Originally Posted by Kraut
Natural emissions are closed-looped/balanced only for the moment in time that you measure them.
No natural emissions are almost always a closed-loop. Atmospheric levels of CO2 can increase or decrease over long periods of time. For instance if due to Milankovitch cycles the earth gets much warmer and the ocean temperatures will rise so the ocean will release massive amounts of CO2. A 14 degree increase in salt water leaves it with half the gas soluability. Similarly if due to Milankovitch cycles the earth gets much colder than the ocean temperatures will drop and the ocean will absorb massive amounts of CO2. Of course there are also changes in vegetation land coverage etc.
Most GW proponents focus on CO2 levels over the last several hundred thousand years because that data best fits their models.
Or perhaps because the evidence is much, much stronger.
Unfortunately, CO2 levels are quite low compared to levels from the past 600 million years & there is no reason to believe that the climate *naturally* return to these much higher CO2 levels
No reason? There are lots of reasons to believe that the "natural" temperature for the earth at present is different from the "natural" temperature of the earth in the distant past. For starters it has only been a couple million years since Antarctica moved to the bottom of world changing ocean currents in the process and storing massive amounts of fresh water. Millions of years ago all of the continents were one big continent near the equator, we didn't have icecaps like we do today. Tectonic plates were all violently pressing against each other forming the large mountain ranges. There are many reasons.
regardless of how much pain and suffering humans go through trying to control the process. Humans “fixing” the climate is like a flea claiming responsibility for the activities of the dog.
That is total baloney. We have caused the atmospheric CO2 levels to go up. 99%+ climate scientists agree.
The real issue is how much pain & suffering the GW crowd wants to inflict on the people to achieve their GW agenda/goals. While most everyone wants to do something to reduce CO2 levels, setting the bar too high creates more GW opponents and makes them fight harder. Achieving the Koyoto levels has proven impossible even for the counties willing to sign on.
Kyoto targets were not impossible to achieve. I am reminded of the Simpsons episode where Ned Flanders is a child and his hippie parents take him to a psychiatrist because his is out of control. The father says: "Man, we have tried nothing, and we are all out of ideas." You can't say something was impossible when you didn't try.
Short of a massive global depression/war, you can only reduce the growth rate for energy use, not reduce total energy consumption.
There is so much emissions-free energy it is ridiculous.
You can make energy CO2 cleaner but the quickest & most cost effective solution to CO2 clean energy is nuclear power which the environmentalists have effectively stopped (at least in the USA).
I don't know if nuclear energy is the quickest or most cost effective solution. Neither appears to be the case in Canada, anyways. But I have long argued that if Global Warming is a serious as environmentalists and scientists say that it is then everything has to be on the table. That includes Nuclear power and that includes GMO food (something that all environmentalists and vegetarians seem to be deadset against - and I was too, but I have studied the issue pretty extensively and I believe that we are completely wrong. GMO foods could provide massive benefits for the environment, land use, CO2 emissions, world hunger etc. I encourage people to research the issue themselves).
What’s a world to do?
I honestly don't worry about it too much. Once R&D dedicates itself to creating more efficient and CO2 neutral technologies they will appear very fast. Far from the denier hysteria that reducing emissions will bankrupt the world, I think that in fifty years we will look back and laugh at such ludditte thinking. The change will not be painful, it will be mostly automatic. That's not to say that there will be no problems or that the world will be a utopia - it won't. But just as there have been extreme unfounded fears with every advance we have taken, the same exists today.