Do you support capital punishment? - Page 10 - VeggieBoards
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#271 Old 02-11-2007, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by nogardsram View Post

Some how this sounds ironic coming from you.

Care to elaborate on the irony?
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#272 Old 02-11-2007, 08:47 AM
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No ... that's not what I'm saying.



I'm saying abortion isn't truly related to capitol punishment.



For the record, I'm pro-life. But this isn't an abortion debate, it's a capitol punishment debate.

Actually it's more about the morality of killing.
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#273 Old 02-11-2007, 08:53 AM
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Actually it's more about the morality of killing.



Different situations call for different measures, but they never put Dahmer or Manson to death ... so ... death penalty = overrated?



Maybe.
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#274 Old 02-11-2007, 08:55 AM
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You talk about how killing is wrong, yet you think it should be condoned if someone does it first? It sounds like you've been saying that the state killing a 'criminal' is not equal to the individual killing someone.

I believe everything.
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#275 Old 02-11-2007, 09:01 AM
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It sounds like you've been saying that the state killing a 'criminal' is not equal to the individual killing someone.

Exactly
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#276 Old 02-11-2007, 09:03 AM
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Different situations call for different measures

Exactly
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#277 Old 02-11-2007, 09:04 AM
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What gives the 'State' power to kill as opposed to the individual?

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#278 Old 02-11-2007, 09:08 AM
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What gives the 'State' power to kill as opposed to the individual?

The Law
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#279 Old 02-11-2007, 09:09 AM
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But 'The Law' was developed and decided by the 'State'.

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#280 Old 02-11-2007, 09:10 AM
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Why would might make right?

Or is there some nuance to your argument that you're not revealing?

edit: meant for vegan joe.



ebola
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#281 Old 02-11-2007, 09:17 AM
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Why would might make right?

Or is there some nuance to your argument that you're not revealing?

edit: meant for vegan joe.



ebola

The killinig of the innocent and the killing of a murderer are two different things. Your might makes right doesn't apply.
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#282 Old 02-11-2007, 09:19 AM
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It sounds to me that is what you're saying. The only thing which gives the 'State' power to kill, is the 'Law' as you said, but again it is developed and decided by the 'State'. So since the State has the power and ability it has the right as well.



It sounds to me what you're saying is effectively 'might makes right.'

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#283 Old 02-11-2007, 09:43 AM
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It's all about take a life lose your life. The will of the people.
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#284 Old 02-11-2007, 09:51 AM
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The State may have enacted the laws, but the people are the ones who voted in the representatives and senators drafting these laws. so the people are the ones who ultimately are responsible.

so here is where it becomes important to vote and to vote for candidates who share you views on major issues.
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#285 Old 02-11-2007, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Vegan Joe View Post

It's all about take a life lose your life. The will of the people.



Do you believe this only in relation to life, or everything that one does should be done back to them?



This doesn't sound like a good approach to me.



Do most people support capital punishment? So what most people want, we should do? It's not a good argument (the will of the people) since many (maybe most or all?) atrocities have been committed by the will of the people.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonoluvr View Post

The State may have enacted the laws, but the people are the ones who voted in the representatives and senators drafting these laws. so the people are the ones who ultimately are responsible.

so here is where it becomes important to vote and to vote for candidates who share you views on major issues.



If I do not vote for the representatives or senators who drafted the laws on capital punishment, how can I be held accountable? Should we blame the people of the early U.S. (and other countries) for slavery or the people who held slaves? Or should I say it was the will of the people at the time and no one is responsible?



So the people are ultimately the ones who kill and not the 'State' is what you're saying. So if killing is wrong, then killing is wrong, regardless of reasons. If I kill someone for killing my wife, it should be no different if they are caught and are killed by the 'State.' However, in the U.S. (at least) I would be tried for killing the killer.



Just because something is "The Law" does not make it right. There are many unjust laws.

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#286 Old 02-11-2007, 11:39 AM
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I am firmly against it. There has to be an incredibly strong argument for the use of aggression (in this case the ultimate aggression). It is up to those who advocate it to make the argument. I say this because all rational, sane people are against the use of aggregation and violence as a default position. So it’s the opposite side that bears the burden of proof. I haven’t seen an argument that comes close to satisfying this burden.
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#287 Old 02-11-2007, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonoluvr View Post

Yep i have to agree with Joe.

Why not volunteer your time to be a mentor, or big brother/sister to a child who has lost a parent........these kids who have a parent who was murdered may appreciate the visits the time spent, someone to talk to.

seems like a better way to spend time, energy, and emotion to me.



both?



We're actually still looking for connections for children; there aren't really orphanages anymore. The service group is still getting started, but elderly, and children were on the list before prisoners for what its worth. Hoping for a kickoff next Saturday, Lord willing.
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#288 Old 02-11-2007, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by AvianObserver View Post

I am firmly against it. There has to be an incredibly strong argument for the use of aggression (in this case the ultimate aggression). It is up to those who advocate it to make the argument. I say this because all rational, sane people are against the use of aggregation and violence as a default position. So its the opposite side that bears the burden of proof. I havent seen an argument that comes close to satisfying this burden.

You hit the nail on the head. I won't be holding my breath for a reasonable argument tho.



I wonder how pro-life folk who are also pro-capital punishment (you are joe, right?) reconcile the dp with women who have had abortions. Another one, how about vigilanties?



eta: oops, i just read in another thread that an abortion debate got started here and i haven't back read yet. so, sorry if it has been covered.
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#289 Old 02-11-2007, 01:43 PM
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I wonder how pro-life folk who are also pro-capital punishment (you are joe, right?) reconcile the dp with women who have had abortions.

Well what ever I am it is just mind boggling to thing one could get so upset over killing a murderer and then not see the social or moral

inplications of killing an unborn child who has committed no crime. And that sentient argument is just a cop out for killing a living being, Too bad it not a chicken or a cow But it's only crimes was in still being a fetus.
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#290 Old 02-11-2007, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Vegan Joe View Post

And that sentient argument is just a cop out for killing a living being,

I assume you don't kill plants, then, as they are living but not sentient.

"and I stand

upon a mountain

made of weak and useless men"

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