U.S separates illegal mother from legal son - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 08-20-2007, 02:37 AM
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Elvira Arellano was arrested while speaking to reporters outside Our Lady Queen of Angels Catholic Church.



The question presented as a result of this action is not one of law but of morals. Ms. Arellano is not a danger to this country. She is simply a Mexican citizen who came to the U.S. seeking a better life for herself and her son.



Another sad day for human rights in the U.S.
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#2 Old 08-20-2007, 07:43 AM
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No, it's a question of law. I can't think of a good reason why her son can't go back to Mexico with her.
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#3 Old 08-20-2007, 07:55 AM
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No, it's a question of law. I can't think of a good reason why her son can't go back to Mexico with her.



The question of law is settled. The question of morals is not.



Here's a reason her son might put forth for not wanting to return to Mexico: He would "choose" that he and his mother live in the U.S.



I suppose there is no reason he "can't" unless he's detained but since he's not, choose is a more appropriate word.
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#4 Old 08-20-2007, 08:06 AM
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I am sure he wants to stay here. And he can. But his mother can't, and she is a criminal, and the only reason she is here (and he is a citizen) is because of her criminal conduct.



So, the lad can choose. Stay here, or go with mommy. I don't see the moral issue. No one is separating mother and son. They are making that choice.



Personally, I think we should change the law so that only children of legal immigrants are citizens if they are born here.
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#5 Old 08-20-2007, 08:27 AM
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I see two moral issues. First is the issue of separating a mother from a legal resident of this country by deporting her. The law should reflect the family values espoused by politicians on both sides of the aisle to allow her to stay.



The second moral issue is simply one of allowing free movement of all people. I understand that we are a long way from that happening. Perhaps we're even moving in the opposite direction. Oh well. Its still an issue.
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#6 Old 08-20-2007, 08:29 AM
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I see two moral issues. First is the issue of separating a mother from a legal resident of this country by deporting her. The law should reflect the family values espoused by politicians on both sides of the aisle to allow her to stay.



The second moral issue is simply one of allowing free movement of all people. I understand that we are a long way from that happening. Perhaps we're even moving in the opposite direction. Oh well. Its still an issue.



I agree.
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#7 Old 08-20-2007, 08:33 AM
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I see two moral issues. First is the issue of separating a mother from a legal resident of this country by deporting her. The law should reflect the family values espoused by politicians on both sides of the aisle to allow her to stay.



They are choosing to be separated.



Quote:

The second moral issue is simply one of allowing free movement of all people. I understand that we are a long way from that happening. Perhaps we're even moving in the opposite direction. Oh well. Its still an issue.



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#8 Old 08-20-2007, 08:34 AM
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But the law shouldn't require that choice in this case.
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#9 Old 08-20-2007, 08:48 AM
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Why? She knowingly broke the law.
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#10 Old 08-20-2007, 09:09 AM
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I'm saying the law should be changed. Tame, are you working on no sleep today?
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#11 Old 08-20-2007, 09:31 AM
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The law is immoral. The law should be changed.

.
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#12 Old 08-20-2007, 10:11 AM
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So just because she whelped a pup on the other side of the border she gets to ignore the law?



The law is not immoral. It is not separating the family. They are chhosing to be separated.
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#13 Old 08-20-2007, 10:42 AM
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The immigration laws are immoral in my view not just on the issue of separating families but on many levels. It is estimated that there are 600,000 families in the U.S. facing the same outcome if la migra chooses to target them as they did Ms. Arrellano. They shouldn't have to choose.
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#14 Old 08-20-2007, 10:50 AM
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Why? They shouldn't suffer the consequences of being criminals?
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#15 Old 08-20-2007, 10:54 AM
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No, not for the crimes they committed. It shouldn't be a crime at all and therefore, there should be no consequences.



If it would help you get past the punishment thing, let's pardon them.
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#16 Old 08-20-2007, 11:00 AM
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But I think they should be punished, and that letting people just hop back and forth across borders is moronic.



I fail to see what is immoral about this law.
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#17 Old 08-20-2007, 11:06 AM
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I guess I've lived so close to Mexico for so long that I don't see it as a problem. To me, the border causes more problems than it prevents.
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#18 Old 08-20-2007, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tame View Post

Why? They shouldn't suffer the consequences of being criminals?



The law doesn't have to be moral, same as immorality is not always illegal. Technically she IS a criminal even though she broke the law to pursue a better life for her and her offspring, she probably had to choose between that or to have a miserable future. And there's also all kinds of crooks and *******s out there that commit the most horrible atrocities just because the law allows them to. I just saw a tv program about Africans that risk their lives to get to Europe, a very high percentage of them drown or die of dehydration, still they choose to keep trying.



Some people prefer to see the world in black or white, ignorance/stupidity/selfishness/close-mindness is bliss.
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#19 Old 08-20-2007, 01:24 PM
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Personally, I think we should change the law so that only children of legal immigrants are citizens if they are born here.



I agree.
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#20 Old 08-21-2007, 07:55 AM
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So just because she whelped a pup on the other side of the border she gets to ignore the law?



Are you kidding? She gave birth to a little baby, a child of God. A God who doesn't give a hoot about "boundaries."



People like you would punish an innocent baby to keep the letter of the law.
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#21 Old 08-21-2007, 11:48 AM
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Are you kidding? She gave birth to a little baby, a child of God. A God who doesn't give a hoot about "boundaries."



People like you would punish an innocent baby to keep the letter of the law.

the united states is punishing all the world's babies that are not born in it's borders? this is like elian gonzalez crap.



lets have a heart and abduct all the babies in the world.

* This post may contain pork, beef and fingers of undocumented workers. This post was manufactured in a facility that processes peanuts.
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#22 Old 08-21-2007, 03:43 PM
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I'm with Tame on this one.



Plenty of people go through the hassle of coming here legally, she broke the law and should go back to Mexico. She's free to take her son with her. Nobody's tearing families apart here, it's her choice, just like she chose to come here illegally and go into hiding, where she wasn't paying taxes, or otherwise contributing to the county in a positive way.
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#23 Old 08-21-2007, 04:20 PM
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the reality is that it is almost impossible for most people to come to the USA from Mexico legally.



the USA has been beckoning those people across the border with work oppotunities for years. the undocumented have been the main agricultural workforce in the border states for many years. governments and employers knew damn well they were employing people that were not citizens but wanted their cheap labor much more than immigration enforcement. now, when their numbers have made them apparent to a previously oblivious American public, there are cries to send them back and stem the tide. the humane thing is to figure out a way to get those already here into the citizenship track and to make it possible for those in Mexico to come here legally to work and possibly attain citizenship too. people that think that 12 million are gonna be deported are living in a dream world.
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#24 Old 08-21-2007, 05:18 PM
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I agree with Tame. It's irrelevant whether or not you agree with the law, when you break the law there are consequences.



Whether or not the law should be changed is a separate issue IMO.

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#25 Old 08-23-2007, 12:04 AM
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Fine companies that hire illegal immigrants. Jail CEOs. If they can't get work, why would they come?



Having a cheap workforce in the US does not help the average American worker, it hurts them.
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#26 Old 08-23-2007, 01:02 AM
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She broke two laws, according to the article; "She was arrested in 2002 at O'Hare and convicted of working under a false Social Security number."



Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver View Post

Are you kidding? She gave birth to a little baby, a child of God. A God who doesn't give a hoot about "boundaries."



So your god fathered the child and then just sat back while all this happened?
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#27 Old 08-23-2007, 02:41 AM
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What is is with this "she broke two laws" crap? And with the "when you break the law there are consequences" crap? And with the "Fine companies that hire illegal immigrants. Jail CEOs." crap? And with the "she is a criminal" crap" ?



This form a line ... yes sir, yes sir display of submissive group think is scary as hell. Does no one question the sanity and justice contained within a set of laws? Do people simply consent to a mandate from a goverment because it's from a government? Many great people have been made criminals by people in power. I'm glad they didn't follow so blindly along.
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#28 Old 08-23-2007, 02:57 AM
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Originally Posted by pkk View Post

What is is with this "she broke two laws" crap? And with the "when you break the law there are consequences" crap?





so if laws don't matter to you can I come steal your car and murder your family and you'll be happy with it?



- I'm using car as an example, its highly possible that you don't have a car
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#29 Old 08-23-2007, 03:02 AM
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so if laws don't matter to you can I come steal your car and murder your family and you'll be happy with it?



- I'm using car as an example, its highly possible that you don't have a car



Elvira Arrellano didn't kill anyone.
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#30 Old 08-23-2007, 03:18 AM
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Elvira Arrellano didn't kill anyone.



My father (who was a legal immigrant from South Africa by the way) never killed anyone yet he stole over half a million pounds, raped his daughter, beat up his wife and kids. He didn't end up in jail because it "wouldn't serve the public interest" (More like the country judge at that time was the person who gave my father his first job in Shropshire and so there would have been a public outcry.)



She broke the law. Period. Yes the law may not be fair, in my case it wasn't and still isn't (he's still working in legal services) but it's there for a reason and needs to be obeyed.
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