Child Dies After Parents Choose Prayer Over Medicine - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 03-29-2008, 08:34 PM
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WESTON, Wis. (AP) - Police are investigating an 11-year-old girl's death from an undiagnosed, treatable form of diabetes after her parents chose to pray for her rather than take her to a doctor.



An autopsy showed Madeline Neumann died Sunday from diabetic ketoacidosis, a condition that left too little insulin in her body, Everest Metro Police Chief Dan Vergin said.



She had probably been ill for about a month, suffering symptoms such as nausea, vomiting, excessive thirst, loss of appetite and weakness, the chief said Wednesday, noting that he expects to complete the investigation by Friday and forward the results to the district attorney.



The girl's mother, Leilani Neumann, said the family believes in the Bible and that healing comes from God, but she said they do not belong to an organized religion or faith, are not fanatics and have nothing against doctors.

http://www.komotv.com/news/national/17057006.html



I hope the parents are charged, convicted and are given longest possible sentence.
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#2 Old 03-29-2008, 08:42 PM
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I'm not against "religious healing" or praying for well being, But come on. I can't see a parent being able to watch their child suffer like that without geting her medical help. They may have belived it would work, But when it didn't, Why did they continue to allow her to suffer 'til death? I think they should have looked for other ways to give her a chance after a while... I don't know what kind of punishment should be given, I can see both sides here, But I think it comes down to the welfare of the child over personal belief and they should have to do some time for allowing her to die like that.
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#3 Old 03-29-2008, 08:47 PM
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If they want to refuse treatment for themselves, fine. What confuses me is the mother's statement that they have nothing against doctors. If they have no problem with doctors, why would you continue to watch your daughter get sicker and sicker for days and not do something about it.
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#4 Old 03-29-2008, 08:49 PM
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^^^ it seems a contradiction what they are saying ....cant see why they didn't use both , prayer and Dr
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#5 Old 03-29-2008, 09:46 PM
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These stories are always so sad.... poor little children at the mercy of ignorant parents.

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#6 Old 03-29-2008, 09:49 PM
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I'd almost think the parents were trying to kill off their child -- then decided to use the "faith healing" to get away with it, by figuring no one would press charges as it'd be an attack against religion.



But I say that only since they said they don't have a problem with doctors, which contradicts. Pray for someone to get better, doesn't happen, if you don't have problems with doctors you'd take them to see one -- not keep on praying for divine assistance.
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#7 Old 03-30-2008, 06:10 AM
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This reminds me of that story about the guy in the flash flood. As the water approaches, the National Guard comes round with a big truck and helps people out, leaving their possessions behind. One stubborn man says calmly "That's alright...God will save me." Everyone leaves and the man's house begins to flood. A rescue boat comes by, but the man refuses to get in saying that God will save him. Soon the man is on top of his house because of the rising waters, when a helicopter hovers overhead. Still, the man stays put, saying that God will save him.



Not long after, the man drowns. When he gets to heaven, he says to God, "I don't believe it, why didn't you save me?" God replies, "I sent a truck, a boat and a helicopter, what more do you want?".



Praying is all well and good, but maybe sometimes God's answer is to get your ass to a doctor.




The ones I pity are the ones who never stick out their neck for something they believe, never know the taste of moral struggle, and never have the thrill of victory. - Jonathan Kozol
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#8 Old 03-30-2008, 06:17 AM
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The girl's mother, Leilani Neumann, said the family believes in the Bible and that healing comes from God,



well, that was a life lesson for her wasnt it.
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#9 Old 03-30-2008, 07:03 AM
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that's really sad
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#10 Old 03-30-2008, 07:30 AM
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Wow. That's unbelievably sad, and I hope other parents do not do this.
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#11 Old 03-30-2008, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by IamJen View Post


Praying is all well and good, but maybe sometimes God's answer is to get your ass to a doctor.



That sums up my thoughts, too.



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#12 Old 03-30-2008, 09:48 AM
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If prayer worked the human species would have been at optimal health during the dark ages. What ignorance of modern medicine. This is child abuse.
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#13 Old 03-30-2008, 12:42 PM
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It really is child abuse and really sad.
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#14 Old 03-30-2008, 02:14 PM
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This reminds me of that story about the guy in the flash flood.....



There's similar stories like that one involving the lottery. A guy keeps on praying to win the lottery. More and more number pickings later and he never wins. Finally he breaks down and asks god why -- and he gets the reply "meet me halfway, buy a lottery ticket"
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#15 Old 03-30-2008, 03:03 PM
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Surely it's illegal to deny a child life-saving medicine? I mean, religion is well and good, and prayer is too, if you actually think that might help, but...
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#16 Old 04-05-2008, 02:18 AM
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This makes no sense to me.



Although it isn't directly related, this type of attitude reminds of me of when Christians (perhaps other religious groups as well??) say that women should not take birth control because it is going against God's will. If God is able to impregnate a virgin, like they claim, a pill isn't going to stop him.
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#17 Old 04-05-2008, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Gwendolyn View Post

Wow. That's unbelievably sad, and I hope other parents do not do this.



Unfortunately, they do, and it's not limited to children of pseudo-Christian wackos, either. At the daycare where I'm volunteering in Bolivia, a mother brought her very ill son to us three weeks ago. He was so sick, passing out most of the time, clearly dehydrated and with a myriad of other problems, that the nurse told the mother she must get him to the hospital ASAP. She gave her a recommendation for a specific hospital and a specific doctor. (Mind you, health care for children under 5 in Bolivia is completely subsidized by the federal government, so this woman knew she would not have to fork over a single peso.)



A few days later, we hadn't heard anything from the mother. The nurse called the hospital she'd recommended to ask if the mother had been there. (Health records privacy laws are virtually nil here.) The staff told her yes, the mother had been there, and an examination indicated her son was gravely ill and needed to be admitted to a hospital right away. They recommended she take him to a different hospital because the specialists there were better at caring for her son's condition than they were. So the nurse called this second hospital. They had never even heard of the boy or his mother.



The nurse and the daycare director told me they suspect the mother took her son to a witch doctor after getting her son's diagnosis at the first hospital. The vast majority of the people who move to this city from the remote sections of Bolivia, like this woman, believe in tribal religions that center around animism and witch doctors. If this woman took her son to a witch doctor and did not get any standard medical care for him, then he is most certainly dead by now barring the miracle she was hoping for.



The children services system here is so slow even in provable cases where the parents themselves are beating their children within an inch of their lives. Taking one's child to a witch doctor instead of a hospital wouldn't even raise an eyebrow at children services, even if the child died.

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#18 Old 04-07-2008, 09:54 PM
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Religion is at fault......that is all.
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#19 Old 04-07-2008, 09:56 PM
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I don't think religion is at fault in this case. The mother didn't belong to any "extremist" groups that prohibited doctors, didn't even think doctors were against god's will.
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#20 Old 04-07-2008, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by IamJen View Post




Praying is all well and good, but maybe sometimes God's answer is to get your ass to a doctor.






Shouldn't you take your ass to a vet?
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#21 Old 04-08-2008, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr_Vegan View Post

Religion is at fault......that is all.



Religion is just a bunch of stories; people are at fault.
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#22 Old 04-08-2008, 07:30 AM
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Religion is at fault......that is all.



I think that is letting the parents off too easy.



They made conscious choices that clearly put their child at risk. When they had the opportunity to safely and easily save their child, they chose not to. I don't see how you can call this anything other than child abuse and the parents are 100% to blame.
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#23 Old 04-08-2008, 08:01 PM
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Wow - I'm a bit surprised (and encouraged) that no one has come in yet defending this.
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#24 Old 04-08-2008, 08:02 PM
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Wow - I'm a bit surprised (and encouraged) that no one has come in yet defending this.



Maybe they know deep down how ridiculous it is
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#25 Old 04-08-2008, 08:03 PM
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Maybe they know deep down how ridiculous it is





I think so too - however, it seems that doesn't always stop people.
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#26 Old 04-08-2008, 08:06 PM
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I think that the vast majority of religious people are not like that.



We see a few sensationalized, extreme cases (that are very sad nonetheless) and we sometimes essentialize all religious people to be this way.



I am personally not religious, but I have seen this phenomena take place many times. (terrorism and islamic people, for example)
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#27 Old 04-08-2008, 08:42 PM
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I think that the vast majority of religious people are not like that.



We see a few sensationalized, extreme cases (that are very sad nonetheless) and we sometimes essentialize all religious people to be this way. ...



I agree with you - That's not what I'm saying. But I remember there was a situation similar to this awhile back, and many people out there, and on here defended it in the name of these people's beliefs.
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#28 Old 04-08-2008, 09:23 PM
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I agree with you - That's not what I'm saying. But I remember there was a situation similar to this awhile back, and many people out there, and on here defended it in the name of these people's beliefs.



Yeah, I have had those experiences too. People can be freaking crazy sometimes.



Unfortunately, many religions do not encourage healthy questioning or dissent. I have been to churches (that I would say could be considered average) that ask God to remove their doubts (aka not question what this religion is saying) and that these people should be prepared to die for their religion. This can be potentially very dangerous.
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#29 Old 04-09-2008, 04:48 AM
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Originally Posted by taryn View Post

Yeah, I have had those experiences too. People can be freaking crazy sometimes.



Unfortunately, many religions do not encourage healthy questioning or dissent. I have been to churches (that I would say could be considered average) that ask God to remove their doubts (aka not question what this religion is saying) and that these people should be prepared to die for their religion. This can be potentially very dangerous.



To my mind - this may be the fatal flaw within 'organized' religion.
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#30 Old 04-28-2008, 04:01 PM
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080428/...byWM__yKNH2ocA



WESTON, Wis. - A couple who prayed as their 11-year-old daughter died of untreated diabetes will be charged with second-degree reckless homicide, a prosecutor said Monday.



"It is very surprising, shocking that she wasn't allowed medical intervention," Marathon County District Attorney Jill Falstad said.





Madeline Neumann, daughter of Dale and Leilani Neumann, died March 23 at the family's rural Weston home. An autopsy determined she died from undiagnosed diabetic ketoacidosis, an ailment that left her with too little insulin in her body.



The Neumanns each face up to 25 years in prison if convicted. Charges were being filed later Monday, Falstad said.



I'm so glad they are being charged
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