Why does Israel kill children in retaliation for kidnapping soldiers? - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 07-12-2006, 11:54 PM
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Israeli aircraft and artillery continued attacking targets in southern Lebanon overnight, police reported. Leading TV station LBC said at least 22 civilians were killed in the attacks, including a family of 12 in the village of Dweir.



Other television stations, including Hezbollah's al-Manar, said 27 people were killed, including 10 children.



http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...8IQTOQG0.shtml



Hizbullah started out targetting military targets now they can 'justify' attacking Israel civilian targets and escalation will continue.
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#2 Old 07-13-2006, 12:37 AM
 
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*sigh*

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#3 Old 07-13-2006, 12:41 AM
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It seems that nobody in the region really wants peace. Both sides seem intent on killing each other. Both sides can point to atrocities commited by the other and each side seems to know how to really piss off the other. Tragic.
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#4 Old 07-13-2006, 01:02 AM
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Lebanese guerrillas also fired volleys of rockets at northern Israel, killing an Israeli woman and wounding five, the army and medics said. The woman was killed when a rocket hit her home in the northern border town of Nahariya.



Seems to me the difference here is firepower. Israel have it, this lot don't. Too bad for them.



Anyway, I like Israel. They created the Merkava, Desert Eagle and Uzi. I hope they win if they bury the rest in the process or not.
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#5 Old 07-13-2006, 01:20 AM
 
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I don't think there is any "winning", really. Just a bunch of people ending up dead.

The ones I pity are the ones who never stick out their neck for something they believe, never know the taste of moral struggle, and never have the thrill of victory. - Jonathan Kozol
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#6 Old 07-13-2006, 01:47 AM
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Originally Posted by MrFalafel View Post

It seems that nobody in the region really wants peace. Both sides seem intent on killing each other. Both sides can point to atrocities commited by the other and each side seems to know how to really piss off the other. Tragic.



I don't think it's true. People from all sides want peace, or at least to live in peace. The problem is that nobody really know how to get it at the moment. There were times when peace seemed to be around the corner, that if each side will comprimise a little we can live together. It's harder to see it today, although I still believe there will be a solution to the middle east conflict some day.

At the moment I think everyone is just scared of what's coming next.
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#7 Old 07-13-2006, 01:47 AM
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I don't think there is any "winning", really. Just a bunch of people ending up dead.



Well, unless they're both annihilated at once, one side is eventually going to outlast the other.
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#8 Old 07-13-2006, 01:53 AM
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Seems to me the difference here is firepower. Israel have it, this lot don't. Too bad for them.



Anyway, I like Israel. They created the Merkava, Desert Eagle and Uzi. I hope they win if they bury the rest in the process or not.



So killing women and children is OK in your book? Interesting.
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#9 Old 07-13-2006, 01:54 AM
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I don't think it's true. People from all sides want peace, or at least to live in peace. The problem is that nobody really know how to get it at the moment. There were times when peace seemed to be around the corner, that if each side will comprimise a little we can live together. It's harder to see it today, although I still believe there will be a solution to the middle east conflict some day.

At the moment I think everyone is just scared of what's coming next.



Those same people vote in right-wing hardliners into Israel's government and give money/ time to Hamas/Hizbulla... 'the people' are supporting the fighting with their votes.
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#10 Old 07-13-2006, 01:55 AM
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So killing women and children is OK in your book? Interesting.

I could count the people I really care about on my fingers. As for the rest, I won't lose any sleep over it.
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#11 Old 07-13-2006, 01:56 AM
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I could count the people I really care about on my fingers. As for the rest, I won't lose any sleep over it.



Lovely.
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#12 Old 07-13-2006, 02:01 AM
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I'm glad you think so.
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#13 Old 07-13-2006, 02:06 AM
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Originally Posted by MrFalafel View Post

Those same people vote in right-wing hardliners into Israel's government and give money/ time to Hamas/Hizbulla... 'the people' are supporting the fighting with their votes.



That's not true.

In the last elections in Israel the big winner was Kadima, which was not considered to be a right-wing party and the main issue on its flag was going to another withdrawal.

People do want to live in peace, it's just not so easy to do so here.

If you have a realistic solution, write it.
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#14 Old 07-13-2006, 02:15 AM
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That's not true.

In the last elections in Israel the big winner was Kadima, which was not considered to be a right-wing party and the main issue on its flag was going to another withdrawal.

People do want to live in peace, it's just not so easy to do so here.

If you have a realistic solution, write it.



Kadima was founded by Sharon, who is accused of atrocities during his military days. OK, Kadima may not be as right-wing as Likud but look who's bombing civilians now....



Peace is a two-way street. Everybody talks about peace but nobody wants to sacrifice anything for it, which is the same as not really wanting it, IMHO.
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#15 Old 07-13-2006, 02:20 AM
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I'm glad you think so.



We'll be here when you grow up a little...or a lot.
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#16 Old 07-13-2006, 02:59 AM
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Originally Posted by MrFalafel View Post

Those same people vote in right-wing hardliners into Israel's government and give money/ time to Hamas/Hizbulla... 'the people' are supporting the fighting with their votes.



I don't think one can really talk about "the people" so easily, or as though it's somehow unaninmous, and well-understood what the result of an election will be. One could say the same thing that you say about the US and British governments. Ex., look at all the war-mongering Bush has done, and ostensibly "the people" voted him in. But many people are unhappy with the state of affairs, and I think one could say the same thing about Israel.

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#17 Old 07-13-2006, 03:13 AM
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I could count the people I really care about on my fingers. As for the rest, I won't lose any sleep over it.

You once said you were part German, but didn't know how you were like them. Well kido, this is Hitler like thinking. I think you have found your German steriotype. No offense intended.
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#18 Old 07-13-2006, 03:19 AM
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Originally Posted by MrFalafel View Post

Kadima was founded by Sharon, who is accused of atrocities during his military days. OK, Kadima may not be as right-wing as Likud but look who's bombing civilians now....



Peace is a two-way street. Everybody talks about peace but nobody wants to sacrifice anything for it, which is the same as not really wanting it, IMHO.



Do you say that those who voted for Kadima automaticly support killing people? Or that they aren't ready to sacrifice anything? As I mentioned, the main issue in the Kadima agenda was another withdrawal.

It's easy to say that Kadima was established by Sharon, to look at his past and judge everything by that, but that's not what the Kadima voters saw when they went to vote. People voted for Kadima because they didn't see it as a right-wing or a left-wing party. They voted to Kadima because they were happy to be out of Gush Katif, dispite the pain involving in it, and they voted to Kadima because they wanted to see things change, because they didn't want to continue living in war.

I didn't see Kadima offering a real solution, but it's not fair to say that supporting them was supporting another war and killings.



I ask again, what do you think should be done now?
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#19 Old 07-13-2006, 03:46 AM
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You once said you were part German, but didn't know how you were like them. Well kido, this is Hitler like thinking. I think you have found your German steriotype. No offense intended.



I thought he was Austrian.
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#20 Old 07-13-2006, 04:30 AM
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Hitler became a German citizen later in life.
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#21 Old 07-13-2006, 04:40 AM
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Do you say that those who voted for Kadima automaticly support killing people? Or that they aren't ready to sacrifice anything? As I mentioned, the main issue in the Kadima agenda was another withdrawal.

It's easy to say that Kadima was established by Sharon, to look at his past and judge everything by that, but that's not what the Kadima voters saw when they went to vote. People voted for Kadima because they didn't see it as a right-wing or a left-wing party. They voted to Kadima because they were happy to be out of Gush Katif, dispite the pain involving in it, and they voted to Kadima because they wanted to see things change, because they didn't want to continue living in war.

I didn't see Kadima offering a real solution, but it's not fair to say that supporting them was supporting another war and killings.



I ask again, what do you think should be done now?



All props to Kadima for moving forward with settlements issue. But at the same time they've ordered the kidnapping and incarceration of elected ministers of a neighboring state. If Britain kidnapped French elected officials and held them without charges, what would world's reaction be?



The reason why Hamas and those guys get popular support is because they are the only group of people who seem to be 'fighting back against Israelli aggression'. The international community lets Israel do whatever they want so the militants have their pick and choosing of volunteers willing to fight to protect their homes, families and livelyhoods. Israels actions create more terrorists. For every rocket attack against Lebannon, a 100 anti-Israellis are created. For every kidnapping in Gaza, another 100 anti-Israellis are created. The sad part is Israellis are being goaded into these actions by extremists. You are playing right into their hands.



You want my solution? Dissolve the Knesset. Dissolve the Palestinian state. Form a new government of the entire region. Assign one vote per person living in the region. Democratically elected government of Israellies and Palestinians governing side-by-side in the same government.
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#22 Old 07-13-2006, 04:51 AM
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Hizbullah started out targetting military targets now they can 'justify' attacking Israel civilian targets and escalation will continue.

I have always been under the impression airports and bridges were military targets.
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#23 Old 07-13-2006, 04:55 AM
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I have always been under the impression airports and bridges were military targets.



Can you explain the military importance of the village of Dweir where women and children were killed?
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#24 Old 07-13-2006, 05:00 AM
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Can you explain the military importance of the village of Dweir where women and children were killed?

since I don't know anything about that village the answer would be no, but I would guess that they were trying to hit a military target; whether it be soldiers or weapons cache.



Since you are not there you really don't have a clue why it was bombed either.
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#25 Old 07-13-2006, 05:01 AM
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You want my solution? Dissolve the Knesset. Dissolve the Palestinian state. Form a new government of the entire region. Assign one vote per person living in the region. Democratically elected government of Israellies and Palestinians governing side-by-side in the same government.



This is a bad solution.

Israellies and Palestinians want to live in two different states, and I see no reason to prevent it.

(I can imagine why an anti-semitic whould want this, but I hope this is not the situation).

A solution should be accepted by the people that will have to live with it, you can't just make up something that might be nice. I asked what's your realistic solution, and what you offer isn't realistic. Also, it's a wide plan, what do you think should be done right now to stop the present fighting?
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#26 Old 07-13-2006, 05:03 AM
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since I don't know anything about that village the answer would be no, but I would guess that they were trying to hit a military target; whether it be soldiers or weapons cache.



Since you are not there you really don't have a clue why it was bombed either.



Women and children were killed in retaliation for kidnapping soldiers. Thats a fact we can both agree on.
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#27 Old 07-13-2006, 05:03 AM
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since I don't know anything about that village the answer would be no, but I would guess that they were trying to hit a military target; whether it be soldiers or weapons cache.



Since you are not there you really don't have a clue why it was bombed either.



usually the answer is that there are no military targets and civilian targets, since terror organisation use civilian villages as military bases. Bombs are sent from people's houses.
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#28 Old 07-13-2006, 05:07 AM
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Women and children were killed in retaliation for kidnapping soldiers. Thats a fact we can both agree on.



so can we agree on the fact that soldiers were kidnapped and other soldiers were killed as a bargaining card?

Why don't you mention it as something not legitimate?
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#29 Old 07-13-2006, 05:09 AM
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This is a bad solution.

Israellies and Palestinians want to live in two different states, and I see no reason to prevent it.

(I can imagine why an anti-semitic whould want this, but I hope this is not the situation).

A solution should be accepted by the people that will have to live with it, you can't just make up something that might be nice. I asked what's your realistic solution, and what you offer isn't realistic. Also, it's a wide plan, what do you think should be done right now to stop the present fighting?



See? You don't want peace, you want 'your way'. You will only accept peace when you can have it in a way that suits your opinions and your ideas at the forefront. That attitude is why this conflict continiues.



Do Israellis and Palestians want to live in their own states locked in enternal conflict or do they want to live in peace, together, each respecting the others religions and cultures?



OK, a more realistic proposal: Blue helmeted UN troops police all borders between Israel and its neighbors. Israelli troops are de-mobilised, as are their airforce and so on. Same with Lebanon and Palestine. If anyone launches an attack on the other, the UN troops respond with force. Meanwhile, negotiations occur with all funding, from the US and the rest of the world, cut off from the area until an agreement is reached.
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#30 Old 07-13-2006, 05:09 AM
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Women and children were killed in retaliation for kidnapping soldiers. Thats a fact we can both agree on.

sure, I won't deny that and Isreal has the right to defend itself. If the gov't can't stop the extremists from crossing the border Isreal will do what it deems necassary to protect itself.
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