WTF is up with the Anti-American attitude lately? - Page 2 - VeggieBoards
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#31 Old 11-01-2007, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by OregonAmy View Post

oh the schadenfreude is overwhelming



Is that directed at me? Cause I'm not gloating about that.



It will affect Australia to a certain extent if the US economy goes arse up.

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#32 Old 11-01-2007, 11:02 AM
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I think the premise of the thread is bogus.



Criticism of the the government of the USA's policies is not 'anti-American', it is being anti the policies of the present regime in power. People often seem to misunderstand that. My own criticisms of the policies of the American government are based upon it failing to live up to the ideals to which the nation has aspired. I believe the present administration in Washington and most of their supporters are anti the checks and balances that have kept the government from becoming oppressive and are anti the freedoms guaranteed under the Constitution. Many of the things that have been done in the name of fighting terrorism have been antithetical to the freedoms that Americans have enjoyed for most of the country's existence.
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#33 Old 11-01-2007, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Savannah View Post

I think the premise of the thread is bogus.



Um, maybe you should be quiet unless you know what caused the thread to be created.



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Criticism of the the government of the USA's policies is not 'anti-American', it is being anti the policies of the present regime in power. People often seem to misunderstand that. My own criticisms of the policies of the American government are based upon it failing to live up to the ideals to which the nation has aspired. I believe the present administration in Washington and most of their supporters are anti the checks and balances that have kept the government from becoming oppressive and are anti the freedoms guaranteed under the Constitution. Many of the things that have been done in the name of fighting terrorism have been antithetical to the freedoms that Americans have enjoyed for most of the country's existence.



Nice rant. Too bad it has **** all to do with what caused someone to start this thread.
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#34 Old 11-01-2007, 11:26 AM
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I'm not anti-American. I'm just anti-Patriotism. The United States isn't any better than any other country. Patriotism is just a form of xenophobia.
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#35 Old 11-01-2007, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Tame View Post

Um, maybe you should be quiet unless you know what caused the thread to be created.







Nice rant. Too bad it has **** all to do with what caused someone to start this thread.



maybe i dont give a rat's butt whether you think i should be quiet.
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#36 Old 11-01-2007, 11:34 AM
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lol, "rat-spit" is also good
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#37 Old 11-01-2007, 11:36 AM
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maybe i dont give a rat's butt whether you think i should be quiet.



No skin off my nuts. You are the one who looks bad for yammering about something that has nothing to do with why this thread was started.
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#38 Old 11-01-2007, 11:40 AM
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At times there seems to be Anti American bashing coming from the Americans them selfs on the board .
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#39 Old 11-01-2007, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Indian Summer View Post

I don't advocate baseless bashing, so if that's what you mean by "anti-american attitude", I agree that that would be bad.



On the other hand, I think a lot of people outside of the USA (myself included) were a little disconcerted to see the US Americans elect the Bush clan twice. Now, one can forgive someone for messing up once in a while, but two times in a row is a little much. IMO the policies of the Bush administration have been detrimental to the USA's reputation and relations with other countries.



Just to be clear, if I disagree with the elected leadership of another nation, then my attacks on the people of that nation would not be "baseless bashing"? I just want to make sure I have this straight.
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#40 Old 11-01-2007, 11:54 AM
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In my experience, most people that stereotype and bash the USA have never even been here.
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#41 Old 11-01-2007, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by bluesand View Post

At times there seems to be Anti American bashing coming from the Americans them selfs on the board .



Indeed. I think I see more americans complaining about the US (be it the govt. or otherwise) than people across the pond. I suspect this may be because if anyone does say anything they get a barrage of "Do you live here?! Where's better then??" so it's easier to just sit back, drink your Earl Grey and feel superior for no reason other than we have Marmite.
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#42 Old 11-01-2007, 12:04 PM
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I have a problem when I am labeled because of the country I am from, and that is what I think this thread is about. Like, "Americans don't understand this kind of humor" or "Americans have this kind of attitude" etc. I don't like to be told how I think or feel. I know that it often comes with the tag "present company excluded, of course" or something akin to that, but that really doesn't mean a thing, it's like saying "I was just joking," so that the person you are insulting/pigeonholing "can't" get mad.



As far as bashing US politics, that is reasonable and understandable. I do to. I don't like living in a country with such backwards policies and warmongering leaders.



I often get fed up with people in this country (I probably would anywhere, but I am here), but I don't think they are worse than people, on average, anywhere. The majority of people do not think for themselves, and the fact that in some places it seems like more people think for themselves, it means that they are being encouraged to think for themselves, which in the end is just doing what they are told if they do think for themselves. Maybe that doesn't make sense, it is hard to put this in writing. It is like Otomiks example of the McDonalds in France. It is not Americas fault that there is a McDonalds in France, in fact you could say that Americans are the first victims of the trends that start here.



People are just animals.
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#43 Old 11-01-2007, 12:05 PM
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We have marmite. I like marmite.
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#44 Old 11-01-2007, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Tame View Post

No skin off my nuts. You are the one who looks bad for yammering about something that has nothing to do with why this thread was started.



the OP's initial post was ambiguous (and reading back over the thread someone else pointed that out too) and I took it to mean something that he perhaps did not mean to state...but your way of pointing out that I misunderstood him (saying i should be quiet), is an asinine comment.
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#45 Old 11-01-2007, 12:36 PM
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"Americans don't understand this kind of humor"



People from the u.s often dont seem to grasp the humour that comes from other parts of the world. You can tell by some of the responses that they dont. Ive got friends in america that took a while to really understand when I was being serious and when i was just being an idiot.







Sometimes there are stereotypes about people from the u.s used on vb, and some anti american sentiment will be come up now and then too, but Ive also seen anti british and anti australian sentiment too along with the use of obvious stereotypes. Just the other day someone was going on about "british teeth" in their post.
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#46 Old 11-01-2007, 12:52 PM
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>>I find fault in the people of the U.S. for failing to elect a moral government, a government that would faithfully address the unjust idea that corporations may lawfully exert undue influence over policies in the name of profits and at the expense of others around the world.>>



You over-estimate vastly the degree of influence citizens have in mass-democratic regimes. We are different from our rulers.

...

A few points:

1. I think that you and others might be equivocating citizens, particular geographical locations, and the states that claim rule over them.

2. Criticism of a particular entity does not entail that there currently exist something better. I can criticize America but also remain critical of all other states.

3. I find it a bit odd that people would denounce the US at this point out of fear of a single world superpower. Over the past 70-odd years, the contemporary US is currently particularly weak.



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#47 Old 11-01-2007, 01:49 PM
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I noticed that there were more negative remarks made towards the US recently. I also noticed that a lot of people are suddenly very defensive about the US (probably as a direct consequence of these 'attacks').

It seems to me that both effects are the cause of each other; when people are negative about the US, others react very strongly to defend the US, causing the negative people to continue their rants. And the other way around, when people are vehemently defending the US, other people react by making negative remarks about the US, causing the first people to be even more defensive.



Vicious circle and all. I personally find all of this to be of very little interest, myself.
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#48 Old 11-01-2007, 02:08 PM
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I can personally vouch that my viciousness against the US is a constant, there whether others defend the nation or not.



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#49 Old 11-01-2007, 02:14 PM
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Well, speaking for myself, my opinion may not change, but the way I react on the board might, if my eyes start rolling enough because of an overdose of ignorent remarks I don't believe people have gotten actually more anti or pro american, it's just these discussions that brings it out in people.
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#50 Old 11-01-2007, 02:27 PM
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Interesting hypothesis, and quite plausible at that.



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#51 Old 11-01-2007, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Shantih View Post

Indeed. I think I see more americans complaining about the US (be it the govt. or otherwise) than people across the pond. I suspect this may be because if anyone does say anything they get a barrage of "Do you live here?! Where's better then??" so it's easier to just sit back, drink your Earl Grey and feel superior for no reason other than we have Marmite.



Quote:
Originally Posted by kazyeeqen View Post

We have marmite. I like marmite.



We have Marmite too! Thank you very much. I'm the gourmet manager at a World Market and we have it. We are no longer allowed to carry Vegemite though. Some FDA regulations. No clue what that is about.



We also have Earl Grey. And I just recently got some Peppermint Chocolate Spice tea in too. It's quite good.



Back on topic.

I've noticed quite a bit of Anti-U.S. feelings lately. I've put a bit of that out myself as a citizen of this country. If I lived in any other country I'm sure I would feel the same. Maybe even more passionately than I do now.



We have our priorities and values back-asswards. Of course there are anti-US feelings and comments. BY OUR OWN CITIZENS! If we want to change the way the rest of the world views our country perhaps we should change the way we behave and ensure that our government and policies are changed.



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#52 Old 11-01-2007, 03:25 PM
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I think part of it may come from the 'holier than thou' attitude* that some Americans have. It seems to be part of the American culture to assume that the USA is the best country in the world (from various standpoints) and that no other countries really matter. I think after a while everyone from other countries gets tired of having someone else give the "we're better than you attitude" all the time. To assume that the American way is better simply because it is the American way is faulty logic (and I've seen it used here on the board in a subtle way - not pointing any fingers). But to be honest, I don't think it's done to intentionally put down other people. I just think it's really ingrained into the culture. And this isn't an attack on anyone in particular, or an attempt to pigeon-hole anyone- just an observation.



*My boyfriend is an American and I have called him on just that attitude more than a few times. He hasn't done it much as of late, however
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#53 Old 11-01-2007, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Gnome Chomsky View Post

>>I find fault in the people of the U.S. for failing to elect a moral government, a government that would faithfully address the unjust idea that corporations may lawfully exert undue influence over policies in the name of profits and at the expense of others around the world.>>



You over-estimate vastly the degree of influence citizens have in mass-democratic regimes. We are different from our rulers.

...



ebola



We don't have to be different from our rulers. The American population became complacent politically and this complacency has led to thoughts of 1) there is no difference in American political parties 2) there is no way to affect change, and 3) we are different from our leaders.



Politics are local and if we begin there, we can affect change.
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#54 Old 11-01-2007, 03:37 PM
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We have our priorities and values back-asswards.



We? You got a mouse in your pocket or something?

My priorities are just fine, thankyouverymuch.





[quoteIf we want to change the way the rest of the world views our country perhaps we should change the way we behave and ensure that our government and policies are changed.



[/QUOTE]

What does that even mean?

We have to conform to the rest of the world? No thanks.
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#55 Old 11-01-2007, 03:38 PM
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I think part of it may come from the 'holier than thou' attitude* that some Americans have. It seems to be part of the American culture to assume that the USA is the best country in the world (from various standpoints) and that no other countries really matter. I think after a while everyone from other countries gets tired of having someone else give the "we're better than you attitude" all the time. To assume that the American way is better simply because it is the American way is faulty logic (and I've seen it used here on the board in a subtle way - not pointing any fingers). But to be honest, I don't think it's done to intentionally put down other people. I just think it's really ingrained into the culture. And this isn't an attack on anyone in particular, or an attempt to pigeon-hole anyone- just an observation.



*My boyfriend is an American and I have called him on just that attitude more than a few times. He hasn't done it much as of late, however





But is is okay for other nations to say they are superior to us because of "X?

No thanks.
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#56 Old 11-01-2007, 03:48 PM
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But is is okay for other nations to say they are superior to us because of "X?

No thanks.



I don't think it's ok for other nations (or rather people in those nations) to say they are superior to others. It's one thing to say "country X has a better -* than country Y, and this is why"...





*Eg; government, health care system, highway system, firefighting capacity, etc etc
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#57 Old 11-01-2007, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Tame View Post

Just to be clear, if I disagree with the elected leadership of another nation, then my attacks on the people of that nation would not be "baseless bashing"? I just want to make sure I have this straight.

Good try, but no - wrong. If you were criticising those individuals who voted for and supported said leadership, and if the criticism had at least some elements of well-foundedness / legitimacy, then that would not be baseless bashing.

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#58 Old 11-01-2007, 04:48 PM
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>>We don't have to be different from our rulers. The American population became complacent politically and this complacency has led to thoughts of 1) there is no difference in American political parties 2) there is no way to affect change, and 3) we are different from our leaders.>>



This is not complacency. This is a soberly accurate assessment of party politics. The discrepancies in policy prescriptions between the two parties really are quite minor. Our ability to change the polity, particularly through voting alone, is quite minor. We are also estranged from our rulers. They unsurprisingly have greater allegiance to sources of funding rather than their direct constituency.



>>

Politics are local and if we begin there, we can affect change.>>



Yes, perhaps changes in local "representatives" could culminate in changes in national rule. These changes will be slow and feeble, and the federal government is still the primary locus of domination.



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#59 Old 11-01-2007, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Tame View Post

We? You got a mouse in your pocket or something?

My priorities are just fine, thankyouverymuch.



It's a hamster, thank you. I'm glad your priorities are in good standing.



Quote:
If we want to change the way the rest of the world views our country perhaps we should change the way we behave and ensure that our government and policies are changed.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Tame View Post

What does that even mean?

We have to conform to the rest of the world? No thanks.



I have no interest in conforming the world. As a matter of fact I think we should stop trying to do so. I think perhaps we as US citizens (as a whole, not aiming this at just you Tame since your values and priorities are fine.) should get our heads out of our asses. We sit here watching our mind numbing t.v., stuffing our faces with our BigMacs while smoking our Marlboro Ultra Lights instead of trying to do something about the state of the world.



There are so many people in our nation who give less than a rats ass about anything else in the world. Millions of people dying of A.I.D.S. in Africa? Who cares? They're over there and it's their fault anyway. Kids being exploited and abused in the sex trade in our own country and abroad? Why should I care? Little Johnny is asleep upstairs.



We don't care enough about stopping our governments abuse of other countries and the environment. We don't care enough about stopping large corporations rape of the environment. We just don't care. It's sad and it's no wonder people in other countries tend to look down on our nation.



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#60 Old 11-01-2007, 05:05 PM
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Yeah, but what are ya gonna do.
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