"A world without borders or laws" (anarchism) - Page 3 - VeggieBoards
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#61 Old 04-17-2006, 04:49 PM
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#62 Old 07-29-2009, 04:05 PM
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^Still around?
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#63 Old 07-29-2009, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IamJen View Post

I've come across this statement/mantra a few times in recent days, whilest interacting with some of the local anarchist crowd.



I see the merit (although doubt the practicality) of the "no borders" idea, but with no law, how would the world handle what we currently call crime.



Anarchism is much-discussed subject as of late, but the people espousing this belief that I'm acquainted with, largely fall into one of two categories:



Intellectual-types who speak in philosophical, Utopian terms that leave me questioning their perceptions of reality

or

Disenfranchised youth (aka "angry young white guys") bent on destroying the current system, based on their dissatisfaction, but with little plan for the future.



Are there anarchists "in between" these two extremes? How does an anarchist suggest dealing with "unacceptable" behavior? How do things get done (roads built, sick cared for, yada yada)



Discuss amongst yourselves....

I am not your average anarchist as I am an anarcho-primitivist. My view is that a lot of these 'crimes' you are talking about wouldn't exist if there wasn't civilization. Or if they did, they wouldn't be considered crimes (not that I'm saying I agree with them, just that they wouldn't be considered crimes). Many traditional hunter-gatherer societies who had people who 'broke the law' or did something that the band/tribe deemed unacceptable solved the problem by ostracizing that person from the society for a short period of time.



Road don't get built within anarcho-primitivism because we don't need them, haven't needed them for over 100,000 years, and they are detrimental to the environment (being built on habitats of wildlife). Sick get cared for by EVERYBODY in the band/tribe. If you are sick in this society you go to the doctor or have him come to you (not much anymore) and have your close family take care of you at home. If you get sick in a traditional society, the healer would come to you as well as the whole band/tribe would take part in the healing process.

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#64 Old 07-31-2009, 11:59 AM
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I look forward to reading this thread. I know I'll want to respond to a lot of posts but I'll just say this (until maybe I've read the entire thread) : anarchists aren't opposed to egalitarian social organization, they are opposed to hierarchical/authoritarian social organization. For example, although police wouldn't exist in an anarchist society, communities could form self-defense militias whose job it would be to patrol the 'hood and prevent individuals from infringing upon the rights of other individuals without giving themselves the authority to arrest, imprison or punish criminals in any way. As long as most people think that homicide or rape are wrong, they will oganize to prevent it, these things are only illegal because most people think they are wrong and not vice versa.



The state is a relatively recent invention, most human cultures have been decentralized throughout the overwhelming majority of our history. The government isn't some separate entity that comes along and takes care of us, the government itself is a product of social organization and every government in the world can be traced back to individuals who arbitrarily appointed themselves or were appointed by a small group of people as authority figures. The very nature of authority and hierarchy is psychologically damaging and an assault on human dignity. I won't go on, in short, my newly adopted anarchist worldview is just an extension of my long-held belief in egalitarianism.



http://www.infoshop.org/faq/index.html



Edit :
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sketchy View Post




The point is humans think and act individually, society needs people to think and act collectively.



A society is just a collection of individuals. Anarchism might be more practical if communities were small, there's less anonymity in smaller groups and the relationships between people are more intimate, as they might have been raised together.



Quote:
gandhi's maybe a better example of an almost mutually agreed upon authority although he had no position or title...he was just a man people loved.



Ghandi considered himself to be an anarchist.



I've come to realize how little control people have over their lives. Other people make decisions on your behalf and you have no input whatsoever (representative democracy), regardless of whether or not your candidate won. If your candidate did win, you can only hope he or she will make decisions you agree with. The land you walk on, outside of your own house, belongs to the state. The state tells you what you're allowed to put into your body, who you're allowed to have consensual sex with and in what circumstances, what to do with your tax dollars (*no conservative*) etc. The debate as to whether or not we're better off without the state is a seperate issue from whether or not the state's authority is legitimate, whether or not they can rightfully claim ownership of the land we walk on or whether or not they are our masters, however benevolent. It's frightening when you really stop to analyze it.
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#65 Old 08-02-2009, 03:07 PM
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^Still around?



Hardly.

Busy, busy. Narcissisticly glad that you noticed though.



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#66 Old 08-06-2009, 11:33 AM
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http://books.google.ca/books?id=G0Pn...age&q=&f=false



-Anarchism



http://illvox.org/category/african-anarchism/







-African Anarchism : The History of a Movement







http://www.prisonpolicy.org/scans/instead_of_prisons/



-Instead of Prisons : A Handbook for Abolitionists
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#67 Old 08-06-2009, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
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Ghandi

Gandhi.

"and I stand

upon a mountain

made of weak and useless men"

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#68 Old 08-06-2009, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doktormartini View Post

I am not your average anarchist as I am an anarcho-primitivist. My view is that a lot of these 'crimes' you are talking about wouldn't exist if there wasn't civilization. Or if they did, they wouldn't be considered crimes (not that I'm saying I agree with them, just that they wouldn't be considered crimes). Many traditional hunter-gatherer societies who had people who 'broke the law' or did something that the band/tribe deemed unacceptable solved the problem by ostracizing that person from the society for a short period of time.



Road don't get built within anarcho-primitivism because we don't need them, haven't needed them for over 100,000 years, and they are detrimental to the environment (being built on habitats of wildlife). Sick get cared for by EVERYBODY in the band/tribe. If you are sick in this society you go to the doctor or have him come to you (not much anymore) and have your close family take care of you at home. If you get sick in a traditional society, the healer would come to you as well as the whole band/tribe would take part in the healing process.



Of course, if the problem is complex and requires more than some roots and leaves mixed together, that healer and the rest of the village will be hanging around to watch you die.



No thanks.
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#69 Old 08-06-2009, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Sevenseas View Post

Gandhi.



My bad, yo!



Abolish the state.
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#70 Old 08-10-2009, 11:41 AM
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Gandhi was dumb.

“May all sentient beings be free of pain and suffering.  May all sentient beings experience eternal joy and happiness.  gate gate pāragate pārasaṃgate bodhi svāhā.”
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#71 Old 08-14-2009, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IamJen View Post


Anarchism is much-discussed subject as of late, but the people espousing this belief that I'm acquainted with, largely fall into one of two categories:



Intellectual-types who speak in philosophical, Utopian terms that leave me questioning their perceptions of reality

or

Disenfranchised youth (aka "angry young white guys") bent on destroying the current system, based on their dissatisfaction, but with little plan for the future.











i feel like i fall in the middle. anarchism gives the human race a lot of credit - that we behave decently, would find ways to take care of the sick, build roads, etc, on our own. that humans are not naturally inclined towards rape and murder etc.



i don't know how seriously i believe anarchism can exist now. we have nuclear weapons. that changes so much.



but i love anarchist matriarchal utopian societies in literature. fantastic stuff.

cry havoc! and let slip the dogs of war.
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#72 Old 08-14-2009, 05:34 PM
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Anarchism may be viable in sparsely populated areas. Try to imagine it in the context of any large metropolitan area, or of the planet as a whole, with its current population - mayhem, at best.
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#73 Old 08-16-2009, 03:20 PM
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"Are there anarchists "in between" these two extremes? How does an anarchist suggest dealing with "unacceptable" behavior? How do things get done (roads built, sick cared for, yada yada)"





Nope, you pretty much got it. The kids don't understand reality because they haven't been educated in practical political science or psychology. The pseudo-intellectuals have immersed themselves so deeply in one theory and dogma that they've lost sight of significant issues such as the fact that society is made up of humans.



Kudos for being open minded to the possibility that it wasn't all nonsense, though.



Look into group psychology (particularly the formation of gangs or cliques, with relation to identity) and Game theory for a better understanding of the issues. History is also an excellent teacher on this subject.
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