Is it appropriate for VB to promote unethical multinationals? - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 11-07-2007, 02:23 AM
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Recently, a Nestlé product was promoted in VB's Frugal Forum

I was surprised by this as I would have expected at least a minimal standard of ethics from a veg*n site.

Nestle and other formula manufacturers, by pushing their products aggressively and in breach of the WHO Code have caused the death of millions of infants and I can't understand why anyone wouldn't be incensed by this.

According to a Guardian article:

'(Dr) Kabir's anger is directed at the manufacturers of baby formula. Like many of his fellow health professionals, he believes these manufacturers push their products too aggressively, sometimes breaching the stipulations of an international code on the marketing of formula milk drawn up in 1981, ratified by member states of the World Health Organisation, and enshrined in law in Bangladesh since 1984.

That code, in turn, had been prompted by public support of an international boycott of the products of the company that seemed most culpable 30 years ago: Nestlé.'



And:

'According to Save the Children's report, infant mortality in Bangladesh alone could be cut by almost a third - saving the lives of 314 children every day - if breastfeeding rates were improved. Globally, the organisation believes, 3,800 lives could be saved each day. Given that world leaders are committed to cutting infant mortality by two thirds by 2015 as one of the Millennium Development Goals, protecting and promoting breastfeeding is almost certainly the biggest single thing that could be done to better child survival rates.

But the formula companies, despite the international code, continue to undermine campaigners' efforts. Throughout the west as well as in the developing world, the amounts spent on "breast is best" campaigns are dwarfed by the amounts food manufacturers spend on promoting their products: in the UK, for example, Save the Children reckons that for every £1 spent in 2006-7 on breastfeeding promotion, £10 was spent by manufacturers on advertising and promoting baby milk and foods.'



The above mentioned article is well worth reading in full.

There is also a lot of info at the Baby Milk Action site.
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#2 Old 11-07-2007, 02:27 AM
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The ads are automated.
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#3 Old 11-07-2007, 02:32 AM
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The ads are automated.



If you took the trouble to follow the link to the Frugal Forum that I gave, you'd realise how silly ^that^ is.
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#4 Old 11-07-2007, 02:34 AM
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Huh, Im not sure, I didn't read it all, and I have alway been a proponent of breast feeding. But isn't the dirty water the real culprit here?
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#5 Old 11-07-2007, 02:39 AM
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Huh, Im not sure, I didn't read it all, and I have alway been a proponent of breast feeding. But isn't the dirty water the real culprit here?



If they were breastfeeding, the dirty water wouldn't be an issue.

Mothers also overdilute formula to save money.
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#6 Old 11-07-2007, 02:43 AM
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If they were breastfeeding, the dirty water wouldn't be an issue.

Mothers also overdilute formula to save money.



The dirty water should alway be an issue as is taking responability to raise your child responably.

But I'm still reading it so I can't say as I understand the whole point of the article as of yet.
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#7 Old 11-07-2007, 02:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Bof View Post

If you took the trouble to follow the link to the Frugal Forum that I gave, you'd realise how silly ^that^ is.



Wait, what? Free stuff contributes nothing to them. Hell, it costs them. I can't believe you're whining about free candy bars.
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#8 Old 11-07-2007, 02:51 AM
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Cool. Free candy bars. Thanks for the link.
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#9 Old 11-07-2007, 02:57 AM
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Is it irresponsible for illiterate people to believe that, if they feed formula to their babies, they will be as healthy as western kids, especially when sales staff pretend to be nurses.

It's disingenuous to suggest that parents in the third world don't want the best for their kids.
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#10 Old 11-07-2007, 02:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bof View Post

If you took the trouble to follow the link to the Frugal Forum that I gave, you'd realise how silly ^that^ is.



Huh? The ads are automated. The software that places the ads searches for key words and pops in random ads that are "appropriate". That's why we get odd things like ads for bulk gelatine in threads dedicated to ranting about how bad gelatine is. Nestle threads will garner more Nestle threads. I bet if I wasn't using Firefox with adblock I'd soon be seeing Nestle ads in this thread, too. Try it. Nestle, Nestle, Nestle! Nestle!



Oh... that ad. My rant is more that these free things are never for Aussies! Damn your eyes, you rascally Yankees, stealing all the freebies!

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#11 Old 11-07-2007, 03:03 AM
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No - Michael posted a link to free candy bars. Check it out:



https://www.veggieboards.com/boards/s...ad.php?t=78772
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#12 Old 11-07-2007, 03:04 AM
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No - Michael posted a link to free candy bars. Check it out:



https://www.veggieboards.com/boards/s...ad.php?t=78772



I know - saw it and edited my post while you were posting this. Damned-by-God freebie-getting USian!

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#13 Old 11-07-2007, 03:06 AM
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Wait, what? Free stuff contributes nothing to them. Hell, it costs them. I can't believe you're whining about free candy bars.



You really need to improve your comprehension skills.

My question is about promoting a company. Giving free samples is one way of promoting a product and why would they do it if it wasn't cost effective?



And why would I bother to discuss anything with someone who feels a need to say 'I hate you. Burn in hell' (or whatever) every time they post?
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#14 Old 11-07-2007, 03:06 AM
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It's our just due as leaders of the 'free' world.
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#15 Old 11-07-2007, 03:35 AM
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Considering who hangs out here, yes it's appropo.
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#16 Old 11-07-2007, 05:13 AM
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Action idea: write 'Nestle' on dog muck bins; that would be the sort of promotion that I would approve of.

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#17 Old 11-07-2007, 06:53 AM
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Wow. So the recent dramas weren't enough for you?



You need to read the memo. Attacking me is much more politically correct, and a hell of a lot more entertaining.
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#18 Old 11-07-2007, 07:30 AM
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Since the specific forum is about bring frugal specifically and not related to veg*nism or activism, it appears to fit.

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#19 Old 11-07-2007, 07:35 AM
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The only one who is 'allowed' to decide what is appropriate, how rules and TOS are to be interpreted is the owner of the board. What we think really does not matter, as we are just guests here.

"Yes! Live! Life's a banquet and most poor suckers are starving to death!" Auntie Mame
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#20 Old 11-07-2007, 07:40 AM
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Bof, I think that getting on Michael for providing a link to a free chocolate bar is kinda picky.



A better thread, in my opinion, would be on the whole infant formula problem that you referenced in your initial post.
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#21 Old 11-07-2007, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Savannah View Post

A better thread, in my opinion, would be on the whole infant formula problem that you referenced in your initial post.



I think it's been done before, or perhaps it was another board I used to go to...I remember discussing it in detail with people who had no idea why Nestle is an unethical company, either way.

"Yes! Live! Life's a banquet and most poor suckers are starving to death!" Auntie Mame
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#22 Old 11-07-2007, 08:00 AM
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It's been done. Many times.



My only disappointment is that I am unable to buy any Nestle stock.
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#23 Old 11-07-2007, 08:02 AM
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Actualize your dreams! Perhaps there's a 'Black Market' option, but it looks available to me.



http://www.nestle.com/InvestorRelati...StockQuote.htm

"Yes! Live! Life's a banquet and most poor suckers are starving to death!" Auntie Mame
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#24 Old 11-07-2007, 08:34 AM
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Unfortunately all of my money is currently tied up in bling.
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#25 Old 11-07-2007, 08:46 AM
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i ignored the nestle post in the frugal forum, mostly cos i'm not a huge fan of nestle- i know a little about the unethical things they've done with formula.



i was hopeful that many other veg*ns also knew about this, but i think it would be great to add more info for those who don't (just like you did with coke). maybe an action alert? i'm not sure the best place to put such info. or you could always put a link to info about nestle into the offending frugal forum post, right? eta: i see you did, great



i think that with the broadest understanding of the term vegetarian not really containing any ethical stuff, (it seems to be just 'they don't eat animals') and this being a vegetarian and vegan site, i think it'd be difficult to maintain a cut off about which companies are deemed ok to be talked about, and by whom, without being restrictive on peoples liberties and personal choices (however dubious and damaging others may beleive them to be). people on this board also talk about shopping in walmart and other stores which aren't great ethically, eating in fast food places, and smoking (harmful to themselves and innocents around them) too.



where should the line be, and who should decide it?



i'm guessing you'll reply 'Me'



incidently, i'm suprised how few people initially clued into what you were talking about !?!.
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#26 Old 11-07-2007, 09:31 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *AHIMSA* View Post

The only one who is 'allowed' to decide what is appropriate, how rules and TOS are to be interpreted is the owner of the board. What we think really does not matter, as we are just guests here.







Michael most certainly takes into account what people think, he just doesn't always agree.

The ones I pity are the ones who never stick out their neck for something they believe, never know the taste of moral struggle, and never have the thrill of victory. - Jonathan Kozol
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#27 Old 11-07-2007, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *AHIMSA* View Post

The only one who is 'allowed' to decide what is appropriate, how rules and TOS are to be interpreted is the owner of the board. What we think really does not matter, as we are just guests here.



It's not like I broke one of my own rules. There's no rule against posting links to free candy bars.



Quote:
I was surprised by this as I would have expected at least a minimal standard of ethics from a veg*n site.



You assume everyone is veg*n for the same reason as you. For some reason that doesn't surprise me.



You posted your opinion in that thread. If people want to get a free candy bar they can. If they don't they don't. Just because I post an opinion or a link doesn't mean that "VeggieBoards supports it." Everyone here has their own opinion and when it comes to things like this mine shouldn't be made more important than anyone else's.

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#28 Old 11-07-2007, 09:48 AM
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There's no rule against posting links to free candy bars.



I think it should be required.
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#29 Old 11-07-2007, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bof View Post

You really need to improve your comprehension skills.

My question is about promoting a company. Giving free samples is one way of promoting a product and why would they do it if it wasn't cost effective?



And why would I bother to discuss anything with someone who feels a need to say 'I hate you. Burn in hell' (or whatever) every time they post?



No, you're whining. If it was just a question of promotion, nothing was stopping you from telling people "hey, these guys do whatever, don't actually go buying stuff from them" and leaving it at that.
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#30 Old 11-07-2007, 01:55 PM
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Im so glad people "discuss" things. I would never have known about the free candy bar.
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