Alternative theories about Jesus - Page 5 - VeggieBoards
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#121 Old 04-14-2006, 06:43 AM
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Some believe that a physical "Jesus" never actually existed and was rather a purely mythical character. One main reason for this belief is that prior to Jesus' supposed lifetime, there were many many other mythical characters with remarkably similar traits (eg. was cruxified, rode a donkey, suffered to save the rest of mankind, son of god, born through immaculate conception, etc....). Therefore, some historians believe that this "Jesus" was really only really a bunch of mythical characters rolled into one thus creating the ultimate hero.

I don't see the contradiction between a historical Jesus and the suggestion that maybe his story came to absorb bits and pieces from other miraclemen at the time.

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#122 Old 04-14-2006, 07:39 AM
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There isn't any reliable historical evidence during his supposed lifetime that mentions him, other than two sources, both of which are atleast suspect if not completely dismissed. And quite frankly, there is no systematic method for determining that he existed in the first place. There seems to be alot assumptions and 'where there's smoke there's fire' type of thinking.

Well, I guess that's why it's a religion and not a science. If we had scientific evidence and explanations for everything, there wouldn't be room for miracles and God in the first place. It's the same with all other major religions. I'd like to cut our Bible-Christian debaters a little slack and say that faith and believing that the Bible is the primary authority is absolutely fine. Just don't pretend it's the only acceptable way of seeing things within Christianity, or that people from other religions are likely to stab you in the back because they're not Christians.

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#123 Old 04-14-2006, 08:16 AM
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Since I believe that the Bible is right all of the time and the Bible tells me that John wrote the book of John as well as I, II, and III John, and Paul wrote the book of Corinthians, etc., it would be pretty impossible to convince me otherwise. I go to the Bible and in the face of conflicting evidence, I look to what the Bible says. God's Word is THE authority in my life.

This isn't to be argumentative, just curiosity, does the Bible actually say in the Bible who exactly wrote John I, II, and III as well as Corinthians (I don't know how much controversy there is about Paul as the author). And what about Matthew, Mark and Luke, are you open to the idea that they were not written by apostles? Or out of curiosity again, what does the Bible say about their authorship?

*****************************



As far as faith versus facts and science, I think it's fine if people who want to have faith in something just come out and say (as rawgirl has said somewhat) that they have faith and they choose to believe based on faith regardless on evidence and they are comfortable with that. If someone is not interested in evidence, they should be confident in their choice and has no reason to debate in threads like this. If someone bases their beliefs on evidence and wants to argue based on evidence, then that is what the compost heap is here for.



(not directed at any particular posts here) But what doesn't make sense to me is people saying this is my belief, based on faith and I don't debate or think about the evidence, and neither can anyone else because it's an insult to religion. Or people saying they have faith regardless of lack of evidence or contradictory evidence, and then instead of stopping there, arguing about the evidence (can't have it both ways).



If one has faith independent of evidence and is confident and accepting of their own choice, they shouldn't be bothered by those who are interested in discussing evidence and alternative theories. And I don't think there is anything wrong with people, like myself, who find dogma and refusal to be open to new ideas and evidence troubling. People are free to have blind faith in dogma and hostile to contradictory evidence, and people are free to dislike and criticize that choice. It is a choice whether or not to seek out information and think about it critically or to say, "I'm done, I don't want to think about any new ideas."



The problem with it being taboo to be skeptical of miracles, Jesus, etc. is that it closes the door to making progress in our knowledge. Maybe the skeptics are wrong. But how can we know if there are sacred ideas which cannot be investigated because it is considered insulting or being a party pooper to the believers?
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#124 Old 04-14-2006, 11:37 AM
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Might not apply to all believers, but I was always taught something along the lines of the following:



the bible is the word of god. the proof that the bible is the word of god is that the bible says so. looking, questioning, or seeking proof that the bible is the word of god in a source other than the bible is blasphemy, a greater sin than murder, and an unforgivable sins (ie: believe the bible blindly because it says so or go to hell).



But just thinking that perhaps... there could be traits of this in many belivers - so the risk of questioning is too great, so they allow their fear to prevent themselves into looking at it from other viewpoints.





Back in history classes, it was taught (not sure if true, although can see it), that the bible was used to appease slaves and drive down uprisings (both in the United States, and thousands of years ago). They used the bible to give the slaves something to look forward to in the afterlife, so they knew the more they were punished here just gave them a higher position when they died. --of course not all believe the "the more you suffer, the greater your rewards in heaven" but... just anothing thing that I was told in classes.
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#125 Old 04-14-2006, 05:46 PM
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Thalia, yes the Bible does say that Paul wrote Corinthians and John wrote John, etc. Now Hebrews...I couldn't tell you that one. I guess it will always be a mystery.
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#126 Old 04-14-2006, 06:06 PM
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inie: There are whole BOOKS written about Jesus and the Essenes. It is something I've heard about for years and years - it's not a Dan Brown kind of phenomenon.

That's not a terribly fair statement-- Dan Brown was certainly not the first person to come up with the ideas behind The DaVinci Code. Legends about the Priory of Sion, the legacy of Jesus, and the real identity of Mary have been around for ages, and history books have been written on those, too. Not to mention history books that attempt to ferret out even deeper concepts.



I dunno if I would date Jesus. He seems to have a bit of a God complex.



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#127 Old 04-14-2006, 06:54 PM
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Thalia, yes the Bible does say that Paul wrote Corinthians and John wrote John, etc. Now Hebrews...I couldn't tell you that one. I guess it will always be a mystery.



But that doesn't mean that its true just because the Bible says it is. Yes, the evidence does conclude that Paul did write Corinthians, but the scholarly establishment would not claim that John wrote John. The same can be said for Mark, Matthew and Luke. Furthermore, there are about 5 (possibly 6) of the Epistles of Paul were in fact not written by him, despite the Bible's claim of his authorship. As someone has said, you cannot taken into consideration other evidence only if it doesn't contradict the Bible. All evidence is equal, regardless if its critical of one text or another.
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#128 Old 04-14-2006, 07:26 PM
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Jesus was actually Chris Carpenter. Helluva pitcher.
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#129 Old 04-15-2006, 09:45 AM
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Thalia, yes the Bible does say that Paul wrote Corinthians and John wrote John, etc. Now Hebrews...I couldn't tell you that one. I guess it will always be a mystery.

I was hoping someone could give me verses for my own future reference. Is there a verse that says something like "I, the apostle of Jesus, writes these words" or "That's when Jesus turned to me and said," I really didn't think there was anything in there, but I am just starting to study the Bible.

Thanks.
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#130 Old 04-15-2006, 01:53 PM
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I was hoping someone could give me verses for my own future reference. Is there a verse that says something like "I, the apostle of Jesus, writes these words" or "That's when Jesus turned to me and said," I really didn't think there was anything in there, but I am just starting to study the Bible.

Thanks.



Paul was not an apostle and never knew Jesus firsthand (if he ever existed in the first place) and the author of the Gospel of John was not John the Apostle (atleast as far the the scholarly community is concerned).
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#131 Old 04-19-2006, 08:45 PM
 
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Jesus was actually Chris Carpenter. Helluva pitcher.



Go Cards! 200+ so's last year...maybe he really is divine.



Nice to see you around, btw.

The ones I pity are the ones who never stick out their neck for something they believe, never know the taste of moral struggle, and never have the thrill of victory. - Jonathan Kozol
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#132 Old 04-21-2006, 11:25 AM
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Jesus is just all right with me!
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#133 Old 04-21-2006, 11:09 PM
 
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<<<curses pc for putting that song in her head.



Christian rap...oh man.

The ones I pity are the ones who never stick out their neck for something they believe, never know the taste of moral struggle, and never have the thrill of victory. - Jonathan Kozol
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#134 Old 04-21-2006, 11:36 PM
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DC Talk? Went to their concert once.
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#135 Old 04-22-2006, 12:16 AM
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This is a great quote from 2nd Corinthians, part of Paul's declaration of his Apostleship. I find these words to be timeless and yet so ahead of its time when written.



"But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.



For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you may well put up with it."



2 Corinthians II 11:3, 4 KJV
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#136 Old 04-22-2006, 05:10 AM
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I have no idea what that means...

Nec Aspera Terrent
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#137 Old 04-22-2006, 05:27 AM
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I have no idea what that means...



It means if Paul wrote it, then it is a golden and you should live by it!!!



And do not be found getting kicked off a horse in a street named Demascassed. Something like that.
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#138 Old 04-22-2006, 03:20 PM
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Interesting board this is.



If a believer in the Lord "dares" to share their view, everyone points out that he's a Bible thumper, intolerant, ignorant or in-your-face, or will make fun of the Bible, biblical principles or writers of the Bible.. However when others come along and make fun of the Lord, many people will pat that person on the back and chuckle, or join in on the fun.



I just couldn't imagine these same people making "fun", coming along and making fun of vegetarians, animal-rights leaders or some other belief system. In a minute they'd be slammed by everyone else.
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#139 Old 04-22-2006, 03:57 PM
 
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Where do you see that happening in this thread?

The ones I pity are the ones who never stick out their neck for something they believe, never know the taste of moral struggle, and never have the thrill of victory. - Jonathan Kozol
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#140 Old 04-23-2006, 03:05 AM
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I just couldn't imagine these same people making "fun", coming along and making fun of vegetarians, animal-rights leaders or some other belief system. In a minute they'd be slammed by everyone else.



Oh you'd be surprised how much bashing there is of animal rights activists on these boards. There are some vehement anti AR people here.



Vegans are slammed too by vegetarians, and vegetarians are often slammed by vegans.



There are some lovely wars going on at VB. Sometimes the popcorn even runs out.
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#141 Old 04-23-2006, 11:00 AM
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i'm a 'believer' and i've shared my views and never had anyone make fun of me, call me names, tease me, or anything else.
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#142 Old 04-23-2006, 08:22 PM
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I have. It was when I first got here, but now poeple know what I believe and they don't do it anymore.



Look at it like this Sharon. They are standing on their belfiefs so now you stand on yours also. Do let people confuse you or deceive you, so the bible says, with things that are not of Christ (not saying that the people in this thread are are doing that). Just stick to your beliefs and keep reading and studying and the HS will open your eyes even more if you truely want him to. I know. Peace hun.
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#143 Old 04-25-2006, 01:13 PM
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I take it some people in here read LAMB: The Gospol according to Bif by C. Moore? lol
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#144 Old 04-25-2006, 01:38 PM
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I take it some people in here read LAMB: The Gospol according to Bif by C. Moore? lol



I haven't, but people have told me about it.
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#145 Old 04-25-2006, 02:09 PM
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"But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.



2 Corinthians II 11:3, 4 KJV



I say three cheers for the serpent! Crafty? No, just smart! After all, he outsmarted two people who were supposedly made "in the image and likeness of God". That means if they were in his image, they were as smart as God. So that means if the serpent outsmarted God and his Images, he must be have a VERY VERY high IQ.
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#146 Old 04-25-2006, 02:13 PM
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I say three cheers for the serpent! Crafty? No, just smart! After all, he outsmarted two people who were supposedly made "in the image and likeness of God". That means if they were in his image, they were as smart as God. So that means if the serpent outsmarted God and his Images, he must be have a VERY VERY high IQ.

brilliant
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#147 Old 04-26-2006, 02:44 PM
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i have read Lamb: gospel of Biff. Hilarious!
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