Poll should the US abolish the 2nd amendment? - Page 3 - VeggieBoards
View Poll Results: should the US abolish the 2nd amendment?
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#61 Old 04-06-2007, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otomik View Post

The crazed gunman shot you in the head either before you called the police or after while the police were en route. Game Over



He could also shoot the hero/heroine who's getting out and aiming her gun.
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#62 Old 04-06-2007, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Sevenseas View Post

speculative scenario #2: an armed robber enters a store. Instead of him being arrested by the police on the way out, he sees the clerk take the gun from under the desk, panics and shoots everyone in sight.



You are speculating on what a gunman might do? You can never know if his intent was to kill everyone anyway.



Instead of having fairy dust fall on his head making him a better person, he sees the clerk take the gun from under the desk, panics and shoots everyone in sight.
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#63 Old 04-06-2007, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Elena99 View Post

He could also shoot the hero/heroine who's getting out and aiming her gun.



Better to go out like a lion than a lamb.
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#64 Old 04-06-2007, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Ducati View Post

It is possible that a hero/heroine misses and kills an innocent bystander, but if the gunman was going to kill everyone anyway, then many people still have the opportunity to live. Most people who obtain CCW's are responsible enough to practice with their firearm and keep their accuracy up. The same can't be said for most people who drive cars.



Most people who carry concealed realize that they are likely only to draw when someone else is in danger. If someone has a gun on me, I will never be able to draw my weapon. I would be shot dead before I got my shirt untucked. If I felt that killing people was not their intent, such as in a robbery, I would do all I could to help them get what they want and leave. Then call the police. If they are unstable and they have already killed people, then I rush them to disarm. A knife is a different story.



I hope that if i ever have to draw a weapon, that I never have to fire. However, I am prepared to do so if I have no other options.



This is a really depressing thread. I do see what you mean, it's just something that I would never think of. I can't say that it never happens here, because there was that school shooting in Montreal a few months ago. People do have guns. It's just the importance of having the right to have them that seems strange and a little depressing.
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#65 Old 04-06-2007, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Ducati View Post

Better to go out like a lion than a lamb.



Does it really matter?
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#66 Old 04-06-2007, 03:47 PM
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Joe, I'm not arguing anything about the homeowner who confronted the burglar. I don't know if he was wise or unwise. It worked out that no one got hurt. It doesn't always.



As the police officers, chief and sheriff with whom I spoke said nothing about citizens arrest being illegal or the homeowner doing anything improper, it may be safe to say such things are not illegal in this state.

Q: How many poets does it take to change a light bulb? A: 1001...one to change the bulb, 1000 to say it's already been done.
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#67 Old 04-06-2007, 03:59 PM
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Does it really matter?



Yes it does. You might live if you fight, but you will die if you don't, so always better to fight.
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#68 Old 04-06-2007, 05:11 PM
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No
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#69 Old 04-06-2007, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by thebelovedtree View Post

In my state it would be illegal for the homeowner to hold him at gun point until the police got there and I suspect the "trap" waiting with a gun would also be illegal.



Please state why holding an intruder at gunpoint to allow police to arrive would be illegal in your state.



In addition, please explain how telling someone you won't be home, when you really will be, is illegal.



This should be a hoot.
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#70 Old 04-06-2007, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by thebelovedtree View Post

NC has no citizens arrest and it's (afaik) illegal to hold people at gun point if you're not law enforcement. You're allowed to pull a gun only in instances where it would be legal to shoot someone. You can shoot someone only if you have reasonable fear for you life or the life of someone else, or a rape, severe beating, etc. will take place if you don't shoot. Protecting the stuff in your house isn't something you can legally shoot a criminal over.



Source? If someone enters your home, you would have no idea if they intend harm, therefore you could draw the gun. You then keep them at gunpoint until the police arrive. No one has been shot, nothing illegal has ocurred.



Quote:

Waiting for a non-violent criminal with a gun and then holding him at gun point would put you on shakey legal ground here.



For what?



Quote:

ETA: in NC one can "detain" a person caught committing a felony but the law is not quite a generous to the person doing the "detaining" as a citizens arrest law.



Um, B&E is a felony, right? And the person was detained?



I don't think you understand NC law.
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#71 Old 04-06-2007, 05:49 PM
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well i dont care cause guns are dumb, honestly if someone is going to kill another person at least be man enough to step up and do it by hand.
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#72 Old 04-06-2007, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Ducati View Post

Yes it does. You might live if you fight, but you will die if you don't, so always better to fight.



You didn't mention the possibility if survival. Of course I'd fight but my point was that if you're gonna die, it doesn't really matter how.
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#73 Old 04-06-2007, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by pkk View Post

You didn't mention the possibility if survival. Of course I'd fight but my point was that if you're gonna die, it doesn't really matter how.



Sure it does. You might wound or kill the gunman before you die, or you might distract him long enough for someone else to attack. By fighting, you might allow other to live.



Also, how would you possibly be able to know that you will die whether you fight or not?
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#74 Old 04-06-2007, 06:21 PM
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All I know is that I am home with my boys alone a lot. If someone attempts to break into my home and possibly hurt one or both of my kids, they are going to deal with me and my gun first. There would not be time to call the police and have them here in time to do anything about an intruder. I am glad that I have one, I hope I never have to touch it, but I would do anything to keep my children safe. And yes, before anyone asks, they are locked up so that my children have no access to them.
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#75 Old 04-06-2007, 06:25 PM
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i support the right to arm bears.
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#76 Old 04-06-2007, 07:39 PM
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The Metric System never really caught on here in America, with one possible exception, the 9mm.

.

(sorry dumb gun joke)
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#77 Old 04-06-2007, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by pkk View Post

The 2nd Amendment wasn't writen to protect the citizens from criminals. It was written to protect the citizens from the government.

And that's working out great, isn't it!

Keep on freepin' on

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#78 Old 04-06-2007, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Sevenseas View Post

One thing that would worry me about guns is that -- and I base this largely on VB -- the notion of private property seems to be so strong in the US that there are many dangerous people who would be ready to shoot everyone for the slightest trespassing.

Derives from the one-man-militia pretext, I guess.

Keep on freepin' on

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#79 Old 04-06-2007, 08:02 PM
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Though things aren't exactly looking up at this point, we've had no reason to resort to an armed defense against a government attack other than Waco, a few innocent people shot by the police, a stolen presidential election, the absolute eradication of the 4th amendment - heck the cops in Florida shot a guy 68 times.



Yea, I guess you're right.
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#80 Old 04-06-2007, 08:33 PM
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SCARLET



If she is cute I support the right to Bear Wrestle........with a girl of course.
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#81 Old 04-06-2007, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Sevenseas View Post

Drugs would make a much better comparison. I take it you are for the decriminalization of all drugs.



no the right to use drugs is not granted to US citizens however the right to bear arms is.



Ya know I thought about trying to make this just a US citizen thing.



On a side not remember reading that violent crimes stats have risen in both England and Australia since their gun bans went into effect..... odd
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#82 Old 04-06-2007, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by sorrowthepig View Post

And that's working out great, isn't it!



guess that would depend on what you are basing it on.
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#83 Old 04-06-2007, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Shantih View Post

I'm from the UK so the second amendment seems madness to me in the first place. I often wonder why so many Americans think their country would be overtaken by criminals and descend into chaos if the second amendment was abolished when other countries are clearly fine without such a law.



That being said, I don't know if abolishing would achieve anything positive. I personally find the thought of people in the street having concealed weapons disturbing, permit or no, but I don't plan on living in the US anytime soon.



Well see it's like this, when we kicked Englands butt way back when in the late 1700's and sent her packing back across the pond, our founding fathers drafted this paper which was designed to keep the people from falling under some silly little trap like being taxed without representation, and to prevent gov'ts turning into kingdoms, and dictatorships.......
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#84 Old 04-06-2007, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by havocjohn View Post


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevenseas

Drugs would make a much better comparison. I take it you are for the decriminalization of all drugs.

no the right to use drugs is not granted to US citizens however the right to bear arms is.



Nah, let's go ahead and compare.



Drugs are regulated.

Guns are regulated.



A small handful of drugs are very highly regulated and not legally available to the common citizen.

ditto for guns.



A much larger percentage are available to the citizenry by simply following some simple procedural/legal steps.

ditto guns.



Another large percentage are available OTC to anyone who walks into a store with cash in the pocket - no regulations, no paperwork, no questions asked.

hmmm - not so much guns.



So maybe we should start regulating guns like we do drugs?
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#85 Old 04-06-2007, 10:44 PM
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I love it when Red rocks a thread old school style.
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#86 Old 04-07-2007, 12:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by havocjohn View Post

no the right to use drugs is not granted to US citizens however the right to bear arms is.

Since the topic is "should the 2nd amendment be abolished", I think pointing out the existence of the 2nd amendment is somewhat useless. What is at issue in your poll is whether the right to bear arms should be granted to US citizens.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Red View Post


Nah, let's go ahead and compare.



Drugs are regulated.

Guns are regulated.

Yes, and unless you're gonna ban free speech and freedom of association, neither of those facts should obtain.

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made of weak and useless men"

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#87 Old 04-07-2007, 02:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Red View Post

Nah, let's go ahead and compare.



Drugs are regulated.

Guns are regulated.



A small handful of drugs are very highly regulated and not legally available to the common citizen.

ditto for guns.



A much larger percentage are available to the citizenry by simply following some simple procedural/legal steps.

ditto guns.



Another large percentage are available OTC to anyone who walks into a store with cash in the pocket - no regulations, no paperwork, no questions asked.

hmmm - not so much guns.



So maybe we should start regulating guns like we do drugs?

The drugs that are available OTC without restrictions are relatively harmless.

Some guns are harmless as well, and are available without restrictions: BB Guns, squirt guns, cap guns, etc... It's just that there aren't too many guns that are "safe", whereas there are lots of "safe" drugs...



(please don't hurt me)

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#88 Old 04-07-2007, 02:53 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Ducati View Post

Yes it does. You might live if you fight, but you will die if you don't, so always better to fight.

In some scenarios, it's actually the opposite. You're more likely to die if you fight. That is, a burglar/gunman, etc. may leave you alone if you're quiet, hiding, etc.

The ones I pity are the ones who never stick out their neck for something they believe, never know the taste of moral struggle, and never have the thrill of victory. - Jonathan Kozol
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#89 Old 04-07-2007, 02:56 AM
 
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Originally Posted by WonderRandy View Post

The drugs that are available OTC without restrictions are relatively harmless.

That is highly debatable, but is perhaps for another thread.

The ones I pity are the ones who never stick out their neck for something they believe, never know the taste of moral struggle, and never have the thrill of victory. - Jonathan Kozol
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#90 Old 04-07-2007, 03:01 AM
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Interesting thread.... I was so against guns and everything that had to do with them until I did loads of research and my fiance wanted to bring a shotgun into the relationship. I agree that there should be more strict laws and that alllowing some recent gun laws to lapse and expire was an awful mistake.



However, I am a 23yr old, vegetarian, homeowner, with a loaded pistol in the house and a concealed carry permit. If you saw me you would never guess any of those things. I have my reasons and the training to back it up. I'm glad I have the right to own it, and the right to vote, own land, speak out etc.
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