Ségolène Royal - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 11-18-2006, 10:24 AM
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Ségolène Royal has been elected by the French Socialist Party to be their Presidential candidate. She has a good chance of winning.



Ségolène Royal has four children with her partner. They have never married.



Would this be acceptable in the United States for a Presidential candidate, or would this rule her out straight away? (The fact that they have never married - not the fact that they have four children!)



For the French this is a complete non-issue, just as the fact that François Mitterand had a mistress and a hidden child.
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#2 Old 11-18-2006, 10:30 AM
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In the US, a female political candidate living with a partner instead of a spouse, regardless of whether there are children, would probably not rule her out right away (unless she's a Republican), but it would certainly greatly diminish her chances of winning. The opposition would make an enormous issue of it.

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#3 Old 11-18-2006, 10:32 AM
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Well, considering the fact that the US has never had a female or admitted non-Christian president, and only one bachelor president, I'm going to say no, she wouldn't have a chance.



Family and morals are emphasized in campaigns. They want to attract the Christian right and convince voters that they are good people outside of politics. It doesn't always work that way, but they always attempt to give that impression.
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#4 Old 11-18-2006, 10:50 AM
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Segolene Royal looks pretty promising.....I'd vote for her over Sarkozy, but then again, I'm a Socialist.



In the US, I think it would be impossible for a woman in her situation to be elected. I just see marriage as a state sanction, nothing more.
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#5 Old 11-18-2006, 12:01 PM
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I'm so sick of canididates yakking it up about their families and how grandma taught them to pronounce their names propertly, etc. WTF does that have to do with governing? I'm tired of it. I could hardly care less if the candidates have pretty, smiling spouses and adorable children. Tell me what you plan to do, and then flipping do it.

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#6 Old 11-18-2006, 01:29 PM
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So is she really a socialist or just the French version of Tony Blair?

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#7 Old 11-18-2006, 01:38 PM
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I don't think she is a French version of Tony Blair. This is a very simplistic way for her detractors to try and diminish her. I do not think she is as Socialist as she "should" be and I think the Socialist Party in France will anyway never be as it used to be.



She's the best that France has to offer at the moment. It would be a very sad day for France if Sarkozy became President.
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#8 Old 11-18-2006, 01:57 PM
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Such a person would never get elected in the US. We have very few women in politics to begin with. It is a shame that people are so closed-minded.
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#9 Old 11-18-2006, 02:02 PM
 
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I too, think that the non-married woman would get raked over the coals pretty well. She certainly wouldn't be nominated as Republican, and I'd doubt she'd get far in the Dems inner circle either.



I'm becoming more and more curious to see what 2008 offers America. One of the Brit papers was talking about how it's quite interesting to see that the leading contenders (or, I would say 2 of the leading contenders) for the Democratic nod are a woman and an African-American. I'm not sure either of them will get nominated, and I'm even less sure either could win the GE, but that it's a good possibility is something (I think )



Diana..do you think the Socialists have just become more moderate as a way of obtaining office? That is, if they stuck to the leftist end of the spectrum, they might get elected less.

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#10 Old 11-18-2006, 02:08 PM
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She's the best that France has to offer at the moment. It would be a very sad day for France if Sarkozy became President.

Okay, that's a good point. I take your word for it. I might be cheering for her, then.

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#11 Old 11-18-2006, 06:15 PM
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I too, think that the non-married woman would get raked over the coals pretty well. She certainly wouldn't be nominated as Republican, and I'd doubt she'd get far in the Dems inner circle either.





And you think a man who has 4 children out of wedlock wouldn't?
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#12 Old 11-18-2006, 06:55 PM
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she did not say that tame.

listen carefully.

pay attention.
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#13 Old 11-18-2006, 07:19 PM
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People in this thread keep referencing an apparent double standard.



I don't see one, as no man would go far in the US under these circumstances. Nor should they. I personally wouldn't vote for this dirty slut, no matter what party she was in.
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#14 Old 11-18-2006, 07:22 PM
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i thought the issue [for some voters] was not that she was a woman but that she was unmarried and with children.



why do you view her as a dirty slut? becasue she has children? does not your wife also have children?
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#15 Old 11-18-2006, 08:00 PM
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i thought the issue [for some voters] was not that she was a woman but that she was unmarried and with children.



Right. And an unmarried man with 4 kids would be in the same boat, so those who keep making an issue of a woman being held back by this are missing the obvious.



Quote:

why do you view her as a dirty slut? becasue she has children? does not your wife also have children?





Figure it out.
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#16 Old 11-18-2006, 08:21 PM
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People in this thread keep referencing an apparent double standard.

Two sides to every coin.

Quote:
I don't see one, as no man would go far in the US under these circumstances. Nor should they.

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Keep on freepin' on

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#17 Old 11-19-2006, 03:19 AM
 
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And you think a man who has 4 children out of wedlock wouldn't?

As noted, I didn't say that. I referenced a female because that's what was being discussed here. I don't see a gender double standard wrt marriage at all (in the US). Kids out of wedlock = sounding of a political death knell, at least on the national level.

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#18 Old 11-19-2006, 10:27 AM
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Diana..do you think the Socialists have just become more moderate as a way of obtaining office? That is, if they stuck to the leftist end of the spectrum, they might get elected less.



No, I don't think so. I think the Socialist party was just overtaken by the moderates. I think on the contrary, that if they had stuck to real Socialism, they would have more supporters.



(Socialist in Europe does not mean Communism by the way. I point this out because I think in America the two terms are often confused. The Communist Party in France is completely separate to the Socialist Party.)
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#19 Old 11-19-2006, 10:30 AM
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Ségolène Royal's partner and her have been together since the early 1970s. They are a very close couple. He is the First Secretary of the Socialist Party.



(He he!!! The term "out of wedlock" sounds SO middle ages!!! It is like so PURITAN!!! No-one here ever talks about being "born out of wedlock". LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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#20 Old 11-20-2006, 07:58 AM
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I don't see a gender double standard wrt marriage at all (in the US). Kids out of wedlock = sounding of a political death knell, at least on the national level.

Grover Cleveland managed it pretty well when it came up in the campaign.



I'm not sure if she really likes Tony Blair or not but the symbolism is important as a moderate reinventor of the party platform. Labour's own extreme platform of nationalization of key industries is what shut them out of politics for the entire eighties, time conducive to rethinking their entire platform. The parellels to the french socialist party are apt, especially given that the french socialist party in the 80's were elected and did enact their extreme nationalization program that took the economy into the the red after decades of relative properity under the gaullists.



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No, I don't think so. I think the Socialist party was just overtaken by the moderates. I think on the contrary, that if they had stuck to real Socialism, they would have more supporters.

like you'd even know real socialism if it bit you on the ass and sent you to the gulag for re-education.

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#21 Old 11-20-2006, 08:56 AM
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(He he!!! The term "out of wedlock" sounds SO middle ages!!! It is like so PURITAN!!! No-one here ever talks about being "born out of wedlock". LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)





Sad to say they still say it in Louisiana--that and being a ******* if your folks aren't married. I kid you not. I have had school officials call a child a ******* (as in asking the mother "Ah, so I see you don't list anything for father. Is the child a *******, then?)



Oh and "living in sin" to refer to unmarried people living together. We ARE married but I kept my family name and we were ALWAYS being lectured on living in sin. The only bank in town refused to give us a joint chequing account with our names written on there. The bank manager gave us this big lecture on living in sin. We had to bring our marriage licence in to prove we were married and get cheques. Then he gave us a lecture about the wife submitting to the husband and feminists breaking down the moral fibre of our country...blah blah blah.



So no--can't see this ever happening in the US because the Bible Belt states would never allow that woman living in sin with her ******* children born out of wedlock to rule this country--besides a woman should submit before men and has no place in politics. We don't want her to hurt her pretty little head. Back to the kitchen with you, Missy.



Can you see why we fled the country??? (well, fled Louisiana??)

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#22 Old 11-20-2006, 09:55 AM
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like you'd even know real socialism if it bit you on the ass and sent you to the gulag for re-education.



I don't think you understand Western European politics. You make me laugh out loud. Socialism has absolutely nothing to do with Stalinism. LOL!!!!!!



(Just like here, a liberal is someone who is right-wing!)
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#23 Old 11-20-2006, 09:59 AM
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Spidergrrl: Your post makes me shake my head. This is the 21st Century for god's sake!!! I think the last time I heard the word "living in sin" was about 30 years ago, and it made people smile even then.



No honestly. Not being married and having kids is a complete non-issue. Like I said, no-one blinks an eyelid that Royal is not married and that François Mitterand had a mistress and a hidden child. It just doesn't make the news. Even the right-wingers do not give a damn.
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#24 Old 11-20-2006, 11:29 AM
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No honestly. Not being married and having kids is a complete non-issue. Like I said, no-one blinks an eyelid that Royal is not married and that François Mitterand had a mistress and a hidden child. It just doesn't make the news. Even the right-wingers do not give a damn.

They did care, there was much speculation and denials but you're deceptively overlooking the fact that the final confirmation came at Mitterand's Funeral. Of course maybe you have no sense of decency and such things do not seem relevant to you. But yeah I'd have to agree that France cares less about family level social responsibility not to mention international commitments like NATO.



Quote:
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I don't think you understand Western European politics. You make me laugh out loud. Socialism has absolutely nothing to do with Stalinism. LOL!!!!!!

off the top of my head, stalinism and stalin's contributions to marxist-leninist theory would be socialism in one state. yes yes the common retort that socialism has nothing to do with any country or party that declares themselves socialist all a very amusing aspect of the avowedly atheistic marxist religion. once again the undeniable forces of historical materialism compell me to call your bull****.

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#25 Old 11-20-2006, 12:59 PM
 
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Grover Cleveland managed it pretty well when it came up in the campaign.



Perhaps I should've been more overtly, abundantly clear and stated that I was referring to the current era.

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#26 Old 11-20-2006, 02:15 PM
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Otomik: Please tell me more. You are really amusing me greatly. I really think you are confusing European Socialist Parties with the Communist-Marxist parties. They are WORLDS apart.



And no, people were aware before Mitterand's funeral that he had a daughter. It was no surprise. And a non-issue.
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#27 Old 11-21-2006, 02:57 PM
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Wow. Marriage seems to be such a bad word on this thread! Why is it so wrong to have the notion that couples should be married and not living together?



I should add a disclaimer . . . I don't think it's bad to live together - especially when there's no kids involved. But it seems that if you prefer your politicians to be married then you're narrowminded conservative.
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#28 Old 11-21-2006, 03:22 PM
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The idea that our elected representatives should be married is discriminatory against bachelors & bachelorettes, against unmarried couples and (in places where only heterosexuals are allowed to marry) against homosexuals. It is a narrowminded and conservative idea.

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#29 Old 11-21-2006, 03:22 PM
 
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Hm. Marriage isn't a bad thing at all..it's just that the notion that one HAS to be married to be "moral", "responsible" or what have you is a bit silly.



Married = good. Not married = good.



Or as Paul might say, learning to be content in whatever state you're in.

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#30 Old 11-21-2006, 03:27 PM
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The idea that our elected representatives should be married is discriminatory against bachelors & bachelorettes, against unmarried couples and (in places where only heterosexuals are allowed to marry) against homosexuals. It is a narrowminded and conservative idea.





Get over yourself.

I don't care if someone is a bachelor or bachelorette. However, I see marriage as an important part of our society, and if someone chooses to be in a relationship and have children without a marriage, my guess is that their views and beliefs diverge enough from mine that I will not vote for them.
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