proposed tax on breeding - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 12-13-2007, 10:57 PM
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#2 Old 12-14-2007, 12:59 AM
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Will not happen.
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#3 Old 12-14-2007, 01:11 AM
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I dont agree with people having to pay a levy if they have more than two kids but I definitely think the $5,000 baby bonus should scrapped. we shouldnt be paying people to have babies.
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#4 Old 12-14-2007, 03:54 PM
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The idea of taxing babies makes me itch...but something has to be done about the over population that is taxing this planet to its breaking point...
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#5 Old 12-14-2007, 04:03 PM
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The planet is taxed to it's breaking point because of lifestyle choices in developed countries - many of which have static or deplenishing populations.



The problem isn't breeding - it's consumption.
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#6 Old 12-14-2007, 04:05 PM
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I agree: taxing breeding is justified more by other ecological concerns than overpopulation ;-)

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#7 Old 12-14-2007, 04:17 PM
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Put the taxes into education - particularly education about environmental concerns and population studies. I am still flummoxed there are people who think that there not enough humans in the world and that if they don't get to breeding ASAP we'll all die out. The "baby bonus" thing is insane - that really needs to be scrapped. Why don't I get bonuses for my lifestyle choices?

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#8 Old 12-14-2007, 05:27 PM
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Whoa, really? Most industrialized countries have a pretty low fertility rate so they generally encourage breeding. Especially since the baby boomers are about to start retiring, which will be a massive strain.
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#9 Old 12-14-2007, 07:25 PM
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Import them from the places that have too many. Open up immigration. Accept refugees. There are plenty of options before mindlessly breeding more and more and more and more and more humans.

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#10 Old 12-15-2007, 03:40 PM
 
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Can one of the Aussies elaborate more on the "baby bonus"?



It sure seems like a tax would have a disproportionate effect on the poor/those with lower incomes.

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#11 Old 12-15-2007, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor View Post

Whoa, really? Most industrialized countries have a pretty low fertility rate so they generally encourage breeding. Especially since the baby boomers are about to start retiring, which will be a massive strain.



Elaborate please.

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#12 Old 12-16-2007, 05:06 AM
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elaborate on how boomers are gong to be a big strain?



in the US, the social security system is basically completely bonked, and with a dwindling youth population, there may not be enough people to support social security, as well as support the growing needs of a large, elder population.
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#13 Old 12-16-2007, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevenseas View Post

I agree: taxing breeding is justified more by other ecological concerns than overpopulation ;-)



Isn't that what overpopulation is? When the population reaches a level that isn't ecologically sustainable? If taxing or slower breeding would relieve these ecological problems then it is overpopulation.



I think many take a narrow view of overpopulation on whether or no every person could eat or some such definition.
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#14 Old 12-18-2007, 01:21 AM
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Originally Posted by WonderRandy View Post

Elaborate please.



Well there are developed countries such as Germany, Japan, etc. that are having a problem with low fertility rates (intentionally). As a result, no one is left to care for elders, taxes, etc. and it is a public health concern. In other words these countries (and many other developed countries) are currently at less than the replacement rate which is not desirable.



World wide overpopulation is a problem, but country to country underpopulation can be a problem as well. So some countries offer incentives.

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#15 Old 12-18-2007, 01:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WonderRandy View Post

Elaborate please.



Well there are countries such as Germany, Japan, etc. that are having a problem with low fertility. As a result, no one is left to care for elders, taxes, etc. and it is a public health concern. In other words these countries (and many other developed countries) are currently at less than the replacement rate which is not desirable.



World wide overpopulation is a problem, but country to country underpopulation can be a problem as well. Therefore, there are incentives for certain couples to procreate.

‎"I just think there's something in being lost. I never feel lost. I just think, 'Oh. I've taken a diversion'." ~ Karl Pilkington
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#16 Old 12-18-2007, 01:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WonderRandy View Post

Elaborate please.



Well, there are countries such as Germany, Japan, etc. that are having a problem with low birthrate. As a result, no one is left to care for elders, taxes, etc. and it is a public health concern. In other words, these countries (and many other developed countries) are currently at less than the replacement rate which is not desirable.



World wide overpopulation is a problem, but country to country underpopulation can be a problem as well. Therefore, there are incentives for couples to procreate in many industrialized nations.

‎"I just think there's something in being lost. I never feel lost. I just think, 'Oh. I've taken a diversion'." ~ Karl Pilkington
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#17 Old 12-18-2007, 01:57 AM
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Low fertility or low birthrate? They are very different things.

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#18 Old 12-18-2007, 02:21 AM
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Birthrate definitely. Thanks for the correction. I will correct that.

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#19 Old 12-18-2007, 02:23 AM
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Some places do seem to have lowered fertility though. I thought you might have meant birthrate but I wasn't 100% sure.

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#20 Old 12-18-2007, 02:28 AM
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I know. No I meant birth rate. Thanks for the correction

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#21 Old 12-20-2007, 07:47 AM
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I don't think they should tax people for having kids, but I would like to see US tax law remove the child tax credits. Good luck finding a comparable tax credit if you don't have kids.
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#22 Old 12-20-2007, 03:48 PM
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Maybe the things that need to be taxed are those things which are consumed, because every individual is going to consume a different amount. It may even be possible for a person to tread so lightly on this planet, and to give back so much, as to actually reverse his/her negative impact. I think pkk is mostly right about the problem being consumption and not breeding, but a part of me thinks that no matter how much consumption is curbed, this planet can only sustain so many people. I wonder if the people that are proposing this tax believe that we are at a point where, even if consumption was minimized, there are just too many people, globally.
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#23 Old 12-20-2007, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Muse View Post

I don't think they should tax people for having kids, but I would like to see US tax law remove the child tax credits. Good luck finding a comparable tax credit if you don't have kids.



I agree.
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#24 Old 12-20-2007, 11:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holly golightly View Post

Well, there are countries such as Germany, Japan, etc. that are having a problem with low birthrate. As a result, no one is left to care for elders, taxes, etc. and it is a public health concern. In other words, these countries (and many other developed countries) are currently at less than the replacement rate which is not desirable.



I think it is desirable, at this time, for all countries to have a birthrate so low that there is less than the replacement rate. It is desirable to have less people and perhaps rather than worry about taxes and such, we should worry about redefining our social lives.



Quote:
Originally Posted by holly golightly View Post

World wide overpopulation is a problem, but country to country underpopulation can be a problem as well. Therefore, there are incentives for couples to procreate in many industrialized nations.



I don't think underpopulation for a given country should ever be a concern if globally there is an overpopulation concern. There should be incentives for immigration, not procreation.

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#25 Old 12-21-2007, 03:37 AM
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I agree with what you are saying somewhat Nogardsram, but the Australian Government is worried about lack of young people in the workforce paying taxes to support the elderly. Hence the baby bonus. There was no bonus when I had my children. I believe it's a few thousand now?



As for the baby "carbon emission" tax. If the babies born were vegan that would offset the emissions. So .. heaven forbid.. If I was to have another child and the tax was in effect, I would perhaps argue that since my child will not be contributing to the destruction of the planet by supporting animal farming, I do not feel that my child should be taxed.



I do realise there are a lot of other problems besides animal farming that our planet faces, but that is one of the big ones.
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#26 Old 12-21-2007, 08:01 AM
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I agree with what you are saying somewhat Nogardsram, but the Australian Government is worried about lack of young people in the workforce paying taxes to support the elderly.



So why not support immigration instead? It seems to solve problems better than supporting procreation.

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#27 Old 12-28-2007, 01:19 PM
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"I think self-important professors with silly ideas should have to pay carbon tax for all the hot air they create,"...I like this quote from the article.

I personally know child-free couples that spew loads more carbon emmissions than my family of 4.
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#28 Old 12-28-2007, 01:23 PM
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no bonus when I had my children. I believe it's a few thousand now?



As for the baby "carbon emission" tax. If the babies born were vegan that would offset the emissions. So .. heaven forbid.. If I was to have another child and the tax was in effect, I would perhaps argue that since my child will not be contributing to the destruction of the planet by supporting animal farming, I do not feel that my child should be taxed.



My kids were/are cloth diapered, breastfed and vegetarian. It'd be a cold day in hell when I pay the government money for having a child.
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#29 Old 12-28-2007, 05:32 PM
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"I think self-important professors with silly ideas should have to pay carbon tax for all the hot air they create,"...I like this quote from the article.

I personally know child-free couples that spew loads more carbon emmissions than my family of 4.



The tax is not based on comparing child-free couples to you personally.



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My kids were/are cloth diapered, breastfed and vegetarian. It'd be a cold day in hell when I pay the government money for having a child.



Why should people who have children get tax breaks here in the USA?

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#30 Old 12-28-2007, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by nogardsram View Post








Why should people who have children get tax breaks here in the USA?

I don't know what motivated the government to give tax breaks to people with children. I can't really answer your question, because I don't really have a strong opinion either way. However, I gladly take it every year. We end up owing every year becaue I'm self employed. I'll take whatever tax breaks I can get
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