Poll should the US abolish the 2nd amendment? - VeggieBoards
View Poll Results: should the US abolish the 2nd amendment?
yes 0 0%
no 0 0%
Voters: 0. You may not vote on this poll

Forum Jump: 
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
#1 Old 04-05-2007, 09:35 PM
Veggie Regular
 
havocjohn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 7,669
and give up our right to bear arms?



1) yes



2) no
havocjohn is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 Old 04-05-2007, 09:42 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Skylark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 15,684
No, the government has no business telling me not to wear T-shirts and tank tops.




Q: How many poets does it take to change a light bulb? A: 1001...one to change the bulb, 1000 to say it's already been done.
Skylark is offline  
#3 Old 04-05-2007, 10:17 PM
Veggie Regular
 
sybaritik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,063
sybaritik is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#4 Old 04-06-2007, 01:24 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Sevenseas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 25,067
I really couldn't care less. It's funny to me how some people seem to think having a gun is some kind of a basic human right. Oh the humanity.

"and I stand

upon a mountain

made of weak and useless men"

Sevenseas is offline  
#5 Old 04-06-2007, 01:32 AM
Veggie Regular
 
HandcuffedAngel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,691
I'm in the middle about this amendment.



Protection is one thing, but a lot of times guns that are bought for protection are used in homicides. They also often fall into the wrong hands, such as the hands of a child, and the child shoots his/her friend on accident.



Guns are dangerous things. I think people could find better, less lethal ways to protect themselves. However, in a society where everyone else has a gun then I guess a gun for protection makes the most sense.



I guess I'll say I'm for the abolishment of this. I think we'd be better off without guns. I just never really got why it's considered a "right" to have something made for killing.
HandcuffedAngel is offline  
#6 Old 04-06-2007, 02:37 AM
Veggie Regular
 
thebelovedtree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,477
I go shooting regularly, and am saving up for my own hand gun, hand gun classes, and concealed carry classes. Taking guns away from legal owners doesn't keep criminals from having them, and personally, if someone breaks into my house with a gun I want something a little better than mace on my side and I want to know how to use it. There are many guns that are illegal in various states and friends in law enforcement has assured me that making them illegal doesn't keep criminals from having them, or even make them that difficult to obtain. Considering the number of guns already in this country one would be hard pressed to keep them from criminals if the second amendment were abolished. Since Britain outlawed guns their crime rate has gone way up, because now criminals know their victims aren't armed.



I have always preferred to take care of myself, when possible, and my personal safety is something that I'd rather take more into my own hands, now that I'm of legal age to own a gun.
thebelovedtree is offline  
#7 Old 04-06-2007, 03:31 AM
Veggie Regular
 
otomik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: columbus, ohio
Posts: 4,248
Quote:
Originally Posted by skylark View Post

No, the government has no business telling me not to wear T-shirts and tank tops.




Ron Burgundy: The only way to bag a classy lady is to give her two tickets to the gun show... [kisses his biceps] and see if she likes the goods.

* This post may contain pork, beef and fingers of undocumented workers. This post was manufactured in a facility that processes peanuts.
otomik is offline  
#8 Old 04-06-2007, 05:11 AM
Newbie
 
GhostUser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by HandcuffedAngel View Post

I'm in the middle about this amendment.



Protection is one thing, but a lot of times guns that are bought for protection are used in homicides. They also often fall into the wrong hands, such as the hands of a child, and the child shoots his/her friend on accident.



Guns are dangerous things. I think people could find better, less lethal ways to protect themselves. However, in a society where everyone else has a gun then I guess a gun for protection makes the most sense.



I guess I'll say I'm for the abolishment of this. I think we'd be better off without guns. I just never really got why it's considered a "right" to have something made for killing.



Guns are inanimate objects and are not dangerous at all. More people die from motor vehicle accidents then guns. Should we ban cars? Heart disease and cancer at the top of the list. Why not make a poor diet illegal? Force people to exercise?



Saying guns cause crime is like saying your keyboard cuases mipselled wrods, or water causes people to drown, or matches cause arson. or needles cause drug abuse, or alcohal causes alcohalism, or cars cause teen pregnancy, etc etc.



We have a "right" to defend ourselves. Even from our own Government. In every rise of a dictator, the first thing to go is the peoples rights to bear arms. Why do you think that is?



Have you ever been in any type of natural or man made disaster? Try visiting an area during a blizzard, hurricane, wildland fire, flood, etc. Maybe, if you need protection, you will be lucky enough to have one of those crazy, gun tot'n civilians keep you from being murdered for the loose change in your pocket.
GhostUser is offline  
#9 Old 04-06-2007, 05:16 AM
Kiz
Veggie Regular
 
Kiz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,132
I've always thought it a bit odd how some Americans see carrying guns as some sort of basic human right.

Love the post? Why not buy the T-shirt!
http://www.kiz-shop.de/index.php?page=categorie&cat=8
http://www.kiz-shop.de/index.php?page=product&info=94
Kiz is offline  
#10 Old 04-06-2007, 05:18 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Sevenseas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 25,067
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiz View Post

I've always thought it a bit odd how some Americans see carrying guns as some sort of basic human right.

How could you think so? That seems like a very weird perception to me.

"and I stand

upon a mountain

made of weak and useless men"

Sevenseas is offline  
#11 Old 04-06-2007, 05:22 AM
Newbie
 
GhostUser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiz View Post

I've always thought it a bit odd how some Americans see carrying guns as some sort of basic human right.



You don't feel that self defense is a basic human right?
GhostUser is offline  
#12 Old 04-06-2007, 05:23 AM
Newbie
 
GhostUser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 0
A big hell no to the op. I wouldn't feel safe in my hood without it.
GhostUser is offline  
#13 Old 04-06-2007, 05:23 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Sevenseas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 25,067
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducati View Post

You don't feel that self defense is a basic human right?

Having a gun is a basic human right if you equate pretending to be Dirty Harry to self-defense.

"and I stand

upon a mountain

made of weak and useless men"

Sevenseas is offline  
#14 Old 04-06-2007, 05:27 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Sevenseas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 25,067
I don't have a gun (and I probably couldn't get one) and yet I've never thought that my right to self-defence has been compromised one bit. If someone attacks me, I can cause violence to him/her and probably not be charged of anything. In other words, seems like I have the right to defend myself.

"and I stand

upon a mountain

made of weak and useless men"

Sevenseas is offline  
#15 Old 04-06-2007, 05:40 AM
Newbie
 
GhostUser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 0
I don't own a gun either and hate the idea that they even exist but I do support other's rights to own them. Freedom shouldn't be limited by my objections or anyone elses.



That said, people who think they can repel govt. oppression with a couple of shotguns and a semi-automatic rifle are delusional.
GhostUser is offline  
#16 Old 04-06-2007, 05:46 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Sevenseas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 25,067
Quote:
Originally Posted by pkk View Post

That said, people who think they can repel govt. oppression with a couple of shotguns and a semi-automatic rifle are delusional.

Haven't you seen Die Hard? The individual's abilities are easy to underestimate, IMO.

"and I stand

upon a mountain

made of weak and useless men"

Sevenseas is offline  
#17 Old 04-06-2007, 05:53 AM
Kiz
Veggie Regular
 
Kiz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducati View Post

You don't feel that self defense is a basic human right?



Well, there's just a little bit of a difference between self defence and owning a gun, don't you think? Just a tiny bit maybe?



If you think your government should permit gun-ownership, that's one thing, it's another to think gun owning is some basic human right. There's a bit of a jump there. Most pro-gun Americans I've talked to about it (whether I agree with their point of view or not) argue from the "constitutional rights" point of view. A very few have argued from a human rights point of view. I just find those very few to be rather weird is all.

Love the post? Why not buy the T-shirt!
http://www.kiz-shop.de/index.php?page=categorie&cat=8
http://www.kiz-shop.de/index.php?page=product&info=94
Kiz is offline  
#18 Old 04-06-2007, 06:03 AM
Newbie
 
GhostUser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiz View Post

Well, there's just a little bit of a difference between self defence and owning a gun, don't you think? Just a tiny bit maybe?



If you think your government should permit gun-ownership, that's one thing, it's another to think gun owning is some basic human right. There's a bit of a jump there. Most pro-gun Americans I've talked to about it (whether I agree with their point of view or not) argue from the "constitutional rights" point of view. A very few have argued from a human rights point of view. I just find those very few to be rather weird is all.



Freedom and the right to life are fundamental human rights.



Limiting someone elses to suit your taste is oppression.
GhostUser is offline  
#19 Old 04-06-2007, 06:05 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Sevenseas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 25,067
Quote:
Originally Posted by pkk View Post


Limiting someone elses to suit your taste is oppression.

How does a gun ban limit the right to life?



I also think that to argue against a ban on the ground that it limits freedom is pretty trivial, as all bans or prohibitions limit freedom.

"and I stand

upon a mountain

made of weak and useless men"

Sevenseas is offline  
#20 Old 04-06-2007, 06:24 AM
Newbie
 
GhostUser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 0
A gun ban doesn't limit the right to life.



Kiz mentioned human rights as opposed to constitutional rights and I was referring to that.



A ban on guns would be trivial to me in terms of my use of them but what's trivial to me might not be to someone else.
GhostUser is offline  
#21 Old 04-06-2007, 06:43 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Sevenseas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 25,067
Ok, thanks for clarifying.



I wasn't saying that the gun issue itself is necessarily trivial but that the argument "it restricts freedom" is not very good when discussing a ban.

"and I stand

upon a mountain

made of weak and useless men"

Sevenseas is offline  
#22 Old 04-06-2007, 06:50 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Wolfie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,850
Quote:
Originally Posted by havocjohn View Post

and give up our right to bear arms?



1) yes



2) no



No.
Wolfie is offline  
#23 Old 04-06-2007, 06:53 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Elena99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,473
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiz View Post

Well, there's just a little bit of a difference between self defence and owning a gun, don't you think? Just a tiny bit maybe?



If you think your government should permit gun-ownership, that's one thing, it's another to think gun owning is some basic human right. There's a bit of a jump there. Most pro-gun Americans I've talked to about it (whether I agree with their point of view or not) argue from the "constitutional rights" point of view. A very few have argued from a human rights point of view. I just find those very few to be rather weird is all.



I have to agree with Kiz, it does seem weird. In Canada, we don't have the right to bear arms, but that doesn't mean that people can't have guns under certain situations, or that people are left defenseless. It wouldn't seem weird to Americans, most of them anyway, because they grew up with that knowledge.
Elena99 is offline  
#24 Old 04-06-2007, 06:56 AM
Veggie Regular
 
isowish's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7,858
It doesn't matter to me because I'm far away, but I just wanted to agree with others who have said that they live in a country where they don't have the "right to bear arms" (I'm not sure that I'm allowed pepper spray actually, which is one thing I've heard Americans talk about a lot, I've never seen it here or known anyone to have it) and don't feel that the government is making them defenceless. *shrug*



On the other hand, I live in a relatively safe suburb and don't spend much time outside in the city at night alone. I guess I'm not entering into this debate
isowish is offline  
#25 Old 04-06-2007, 08:08 AM
Veggie Regular
 
TrailMix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 237
You can do a lot to control gun abuse in the U.S. without affecting the 2nd Amendment. I'd rather just leave the Bill of Rights alone.
TrailMix is offline  
#26 Old 04-06-2007, 10:20 AM
Newbie
 
GhostUser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 0
SKYLARKBeing a Radio DJ means being an investigative reporterconsequently I am on a must see basis..LOL
GhostUser is offline  
#27 Old 04-06-2007, 10:49 AM
Newbie
 
GhostUser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiz View Post

Well, there's just a little bit of a difference between self defence and owning a gun, don't you think? Just a tiny bit maybe?



If you think your government should permit gun-ownership, that's one thing, it's another to think gun owning is some basic human right. There's a bit of a jump there. Most pro-gun Americans I've talked to about it (whether I agree with their point of view or not) argue from the "constitutional rights" point of view. A very few have argued from a human rights point of view. I just find those very few to be rather weird is all.



Do you think criminals should have guns? We should have a law thans bans criminals from having guns! Or that people are criminals if they use guns in a crime. Oh wait, we already have those laws, and they work so well.



I don't think owning a gun a a basic human right, I feel that all law abidinng citizens, of age, who have undergone the proper training should be allowed to carry guns.



If you are in a restaurant and some gunman starts shooting everyone in sight and you are next, aren't you hoping someone in the room has a gun and is going to shoot him?



When you make it criminal to carry a gun, then only criminals will carry guns.
GhostUser is offline  
#28 Old 04-06-2007, 11:06 AM
Red
Veggie Regular
 
Red's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,765
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevenseas View Post

How does a gun ban limit the right to life?



I also think that to argue against a ban on the ground that it limits freedom is pretty trivial, as all bans or prohibitions limit freedom.



In that case, why not up the ante and ban free speech, freedom of religion and freedom of association while you're at it?



Those bans would all serve to give more social control (obviously a good thing), and none of them would limit a persons "right to life", either.
Red is offline  
#29 Old 04-06-2007, 11:08 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Treehugger267's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,795
The criminals here have guns. I doubt we would be able to defend ourselves against them with a stick. If they were banned at this point, it would be the law abiding people that would have theirs revoked. I highly doubt the criminals have theirs registered.



All of this uprising against the government stuff that is being talked about is really kind of frightening. I doubt the shot gun we have would do much against our own army.
Treehugger267 is offline  
#30 Old 04-06-2007, 12:12 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Skylark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 15,684
Quote:
Originally Posted by TONYSTAROLDIES View Post

SKYLARKBeing a Radio DJ means being an investigative reporterconsequently I am on a must see basis..LOL



What in the heck?



Oh, now I get it. I should probably tell you I recently permed my hair into a massive 'fro, and I am now hideously unattractive by your standards.

Q: How many poets does it take to change a light bulb? A: 1001...one to change the bulb, 1000 to say it's already been done.
Skylark is offline  
Closed Thread

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the VeggieBoards forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in


Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off