Arrest in Ramsey case - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 08-16-2006, 04:03 PM
 
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BOULDER, Colo. - A man suspected in the slaying of 6-year-old beauty queen JonBenet Ramsey nearly a decade ago was arrested Wednesday in Thailand, the district attorney said in the long-awaited breakthrough in one of the nation's most lurid unsolved murder cases.



District Attorney Mary Lacey said the arrest followed several months of work. She disclosed no details about the suspect before a news conference scheduled for Thursday.



CBS reported that he is a 41-year-old second-grade teacher and will be brought back to the United States this weekend. Federal officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the man was already being held in Bangkok on unrelated sex charges.



Ramsey family attorney Lin Wood said in Atlanta that the arrest was vindication for JonBenet's parents, John and Patsy Ramsey, who came under suspicion in the slaying.



Full story from AP/Yahoo:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060816/...onbenet_ramsey

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#2 Old 08-16-2006, 05:23 PM
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Wow. If they nail this guy, a lot of people will owe the Ramseys apologies.
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#3 Old 08-16-2006, 07:24 PM
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Interesting.
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#4 Old 08-17-2006, 02:52 AM
 
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Wow. If they nail this guy, a lot of people will owe the Ramseys apologies.



No doubt. I honestly thought the case would never be solved. My money wasn't on the Ramseys though, but on Santa, heh. (freaky-ass neighbor who played Santa each year)

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#5 Old 08-17-2006, 06:43 AM
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Whoah, I had no idea Patsy died.
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#6 Old 08-17-2006, 06:35 PM
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I never believed the ramsey's killed their daughter...however, I do think it's criminal all the make-up and get-ups they put on her....for the sake of what...exactly?



b
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#7 Old 08-18-2006, 09:42 PM
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Did you see the sketch the phychic did in 1998? Looks a lot like him. So many similarities. http://www.newsnet5.com/news/9695462/detail.html
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#8 Old 08-18-2006, 10:25 PM
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Just when you think you've heard the end of a population information fad, it sneaks back up on you.
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#9 Old 08-18-2006, 10:52 PM
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its lookin like this guy is just some nut who made it all up. we'll see.
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#10 Old 08-18-2006, 10:53 PM
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its lookin like this guy is just some nut who made it all up. we'll see. i also didn't know that patsy died thats sad.
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#11 Old 08-18-2006, 10:53 PM
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its lookin like this guy is just some nut who made it all up. we'll see. i also didn't know that patsy died thats sad.
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#12 Old 08-18-2006, 10:54 PM
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its lookin like this guy is just some nut who made it all up. we'll see. i also didn't know that patsy died thats sad.
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#13 Old 08-19-2006, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Kay9 View Post

its lookin like this guy is just some nut who made it all up. we'll see.



Yes, unfortunately it seems very difficult to tell whether this guy is really the killer. He's made some statements that do not check out, and even his ex-wife says he has an alibi for the time of the killing. On the other hand, some of his statements seem to indicate that he knows things about the crime that are not publicly known. So he might be just some nut who wants his 15 minutes of fame.



He does have some kiddie-porn charges against him in California. So I am not saying he doesn't belong in jail. But he may not have had any involvement in the JonBenet Ramsey killing.



Wait and see seems to be called for here.
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#14 Old 08-19-2006, 12:27 PM
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maybe he didn't do it but via kiddy-porn contacts, heard about details of the murder or something.
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#15 Old 08-19-2006, 03:42 PM
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Whether or not he's guilty, pedophilia seems to be getting v. popular. It's been in the news all week here- 2 young teen boys in Saskatchewan/ Manitoba abducted & molested, a group of men abused by a priest as boys asking that the priest be defrocked, three local children approached by a man in a truck who demanded they get in last week, etc.

It seems like pedophilia is either growing, or there's much more talk of it.

I don't get it at all, but having talked with convicted pedophiles at a 12 step group, it seems like a sexual persuasion they can't shake any more than a homo or heterosexual can't shake their attraction to the same/opposite sex. It is sad to be a pedohile, as there's no legal or non-damaging way to enact what turns you on, & no credible way to simply turn off your desires.

JonBenet's alleged killer says he never meant to hurt her, & the pedophiles I've talked with say the same thing, & even that the kids were turned on too.

I don't know what the answer is- lifetime incarceration/institutionalization for pedophiles? After all, the experts say this group is an extremely high risk to reoffend. Castration? Sadly, as one pedophile told me, that only lowers the desire a bit & disables the penis. He said it's still possible to molest with hands, mouth, objects, etc.
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#16 Old 08-19-2006, 07:09 PM
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I vote for "there's much more talk about it"



Victims are speaking out more. It's still a dirty secret, but one that is being told more frequently, rather than being swept under the family rug.
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#17 Old 08-19-2006, 07:24 PM
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The whole dang story is really sad. It bugs me though, that other unsolved murders of equally valuable people go comparatively unnoticed because the victim was not a "6-year-old beauty queen." Is a murder any less horrific if the deceased is an ugly child?



I blame TV news.

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#18 Old 08-19-2006, 10:02 PM
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The whole dang story is really sad. It bugs me though, that other unsolved murders of equally valuable people go comparatively unnoticed because the victim was not a "6-year-old beauty queen." Is a murder any less horrific if the deceased is an ugly child?



I blame TV news.



or a poor or non-white child?
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#19 Old 08-20-2006, 11:10 AM
 
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See, now I heard that critcism back in 1997 too (the other children are murdered thing). But...the beauty queen thing is part of what makes it interesting. It's not just that she was rich and white, but that she lived in this sort of freakish reality. Add to that, the whole "small foreign faction" thing, and sweet Moses, the botched police job...it's not just about social class.

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#20 Old 08-20-2006, 11:18 AM
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"& no credible way to simply turn off your desires."



That is irrelevant. No matter how strong your desire for sexual relations with children is, you can avoid having any sexual contact with them. It is not all that difficult. Sex with a particular "object" is not required for well being, they way ingestion of a particular food is, or clothing and shelter is required. Unlike food, clothing, and shelter, sexual gratification can be achieved with imaginary objects instead of with real objects, real children. Their is no excuse for having sexual relations with children.
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#21 Old 08-20-2006, 11:35 AM
 
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I didn't get the impression that Organica was excusing pedophiles, but rather expressing frustration at the inability to cure them.

The ones I pity are the ones who never stick out their neck for something they believe, never know the taste of moral struggle, and never have the thrill of victory. - Jonathan Kozol
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#22 Old 08-20-2006, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by IamJen View Post

I didn't get the impression that Organica was excusing pedophiles, but rather expressing frustration at the inability to cure them.



Correct. I do not support child molestation!!!
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#23 Old 08-20-2006, 12:06 PM
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But...the beauty queen thing is part of what makes it interesting. It's not just that she was rich and white, but that she lived in this sort of freakish reality.



Right. A reality that bordered on pedophelia & being pimped out by her parents (mom) to dress up like a grown woman and move in suggestive motions. I think that it became an area of fascination for a lot of people -- i don't suppose a lot of people knew about these beauty pageants for toddlers & very young children, especially the over-sexualized aspect of them. It was creepy in an uncomfortable and sick sort of way.
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#24 Old 08-20-2006, 12:58 PM
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How many other children in the child and toddler beauty pagents have been murdered?

Q: How many poets does it take to change a light bulb? A: 1001...one to change the bulb, 1000 to say it's already been done.
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#25 Old 08-20-2006, 01:58 PM
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IamJen "I didn't get the impression that Organica was excusing pedophiles, but rather expressing frustration at the inability to cure them."



She is not excusing pedophile acting out, but she seems to think the only choice is lifetime incarceration/institutionalization? Because, she says, "After all, the experts say this group is an extremely high risk to reoffend." As if they were unable to avoid acceding to their desires. And if it were necessary to cure them, in order to stop them from re-offending. It is NOT necessary to cure them of pedaphilia.



I would assume that their are lots of pedaphiles who never get into trouble, except once in their youth -- and quickly learn their behavior is unacceptable. Because it is in their youth, there is no record of the offense. The ones that offend are not suffering from pedaphilia alone, they are suffering from acceding to their desires, rather than not acceeding. There are probably more non-practicing pedaphiles than their are practicing pedaphiles. People who we don't know have a desire for sex with children, because they are good at 1. not having sex with children despite their desire, and 2. not talking about their un-gratified desires, because they know people don't like to hear about it. I can't tell you how many high school and junior high school teachers I know that privately admit to a few close friends how much they like teens and pre-teens in their classes -- and never actually get involved with any. I think this is the majority of the teachers I've known. They are indeed pedaphiles, but they don't get into trouble. They get their wives to dress up like teenagers.



The prob is not pedaphilia, it is only that some pedaphiles refuse to control their imprinted impulses. The solution is not to change their impulses, as organica implies. The solution is for them get gratification some other way.
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#26 Old 08-20-2006, 02:46 PM
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What it is nec to "cure" them of is their idea that gratificaction of their desires is something they have a right to purse, it is owed to them, without regard to how it affects others.
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#27 Old 08-20-2006, 03:59 PM
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I'd wager there are more than a few pedophiles out there who realise that their desires could be potentially very harmful and do not act on them. Those people cannot change their sexual perversions but show commendable concern for the well-being of others in keeping them to themselves.



The only pedophiles we really know about are those that act on it. Those that have already acted on it have shown either an inability to control themselves, just don't care or are deluded enough to think that it doesn't harm the kids. If we admit that pedophilia itself isn't something that's changable but rather give offenders effective ways to manage themselves, that'd possibly work better than locking them up forever, though you'll always have the ones without any desire to keep in control.



I don't really know what to think about this particular case. Not that it isn't a tragic scenario, but there are kids being murdered all over the place and I can't think of a single one that's recieved as much attention as this. The weirdness of the story certainly plays into that, but also the fact that she's rich and white. It's sad in pretty much every way I can think of.
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#28 Old 08-20-2006, 07:58 PM
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It's now being reported that Karr sought a sex-change operation while in Thailand.



http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/08/20/ka...ion=cnn_latest



Reminds me of "Jamie Gumb" in Silence of the Lambs.
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#29 Old 08-20-2006, 08:05 PM
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How many other children in the child and toddler beauty pagents have been murdered?



I don't know. But that wasn't my point.



My point was that I think it opened a lot of people's eyes to the fact that parents pimp out their babies in these beauty pageants and essentially force them to do things that are very un-childlike. It's very weird, and forcing a child to dress up in makeup and make suggestive movements is borderline pedophelia don't you think? It's not like the girl was dressed up in overalls & t-shirts and swinging on swings on a stage. She was dressed up as a woman, sometimes in provocative clothing, and swinging her hips, wearing lipstick, etc. The fact that people do this to their children is a bit disturbing.
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#30 Old 08-20-2006, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by skylark View Post

How many other children in the child and toddler beauty pagents have been murdered?



Quote:
NEWSWEEKs Julie Scelfo spoke with Carl Dunn, CEO of Pageantry Magazine, the industry's leading news source with a quarterly magazine and widely read Web site, about how the JonBenet case impacted the world of pageants. Excerpts:



NEWSWEEK: How has the JonBenet case impacted the pageantry industry?

Carl Dunn: Ten years ago we were inundated with calls, e-mails. The crime really didnt have much to do with pageantry per se, but that was the image. More than anything else, the video footage made more people aware of the industry, and many new pageants and local events came into existence.



So youre saying it actually helped the industry?

Exactly. It gave it more of a national exposure and it gave people the idea that this was a business model they could be a part of. A lot of business people and possible participants became more aware of the opportunities that are out there, so the industry experienced a growth in participation.



Have there been other cases where beauty pageant contestants were victims of abuse?

Not that Im aware of. This was a tragic story of a mother who competed in pageants and put her daughter in what are called Glam Pageants, more of a costume-type event as opposed to what is a natural-type event.



http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14396810/site/newsweek/
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