent by lying under oath.



Clintons moral failures and the allegations against Schwarzenegger arent necessarily equal. Clinton was president of the United States when he lied under oath and engaged in a tawdry affair. Plus, the allegations against Clinton were proven to be true. Schwarzenegger wasnt in office when the alleged incidents took place and he hasnt specified which allegations are true. On the other hand, Clintons affair was consensual, while Schwarzenegger is being accused of rampant acts of sexual assault that left lasting emotional scars. The point isnt to judge one man as better or worse, but to say that both men had character issues that should have been taken seriously.



The Republicans wanted Clintons head on a platter. But in the recall election, the California Republican party endorsed Schwarzenegger. I even spoke to Christians who said they were voting for Schwarzenegger because he had the best chance of winning as if choosing the winner justified ignoring potential character flaws. These people said they didnt want to waste their vote by voting for a candidate whos worldview they agreed with like a pro-life candidate with no known character problems. Since when did a vote only matter if it was cast for the winner? We have a representative government, and voters should support the candidate who best represents their worldview. Even if that candidate doesnt win, at least people will know how well that candidate was supported.



The Republicans about-face on character issues has two potential explanations, both of them troubling. One, the Clinton-Lewinsky scandal taught Americans that it really isnt important for political leaders to practice morality. Therefore, Americans should no longer expect that their leaders would be men and women of character. Moral indiscretions are allowable, as long as they dont interfere with the politicians ability to make laws and inspire the citizenry.



The problem with this perspective is that its just plain wrong. Character does count, and if our leaders arent held to the highest standards then all society suffers. Theres really no such thing as personal morality, as if each individual exists in a vacuum. In reality, were social creatures who are influenced by each others examples. When we embrace a leader who has credible allegations of sexual assault against him, we lower the bar for our entire society because a leader sets the tone of acceptable behavior. In the case of Clinton, he demonstrated to America that its apparently OK to violate the integrity of our justice system if a person is under enough pressure. With Schwarzeneggers election, people could conclude that few will care about sexual assault allegations when the accused has power, fame and money.....

Q: How many poets does it take to change a light bulb? A: 1001...one to change the bulb, 1000 to say it's already been done.
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#2 Old 10-17-2003, 01:08 PM
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Now, for the rest of the article...



¨The other possible explanation for the Republicans dismissal of allegations about Schwarzeneggers character is one that will turn an idealist into a cynic: that the GOP never cared about Clintons character either that their foremost goal has always been power and that they only criticized Clintons morality because it was the most easily leveraged weakness to remove him from office. This would explain why the GOP could take a seemingly hypocritical stance of dismissing the allegations against Schwarzenegger.



The voters in California got what they wanted when they swept Schwarzenegger into office. But the cost was great for anyone who values morality. First Clinton and now this its going to be hard for Republicans to demand personal integrity ever again. ¨




What do you think?

Q: How many poets does it take to change a light bulb? A: 1001...one to change the bulb, 1000 to say it's already been done.
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#3 Old 10-17-2003, 02:13 PM
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Some might say the voters got what they deserved. We shall see. We shall see.
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#4 Old 10-17-2003, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by skylark View Post

Now, for the rest of the article...



¨The other possible explanation for the Republicans dismissal of allegations about Schwarzeneggers character is one that will turn an idealist into a cynic: that the GOP never cared about Clintons character either that their foremost goal has always been power and that they only criticized Clintons morality because it was the most easily leveraged weakness to remove him from office. This would explain why the GOP could take a seemingly hypocritical stance of dismissing the allegations against Schwarzenegger.



The voters in California got what they wanted when they swept Schwarzenegger into office. But the cost was great for anyone who values morality. First Clinton and now this its going to be hard for Republicans to demand personal integrity ever again. ¨




What do you think?



I think that the second explanation--quoted above--seems to be correct.



Unfortunately, many self-proclaimed "Christians" only care about morality when it is convenient for them. It's too bad so many of them voted for Schwarzenegger over McClintock. But that's life, I guess.
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#5 Old 10-17-2003, 10:40 PM
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I thought about this a lot, too. Although what schwarzenegger is accused of doing offends me more than Bill Clinton's behavior, I don't care for either. When can we really know the character of the people we are voting for? When our choices of viable candidates are limited, how much power do we really have to elect someone with good moral character, and are all of these qualities less correlated with the qualities that makes someone do well in politics than are qualities that we don't approve of (sexual imposition, womanizing, lying, etc.)



For whatever reason, the kinds of qualities that draw people into politics and are rewarded with success seem to be the same kinds of qualities that may lead people into bad behaviors. I guess what I mean is, how often can a person who lives up to all of our standards for character also be drawn to politics, have the stomach for it, and do well?



Although I am really disgusted by the stories I heard about Arnold, had I agreed with his politics and platform and thought he would be effective in instituting that platform, I would have voted for him anyway.
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#6 Old 10-17-2003, 11:26 PM
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Although I am really disgusted by the stories I heard about Arnold, had I agreed with his politics and platform and thought he would be effective in instituting that platform, I would have voted for him anyway.



I think this only legitimizes the view that women's complaints about sexual harassment should not be taken very seriously. You don't seem to take them seriously. Why should I?
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#7 Old 10-18-2003, 12:03 AM
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I vote for people based on what political decisions I think they can make. Re-read my post.



I am very upset by these things. I have always been a fan of Arnold and now I actually don't even want to watch his movies because those stories make me so sick. I am saddened by the lack of outrage expressed in the media. And of course all the usual accusations that these women were lying.



But like in my post, I am willing to hold my nose and vote for someone like that if I think they will perhaps not make abortion illegal or some other thing I feel is harmful to women like their opponent would do.



I never voted for Clinton, and I don't know what George Bush Sr. or Bob Dole has been like with women, if they have cheated or not, but imo Clinton is the better choice politically for women. I think George Bush Sr stopped funding for family planning that included abortion in foreign countries. Bill Clinton's first act as president was to reverse this. To me, that's is preferred.



But the more I think about it, the less I think I could vote for Arnold whatever he wanted to do as Governor.
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#8 Old 10-20-2003, 05:37 PM
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While I am a Reg Rep. i think of myself as a Repubocrate because..I vote for the best canidate (if that is posible considering the choices) and my beliefe structure is right down the middle.

Now that said...I did vote for Billy once. but my take on Him was this, he did it in the oval ofice...which is bothering (to me). He was married which is a total violation of my belief structure.... and three he lied about it (Once we first chose to decieve what a tangled web we shall weave....) well he lied and for that I have no respect...and to have lied about that which most poeple could have cared less about tells me his advisors were questionable as well, i am glade he was/is Impeached, i will vote for his wife (as far as women go she is one whom I have the least respect for, she is weak...and by not divorcing Bill I question her advisors)

as far as Arnold goes...he was playing grab ass on movie sets....I dont know of any drama circle where grab ass is not part of the day. hell if paying grab ass and talking about hotbodies is wrong then 100% of straight guys are guilty, adn can be in office...hummm.

I think and believe beyond the box of ( a current president bashing when politicing it is to easy to use hind sight and say all that is wrong) I believe arnold will be a good leader he represents what so many take for granted..he came for the dream, and he is fortunate enough to be living it... i for think an Imagrant President would speak volumes to the world about who are and what we want, i would vote him for Pres. if even he can only do 1/3 what he set out to do for Cal.

Governing is chosing and some times the right decison is not the popular..thta is my canidate doing the right thing and not the popular.
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#9 Old 10-20-2003, 09:46 PM
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as far as Arnold goes...he was playing grab ass on movie sets....I dont know of any drama circle where grab ass is not part of the day. hell if paying grab ass and talking about hotbodies is wrong then 100% of straight guys are guilty, adn can be in office...hummm..

Are you serious? It's illegal, it's a form of sexual assult. It's happened to most women, and they can tell you men grabbing your private parts and laughing at you is humiliating, degrading, and frightening. So much so that even a confident feminist-type like me has been far too embarassed to tell many people about some of these incidents that I have experienced.



Did you read the stories? Do you think the activities described in those stories are OK? A person could be in serious legal trouble and labled a sex offender for those acts described. What would you do if Arnold had you alone in an elevator, stuck his hands up your shorts, and firmly grabbed your a** for 20 seconds or so? I bet you'd find it real funny. Or what if he did it in front of a bunch of other men bigger than you and they all laughed at you? Hardy har-har. And even worse, the set is a WORKPLACE?



Do you think 100% of men have forceably grabbed women's personal body areas? I certainly hope that men who know you feel this way will stand up for decency and tell you, no they don't agree with you. No they haven't done that, and no it's not no big deal. That anyone could blow that off the way you just did is high offensive and disgusting to me- making me have no interest in interacting with in any way shape or form.
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#10 Old 10-20-2003, 10:57 PM
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hell if paying grab ass and talking about hotbodies is wrong then 100% of straight guys are guilty



WTF? Have we got a translator around here? I'm concluding from this incoherent crap that American is saying that all heterosexual guys are guilty of some sort of sexual assault.



But I'm not sure because I've never seen such ****ed up typing or mutilation of the English language (American could be talking about a totally different topic for all I know).





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Do you think 100% of men have forceably grabbed women's personal body areas? I certainly hope that men who know you feel this way will stand up for decency and tell you, no they don't agree with you. No they haven't done that, and no it's not no big deal. That anyone could blow that off the way you just did is high offensive and disgusting to me- making me have no interest in interacting with in any way shape or form.



I'm guessing you took it to mean what I did too, Thalia.

I don't agree with American.

I haven't done that.

It is a big deal.



Thankfully most of what American says takes too much effort to decipher, otherwise I'd waste time reading his point of view.
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#11 Old 10-21-2003, 02:28 AM
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In my experience, it is not the typical American male who engages in this behavior, but more often in the typical American male "hero"
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#12 Old 10-21-2003, 03:06 AM
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In my experience, it is not the typical American male who engages in this behavior, but more often in the typical American male "hero"



Which of the two is the majority ?
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#13 Old 10-21-2003, 06:36 AM
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I don't know about the collectinator, but goddamn Terminator 3 was the most boring movie I've seen all year. If having him as governor keeps him from making a fourth one I say keep him in office until he dies.
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#14 Old 10-21-2003, 07:42 AM
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I don't know about the collectinator, but goddamn Terminator 3 was the most boring movie I've seen all year. If having him as governor keeps him from making a fourth one I say keep him in office until he dies.



Thats funny !
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#15 Old 10-21-2003, 10:03 AM
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[QUOTE=Thalia]Are you serious? It's illegal, it's a form of sexual assult. It's happened to most women, and they can tell you men grabbing your private parts and laughing at you is humiliating, degrading, and frightening. So much so that even a confident feminist-type like me has been far too embarassed to tell many people about some of these incidents that I have experienced.



I am saying that grab ass is not sexual assult or misconduct untill the word stop is spoken or comunicated to the offender. the law not me says this. I have patey the arse of many a woman and guy... when told knock it off, or stop I always have...in some cases (most while participating in a school play) the game has had a duality. Now i have seen this get out of where folks are (as you seem to discribe) getting felt up an area above grab arse. These are cases where stop was spoken..or folks found a closet. People show afection many ways some folks do not care for these ways, and it is up to them to say stop or dont do that to me.

The best rule of thumb is not to do it, and while not all grab ass is ment to be "degrading" i understand it can be.

lastly I did read the stories and I my take is of little concern as I believe that most of the "stories" were generated left wing hog wash. I believe that incodents happened, adn that most of these women are simply trying to cash in on mans fame and good fortune.

lastly i believe that if a woman is strong, she will leave a pig husband...and vice versa...and that if she does not leave then he is no pig or she not strong.
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#16 Old 10-21-2003, 10:05 AM
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to have fun i have dialectized the last post for your amusment...met MS. Fud and Elmer



[QWOTE=Dawia]Awe you sewious? It's iwwegaw, it's a fowm of sexuaw assuwt. It's happened to most women, and they can teww you men gwabbing youw pwivate pawts and waughing at you is humiwiating, degwading, and fwightening. So much so that even a confident feminist-type wike me has been faw too embawassed to teww many peopwe about some of these incidents that I have expewienced. I am saying that gwab ass is not sexuaw assuwt ow misconduct untiww the wowd stop is spoken ow comunicated to the offendew. the waw not me says this. Oh, dat scwewy wabbit! I have patey the awse of many a woman and guy... when towd knock it off, ow stop I awways have...in some cases (most whiwe pawticipating in a schoow pway) the game has had a duawity. Now i have seen this get out of whewe fowks awe (as you seem to discwibe) getting fewt up an awea above gwab awse. Dese awe cases whewe stop was spoken, uh-hah-hah-hah. .ow fowks found a cwoset. Peopwe show afection many ways some fowks do not cawe fow these ways, and it is up to them to say stop ow dont do that to me. De best wuwe of thumb is not to do it, and whiwe not aww gwab ass is ment to be "degwading" i undewstand it can be. wastwy I did wead the stowies and I my take is of wittwe concewn as I bewieve that most of the "stowies" wewe genewated weft wing hog wash. I bewieve that incodents happened, adn that most of these women awe simpwy twying to cash in on mans fame and good fowtune. wastwy i bewieve that if a woman is stwong, she wiww weave a pig husband...and vice vewsa...and that if she does not weave then he is no pig ow she not stwong.
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#17 Old 10-21-2003, 10:16 AM
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WTF? Have we got a translato' aroun' hyar? ah's corncludin' fum this hyar incoharnt crap thet South Car'linan is sayin' thet all heterosexual guys is guilty of some so't of sexual assault. But ah's not sho'nuff on account o' I've nevah see sech ****ed up typin' o' mutilashun of th' English language (South Car'linan c'd be talkin' about a mighty diffrunt topic fo' all ah know). ah's guessin' yo' took it t'mean whut ah did too, Thalia. ah doesn't agree wif South Car'linan, as enny fool kin plainly see. ah ain't done thet. It is a trimenjus deal, ah reckon. Thankfully most of whut South Car'linan says takes too much effo't t'decipher, otherwise I'd waste time readin' his point of view.



Lissen Karma Ihope this hyar he'ps but, most ev'ry man i knows has played grab asrse wif a woomin. weather in High Skoo, th' office, at a party. ah hope also thet yo' apresheeate mah butchin' of th' writ wo'd, an' mah tastfull spin on yer hapazard varmintal attack of mah use of said writ wo'd, cuss it all t' tarnation. he did nothin' wrong an' was attacked, cuss it all t' tarnation. Cobie bryant has done nothin' wrong 'cept t'famous, an' stoopid fo' sexin' up a total tramp, ah will nevah claim thet min dont reckon down stairs mighty alot, but mah god yo''d reckon some of these spot light folks'd now by now they is targits.
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#18 Old 10-21-2003, 05:52 PM
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Yeah... ummm, real ****ing cute you moron.
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#19 Old 10-21-2003, 05:56 PM
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Lissen Karma Ihope this hyar he'ps but, most ev'ry man i knows has played grab asrse wif a woomin. weather in High Skoo, th' office, at a party. ah hope also thet yo' apresheeate mah butchin' of th' writ wo'd, an' mah tastfull spin on yer hapazard varmintal attack of mah use of said writ wo'd, cuss it all t' tarnation. he did nothin' wrong an' was attacked, cuss it all t' tarnation. Cobie bryant has done nothin' wrong 'cept t'famous, an' stoopid fo' sexin' up a total tramp, ah will nevah claim thet min dont reckon down stairs mighty alot, but mah god yo''d reckon some of these spot light folks'd now by now they is targits.

Um... whut pert af dha Ozarks ure ya frim, Emaraikkan?
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#20 Old 10-21-2003, 06:01 PM
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Hmmm...according to American's rules, all females should apparently go around with signs saying "do NOT touch me", or else they're fair game for a bit of "grab ass"? Makes me glad I haven't encountered you in real life, American.
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#21 Old 10-21-2003, 06:02 PM
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Or maybe I should say that you're lucky you haven't encountered me in real life.
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#22 Old 10-21-2003, 06:26 PM
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Yeah... ummm, real ****in' hansum yo' mo'on, as enny fool kin plainly see. __________________ Come on varmints now, smile on yer brothers...... ev'rybody git togither, try t'love one t'other right now. I'd rather be daid than right fine.







The deal is this while I have played grab ass. i dont walk the streets grabing ass and breast and crothces....geeezzzzz ya go to jail for that...the idea you are all are blind to for some reason is that people who play grab ass have some type of relationship...it is not just a hardon maruading the work place touching women. It is a game and people know who plays...and if the dont they say i dont care for that, or leave out and yes STOP.



The law is it is not sexual harrasment untill after a person has identifyed the activeity which they find ofensive. That is that, there is no more, Arnold is govGovenor.

Time to hit the forest .
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#23 Old 10-21-2003, 06:34 PM
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The law is, you don't sexually touch someone in the workplace without an invitation, otherwise it IS sexual harassment.
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#24 Old 10-21-2003, 06:38 PM
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The law is, you don't sexually touch someone in the workplace without an invitation, otherwise it IS sexual harassment.





The law is yoou must inform one time what is to be defined as ...as you put it sexual touching, with out that definition no case will stand. Therefore making it grabass untill such a time as one idividual says stop...this basic HR stuff you had better get in touch with your office.....
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#25 Old 10-21-2003, 06:42 PM
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American, I'm a lawyer. I think that you need some basic sexual harassment training, otherwise your employer has some real exposure to a lawsuit, especially if you're in any kind of supervisory position.
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#26 Old 10-21-2003, 06:56 PM
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American,



What is your purpose here? Do you intentionally jumble your posts to annoy people. It is one thing if you can not control how you spell some of the time, but I am getting the feeling your sole purpose here is to troll the boards. Am I correct in assuming that you are trolling? Also you should refrain from doing your jumble game when quoting other people, signatures included.





It is not the responsibility of the woman (or man) to inform everyone (or anyone) they encounter that they do not allow others to grab their ass. If I were to be suddenly grabbed, I would probably put my foot up his ass. This is not about games or whatever it is about respecting other people and if you go around grabbing women you obviously are nothing but an immature jerk, which I guess explains why you are the way you are here on the boards!
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#27 Old 10-21-2003, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by mouse View Post

American, I'm a lawyer. I think that you need some basic sexual harassment training, otherwise your employer has some real exposure to a lawsuit, especially if you're in any kind of supervisory position.



Well please dont represent me then, I am sorry that you have never had the opurtunity to swap sexual enuendos, slap or be slaped on the ass (might knock a diamond out there) but if you look at all the cases of sexuall harassment you will see no one has been convicted of grabass, if a person has not said no, or expressed there diliking of the situtation then there are no grounds. Fact in 1997 I stood tall before the man, for having called a fellow (female Marine) Boobs. She filed sexual harasment against me. After 4 days I was found inocent and she was told that if she disliked the handle she should have not used it in her unit. If she had told me dont call me that, and I had continued i would have been out 30 days pay, loss of stripes, and 30 days extra duty. No one in this world is harder on SH than the service, mouse.
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#28 Old 10-21-2003, 07:01 PM
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#29 Old 10-21-2003, 07:05 PM
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Oh, yes, no one is harder on sexual harassment than the service, huh? I think we've all seen plenty of news stories about THAT.



Grabbing someone's ass, breasts, or "privates" in the workplace is considered so basically outrageous that the law doesn't think that even the most simpleminded need to be told that it's inappropriate.



Don't worry about me representing you; I am choosier than that when it comes to whom I will represent.
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#30 Old 10-21-2003, 07:06 PM
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There is no excuse for grabbing someone's ass. I will not dismiss it to being hollywood and the way things are there. It wouldnt fly for me absolutely anywhere. As far as your attitude American, it sucks. What else can I say...
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