WTF is up with the Anti-American attitude lately? - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 11-01-2007, 12:02 AM
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I realize that the USA is not a spectacular place, but what other place is really so much better? USA/American (not that all Americans are USA people, but people seem to equate the two, that's a whole other rant though...) bashing just seems to emphasize the egotistical nationalism anywhere.



I also realize that there is a general anti-US attitude the world over, but do we really have to give into the stereotyping on VB?



Perhaps the attitude has just been in a lot of threads I've been reading lately and not any more common than usual.

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#2 Old 11-01-2007, 12:07 AM
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Yeah. I've noticed it a lot lately and I'm pretty tired of it, as well.
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#3 Old 11-01-2007, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by nogardsram View Post

I realize that the USA is not a spectacular place, but what other place is really so much better?



Australia! (Well, you did ask)
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#4 Old 11-01-2007, 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Bof View Post

Australia! (Well, you did ask)



Okay, so why are the people of Australia so much better?

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#5 Old 11-01-2007, 12:30 AM
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I have noticed it before, but I haven't seen it lately that much. Maybe I've just missed it this time around.



Quote:
I realize that the USA is not a spectacular place, but what other place is really so much better?



I think it's all subjective.



It depends what sort of lifestyle you're after too. I have an affection for parts of the US and certain aspects of the culture, but I couldn't live there permanantly. Every place has it's pros and cons though.

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#6 Old 11-01-2007, 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Bof View Post

Australia! (Well, you did ask)



You should've seen that one coming Nogardsram

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#7 Old 11-01-2007, 12:40 AM
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Yeah, I would expect no less from Bof.



I'm just interested in actual reasons more than (blind or misguided?) nationalism.

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#8 Old 11-01-2007, 12:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nogardsram View Post

I realize that the USA is not a spectacular place, but what other place is really so much better?

http://freedom.indiemaps.com

Keep on freepin' on

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#9 Old 11-01-2007, 01:07 AM
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What anti-Americanism are you talking about? Maybe I haven't been paying enough attention.
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#10 Old 11-01-2007, 01:30 AM
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It boils down to "I'm apprehensive about a world with one superpower."

yes, it does give one pause for a moment. maybe it gives people a rebellious feel but there's nothing risky about anti-americanism because america doesn't feel threatened by it. most the arguments are not so much american policy but the "empire of the mind" america that is a flattening world culture and economy.



the non-americans feel unease because sometimes they recognize that they've taken on some "american" traits. the frenchman complains about a mcdonalds in the culinary capital but yet it still stands there because the french eat mcdonalds. how can that be? what an insidious american trick? sacrebleu!



you've been raised on grandeur holding out with subsidies and government feel good propaganda against the realities of the world.

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#11 Old 11-01-2007, 01:48 AM
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I haven't noticed anything.



But in my worldview, bashing any state is never wrong. States are irrelevant constructions. I feel no need to defend my country/state from any criticism. I may feel the need to defend some people living in my country from criticism, but I'm not interested in defending my country.

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#12 Old 11-01-2007, 02:17 AM
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Originally Posted by otomik View Post


you've been raised on grandeur holding out with subsidies and government feel good propaganda against the realities of the world.



? I have been?

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#13 Old 11-01-2007, 02:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Sevenseas View Post

I haven't noticed anything.



But in my worldview, bashing any state is never wrong. States are irrelevant constructions. I feel no need to defend my country/state from any criticism. I may feel the need to defend some people living in my country from criticism, but I'm not interested in defending my country.



:shrug: I guess it's just been in some of the threads I've read lately. I can't remember all the threads I read, but it seemed like I read a bunch and in most there was some American bashing... (I realize 'bunch' and 'most' are not very good quantifiers, but it came to my attention)



I agree about the state bashing is not wrong, I guess I was not clear enough on that, it's the bashing of people from the US, which people often label as American (as if Americans were only from the US).



So while I think there are people who suck in the USA, I think there are people who suck the world over, and I have a hard time believing that any place is particularly void of these sucky people or that the US has a particularly high quantity, as compared to other places, of sucky people.



I remember reading a number of comments segregating and bashing American humor (as if all Americans have the same humor), how Americans are rich, lazy, greedy, naive, blah, blah, as compared to some other place or even the rest of the world...

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#14 Old 11-01-2007, 03:34 AM
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I find fault in the people of the U.S. for failing to elect a moral government, a government that would faithfully address the unjust idea that corporations may lawfully exert undue influence over policies in the name of profits and at the expense of others around the world.
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#15 Old 11-01-2007, 06:11 AM
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I find fault in the people of the U.S. for failing to elect a moral government, a government that would faithfully address the unjust idea that corporations may lawfully exert undue influence over policies in the name of profits and at the expense of others around the world.



I didn't see an option for that on the ballot.







I wish I had the money of the American stereotype and could afford to be lazy. I do find some of the stereotypes interesting. A couple of my professors from China were afraid to come to the US due to the assumption that all of us owned guns.
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#16 Old 11-01-2007, 06:27 AM
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I'm not sure what exactly you're referring to (because I don't spend a lot of time in the compost heap, nor am I particularly concerned with criticism of any country, including my own), but I know from the perspective of animal welfare/rights, most european countries are moving (moderately far) ahead of the US (you'd have to do individual searches to learn each country's policies, but the eu is helping to push things along).

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#17 Old 11-01-2007, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nogardsram View Post

:shrug: I guess it's just been in some of the threads I've read lately. I can't remember all the threads I read, but it seemed like I read a bunch and in most there was some American bashing... (I realize 'bunch' and 'most' are not very good quantifiers, but it came to my attention)



I agree about the state bashing is not wrong, I guess I was not clear enough on that, it's the bashing of people from the US, which people often label as American (as if Americans were only from the US).



So while I think there are people who suck in the USA, I think there are people who suck the world over, and I have a hard time believing that any place is particularly void of these sucky people or that the US has a particularly high quantity, as compared to other places, of sucky people.



I remember reading a number of comments segregating and bashing American humor (as if all Americans have the same humor), how Americans are rich, lazy, greedy, naive, blah, blah, as compared to some other place or even the rest of the world...



I agree. I don't really care if people bash our government, whatever, but there have been times on this board that I've felt personally pigeonholed because someone's made a blanket statement or insult against all the people in the US. Once or twice, okay, funny stereotype guys, but over and over it starts to get really old. We don't all fit into those stereotypes, we didn't all vote for the current administration, and a lot of us are actually intelligent respectful people who don't like being lumped into a very unfavorable stereotype every time the word "United States" is mentioned.
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#18 Old 11-01-2007, 06:52 AM
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I don't advocate baseless bashing, so if that's what you mean by "anti-american attitude", I agree that that would be bad.



On the other hand, I think a lot of people outside of the USA (myself included) were a little disconcerted to see the US Americans elect the Bush clan twice. Now, one can forgive someone for messing up once in a while, but two times in a row is a little much. IMO the policies of the Bush administration have been detrimental to the USA's reputation and relations with other countries.



ETA: I understand of course that a majority of US Americans on VB never voted for the Bush-ites.

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#19 Old 11-01-2007, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otomik View Post

It boils down to "I'm apprehensive about a world with one superpower."

yes, it does give one pause for a moment. maybe it gives people a rebellious feel but there's nothing risky about anti-americanism because america doesn't feel threatened by it. most the arguments are not so much american policy but the "empire of the mind" america that is a flattening world culture and economy.

pause for a moment, and the whole world gets to be semi-empirically an empire of the mind, (half way house of the mind, haha, is that funny btw?... just asking, hehe)



Whatever I think you're saying (?) and I mean "whatever" loosely.... I will assume the

cordiality of reasoned debate, and use this in correlation with your thought that, the more we think about it, the more we get obsessed with the threats that loom ?? I think so... its natural common logic.... Only its not just politicians that have to worry about that, as it effects all our mentalities eventually.



Nevermind that though: Instead, just help define will you what is EMPIRE OF THE MIND please !!



Quote:
the non-americans feel unease because sometimes they recognize that they've taken on some "american" traits. the frenchman complains about a mcdonalds in the culinary capital but yet it still stands there because the french eat mcdonalds. how can that be? what an insidious american trick? sacrebleu!

Well totally, if divided these elements are merely two things: patronage AND financial institution, which is more about capatilism though than anything else, which in turn is a US trait. so yeah okay its the same thing to that extent.... Although forcing culture on a culture not receptive to that culture (ie, money spinning is winning therefore worth compromising for the many) is thereby the non the less accepted business by places like France and the worldover for capatilism that pushes all the buttons and turns keys (apparently!)



Quote:
you've been raised on grandeur holding out with subsidies and government feel good propaganda against the realities of the world.

How does it feel good ? Did anyone think to ask how crap it feels ? lol. With respect, who are you addressing here anyway?



I may have, or I may not have a point in asking what may seem satire but either way satire (whether we like it or not or find it helpful or not) will always rise to the occasion whatever
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#20 Old 11-01-2007, 07:19 AM
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empirical (this I used, as I don't know especially any other words btw, so go here if you need help like I did with other useful contrary or similar words, I looked it up purely as its a commonly used word that often helps invite meaning & meaning credential and general assertion.... The understandings of which are a thing already reasonably aware in most people, when thinking in terms of how they will debate and words which garner thought etc, such as the generally well known "empirical" word)
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#21 Old 11-01-2007, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indian Summer View Post

I don't advocate baseless bashing, so if that's what you mean by "anti-american attitude", I agree that that would be bad.



On the other hand, I think a lot of people outside of the USA (myself included) were a little disconcerted to see the US Americans elect the Bush clan twice. Now, one can forgive someone for messing up once in a while, but two times in a row is a little much. IMO the policies of the Bush administration have been detrimental to the USA's reputation and relations with other countries.



ETA: I understand of course that a majority of US Americans on VB never voted for the Bush-ites.



Sadly, our electoral system often results more in voting AGAINST someone rather than voting for the other guy. We have been doing alot of the "lesser of the evils" lately.
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#22 Old 11-01-2007, 07:52 AM
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I've definitely seen an increase in it and it's getting really tiresome. It's definitely changed how I view several of the members of VB for the worse also.
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#23 Old 11-01-2007, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indian Summer View Post

I don't advocate baseless bashing, so if that's what you mean by "anti-american attitude", I agree that that would be bad.



Baseless bashing I don't agree with but a bit of lighthearted teasing for fun is ok by me.



Quote:
On the other hand, I think a lot of people outside of the USA (myself included) were a little disconcerted to see the US Americans elect the Bush clan twice. Now, one can forgive someone for messing up once in a while, but two times in a row is a little much. IMO the policies of the Bush administration have been detrimental to the USA's reputation and relations with other countries.



Relations were already on shaky ground but that just tipped it over the edge for a lot of people I think.
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#24 Old 11-01-2007, 09:22 AM
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You guys do realize that millions of americans didn't vote for bush, right? It's not like we're some tiny minority.



And, basing your opinion of all americans on how a segment of the population voted in a presidential election is short-sighted, to say the least.



To lump all 300+ million americans into one group is a bit ignorant of the diversity in this country, not to mention ridiculous.
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#25 Old 11-01-2007, 09:35 AM
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You guys do realize that millions of americans didn't vote for bush, right?

Yes, of course. (And hence my "ETA".)

I no longer post here after VB was sold in 2012. (See my profile page for details.)
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#26 Old 11-01-2007, 09:54 AM
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Sorry I should have said "you guys except indian summer do realize..."



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#27 Old 11-01-2007, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by otomik View Post

most the arguments are not so much american policy but the "empire of the mind" america that is a flattening world culture and economy.



If the US continues the war in Iraq for much longer and starts one up with Iran too, eventually it's economy might not be looking so rosy.

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#28 Old 11-01-2007, 10:28 AM
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oh the schadenfreude is overwhelming
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#29 Old 11-01-2007, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Jinga View Post

I didn't see an option for that on the ballot.





Then you haven't looked.
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#30 Old 11-01-2007, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indian Summer View Post




ETA: I understand of course that a majority of US Americans on VB never voted for the Bush-ites.



Voting for Bush is only a part of the problem. Politics begin at a local level and the local level is the better place to address larger issues.
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