how do you feel about families who choose to have 10+ children (biological)? - Page 25 - VeggieBoards
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#721 Old 07-05-2011, 07:30 PM
Veggie Regular
 
roneet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 469
Personally, I find it irresponsible. Realistically, how many people can adequately raise so many children with the necessary financial and emotional support? Plus, with human overpopulation, people should think about having less kids, not more! I'm particularly annoyed when people who know they do not have the means to support the children keep having more and more children!
roneet is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#722 Old 07-06-2011, 05:48 AM
Veggie Regular
 
*AHIMSA*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 10,728
Some of what I read in this thread makes me

"Yes! Live! Life's a banquet and most poor suckers are starving to death!" Auntie Mame
*AHIMSA* is offline  
#723 Old 07-06-2011, 06:37 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Pixie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 5,658
I made it through quite a bit of this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevenseas View Post

I think they should get a new hobby.



Quote:
Originally Posted by lucky_charm View Post

Google World population clock... it's scary...
If everyone in the world who had biological children had only 1 or 2 kids, the world population would stabilise and eventually decline. Having 10+ children is just irresponsible.

I agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roneet View Post

Realistically, how many people can adequately raise so many children with the necessary financial and emotional support?

I don't understand how the average couple could afford to raise 10+ children, especially if the woman is a stay at home Mum. I agree about the issue of adequate emotional support too. My parents were both from big families and it was the case that the older ones took on the role to take care of the younger kids.
Pixie is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#724 Old 07-06-2011, 06:44 AM
Veggie Regular
 
GoGoGoddess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 711
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacefulveglady View Post

Just so you know that something is not broadcasted all around that they do have a few churches helping them with finances and things they actually needs and they swap things with bigger sized families as well. There house was provided by TLC and its a set up for the series even tho its a set up its their own home. They do have some old clothes and some new clothes. Plus you can make your own dresses and skirts to look new as well with fabric that is what the girls are learning as well to make their own clothing.

Exactly. My point was that without outside help they'd never be able to support all those children. If more families did this, how would churches/TV companies etc support them all? Or, to put it another way, WHY should they? Surely it's the responsibility of the parents to ensure they can feed and clother all their own children. My dad was from a large family (it wasn't as big as the Duggar family) and he missed out on a lot when he was growing up, whereas a family with only 2 or 3 children will have much more money/care/attention for those children.

"If you want to know what a man's like, take a good look at how he treats his inferiors, not his equals." -Sirius Black
GoGoGoddess is offline  
#725 Old 07-06-2011, 10:44 AM
Veggie Regular
 
ElaineV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,026
Let's get real here. The title says in parentheses that this is about biological children but in my experience our society doesn't really like large families regardless of how they're created - be they biological, foster, or adopted kids.

I think some of that has to do with values. Right now, our society values a certain parenting style that generally restricts a family to 2-3 kids. That way each kids gets lots of individualized attention from the parent(s). And there is time and money for extracuricular activities like sports or music. And since our preferred method of travel is by car, a family larger than 4-5 simply doesn't fit inside a standard car.

But it's also because most people don't want to get involved in helping out large families. They want and expect the parents to do everything themselves.

I've thought about this issue a lot because of a particular life experience I'm in right now. Could I manage 6 kids? What do I think about someone who wants 8? Do biological siblings always belong together or are smaller families sometimes better? How much value is there in being able to save up for your kids' college? I've thought about all these issues and more. I came to the conclusion that I can handle 3 kids at a time and that's about all (at least right now).

It's really easy to sit and judge large families if you're never in the position of having to decide if you can be a parent to a large group of kiddos.
ElaineV is offline  
#726 Old 07-06-2011, 10:51 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,368
My only issue with people that have large families is the tax issue.
I am a firm believer in not taking deductions outside of personal, I don't claim my daughter as a Dependant.

However, other than one other person that sees it this way, I don't know of any others that don't play the tax game for all its worth.

the more kids you have, the less you pay in tax yet the more you use in services.. think 10 kids, thats half a classroom taken up just by one family.
other than that, they build big houses, have big 15 passenger vans and there is plenty of food on the shelf at the store. If they can afford them, have at it.
Fatman is offline  
#727 Old 07-06-2011, 11:12 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Eonblue462's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,173
To be honest, I've seen the show a few times and they seem to be very well rounded, smart, polite, happy children. In these cases, the more the merrier. In cases where women just pop out one unwanted child after another...not so ok with that. So I guess it all depends on the parents having said children.

Our Generation has had no Great war, no Great Depression. Our war is spiritual. Our depression is our lives.
Eonblue462 is offline  
#728 Old 07-06-2011, 11:21 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Pixie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 5,658
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElaineV View Post

But it's also because most people don't want to get involved in helping out large families. They want and expect the parents to do everything themselves.

I have no problem with paying tax that goes to support poorer families that need it but I don't fancy having to take care of other people's kids. We have used birth control, bought condoms and eventually paid for a vasectomy for my husband so we never had to have the expense of children. If I have any extra money and time from being childfree I want to adopt more cats and other rescue animals.
Pixie is offline  
#729 Old 07-06-2011, 11:25 AM
Veggie Regular
 
unovegan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 8,022
Large families in this day and age has so many more cons than pros. I for one have zero urge to help pay for a large family (which I end up doing anyways). If you dig your grave, lie in it. It's called self sufficiency.

The Big Bad.
unovegan is offline  
#730 Old 07-06-2011, 11:27 AM
Beginner
 
delitebrite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 129
It makes me frown. It doesn't do any good from no matter what angle you look at it (mathematically, psychologically, financially, etc). For one thing, the human species is suffering from serious overpopulation. We don't have enough suitable parents for all the children we have already. Kids who need parents (heeeello, even in Ameruhica) are passed up for the sake of having your "own" baby (I'm a srs advocate for adoption, can you tell?), the only difference being genetics. We have so many people, that we have to destroy natural habitat in order to farm and raise mass quantities of food in order to sustain us! And you think, in spite of that, at least a 1/3 of the human species is starving, anyway. My biology teacher talked about humans not yet having reached carrying capacity. Personally, I don't think we ever will. We'll just continue to tip the scales in our favor, destroying whatever we need to in order to perpetuate our population problem.

Also, people have kids they can't afford. Nearly everyone in America is already in debt, before having kids. And there are people having 18+ kids? I think it was the Duggards I saw on Oprah, and they were perfectly up-front about the fact that they depended on the geneorosity of third-parties to feed and clothe their children. In the case of adoption, if you can't afford meeting the needs of the child, you don't get to adopt it. It's easier for the adoption system to select appropriate parents than it is for DFS to remove children from unsuitable homes. My point being, people can have all these kids without being able to afford to and get away with it. The Duggards also admitted that their older children raise the younger ones. I think that speaks for itself, when you can't even afford the TIME it takes to adequately raise a kid (and parents wonder why they end up with such brats for children).

Not to mention that most of the time, the reasoning is "Well, if God didn't want me to have these children, he'd slip a magical, omnipotent condom on my husband." You know, I have no issue with a belief in God. That's fine. What I can't stand is using your belief as justification to do completely illogical and often harmful things. Believing in God is not an excuse not to make educated decisions. And you know, I REALLY doubt he has enough time in a day to concern himself with your sex-life, anyway. Some people get this mentality like, "If the Bible didn't explicitly tell me to, I'm not." Which is a whole 'nother can of worms in itself, but God not personally telling you to use contraception isn't enough of a reason not to.
delitebrite is offline  
#731 Old 07-06-2011, 11:34 AM
Veggie Regular
 
ElaineV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,026
Quote:
Originally Posted by delitebrite View Post

In the case of adoption, if you can't afford meeting the needs of the child, you don't get to adopt it. It's easier for the adoption system to select appropriate parents than it is for DFS to remove children from unsuitable homes.

You would think that might be the case but actually in order to adopt from fostercare all you have to be able to afford are your own bills. In fact, in some cases DFS would rather place 6 biologically related siblings in one home with a single mom who can only afford her own bills and then give her a stipend to help cover the costs of these kids than divide the siblings into two homes with two parents in each home with incomes that meet or exceed the children's needs. Our society has such a stong value on blood relationships that it actually inhibits adoptions for some needy kids.

And even while saying that all these kids "belong together," people will still act like 6 is too many. They'll chastise the bio mom for having 6 kids she can't care for, yet they won't offer much support to the foster or adoptive parents who care for the 6 kids. I'm telling you, it's insane.
ElaineV is offline  
#732 Old 07-06-2011, 11:41 AM
Beginner
 
delitebrite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElaineV View Post

You would think that might be the case but actually in order to adopt from fostercare all you have to be able to afford are your own bills. In fact, in some cases DFS would rather place 6 biologically related siblings in one home with a single mom who can only afford her own bills and then give her a stipend to help cover the costs of these kids than divide the siblings into two homes with two parents in each home with incomes that meet or exceed the children's needs. Our society has such a stong value on blood relationships that it actually inhibits adoptions for needy kids.

Yes, I know that relatives get preference. I'm speaking more in terms of the kids that end up stuck in the foster care system because no suitable relative can be found, at which point it becomes difficult to get out of the foster care system. As a former foster kid, I'm familiar with ins and outs. I do know that most branches of DFS would sooner drop a kid with an awful relative (or golly forbid, return the kid to their original enviroment) than with a decent family. It's cheaper, it's easier, it's less paper-work. But all the broken things in THAT area are also an entirely 'nother can of worms, lol.
delitebrite is offline  
#733 Old 07-06-2011, 11:54 AM
Veggie Regular
 
ElaineV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,026
Quote:
Originally Posted by delitebrite View Post

Yes, I know that relatives get preference. I'm speaking more in terms of the kids that end up stuck in the foster care system because no suitable relative can be found, at which point it becomes difficult to get out of the foster care system. As a former foster kid, I'm familiar with ins and outs. I do know that most branches of DFS would sooner drop a kid with an awful relative (or golly forbid, return the kid to their original enviroment) than with a decent family. It's cheaper, it's easier, it's less paper-work. But all the broken things in THAT area are also an entirely 'nother can of worms, lol.

I think you misread. The only relatives are the kids.
What I'm saying is that if you want to adopt from fostercare currently, you'll stand a better chance if you sign up to adopt a large sibling group than if you sign up to adopt only the number of kids that you can afford.

What you're talking about is another issue, but that's another example of people who are allowed to adopt the kids but don't have to prove that they can financially provide for the kids. Either way, the point is that right now the system is arranged in such as way as to deter people who have middleclass or upperclass parenting values/styles.
ElaineV is offline  
#734 Old 11-09-2011, 07:16 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Digger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,897
Just when you thought there couldn't possibly be another clown pop out of that car...

Number 20 on the way for the Duggars.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/1...n_1081530.html
Digger is offline  
#735 Old 11-09-2011, 07:29 AM
Impeach the gangster
 
Capstan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 10,052
My aunt Mary and uncle Paul had 10 biological kids. My aunt Winnie and uncle Willie had eleven. Both families operated farms and needed lots of hands to do the chores. All these kids (my cousins) are grown now and many have kids of their own, although not so many. I'm glad they're here.

"There is more wisdom in the song of a bird, than in the speech of a philosopher...." -Oahspe
"The thing is, you cannot judge a race. Any man who judges by the group is a pea-wit. You take men one at a time." -Buster Kilrain, The Killer Angels -Michael Shaara
"Anyone who doesn't believe in miracles isn't a realist." -Billy Wilder
Capstan is online now  
#736 Old 11-09-2011, 09:25 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Digger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,897
I'll be the first to admit that my problem with the Duggars is at least in part rooted in my aversion to fundies. But c'mon people... twenty kids now? Really??? Would people be as supportive if they weren't so very white and photogenic? I don't buy into the whole notion that since 'they can afford them, they can have them'. My neighbor can afford his Hummer and takes very good care of it. That doesn't make it any more environmentally sound.
Digger is offline  
#737 Old 11-09-2011, 10:33 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Forster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,714
Given the world's current population I find having too many biological kids as quite selfish.
Forster is offline  
#738 Old 11-09-2011, 10:46 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Phoenix Days's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,969
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forster View Post

Given the world's current population I find having too many biological kids as quite selfish.

Me too.

DON'T BRING MY MOTHER INTO THIS!
Phoenix Days is offline  
#739 Old 11-09-2011, 11:12 AM
Veggie Regular
 
unovegan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 8,022
Given the world's current population I find having too many biological kids is quite selfish.

The Big Bad.
unovegan is offline  
#740 Old 11-09-2011, 04:35 PM
Veggie Regular
 
kazyeeqen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,595
Quote:
Originally Posted by unovegan View Post

Given the world's current population I find having too many biological kids is quite selfish.

Me too.
kazyeeqen is offline  
#741 Old 11-09-2011, 05:47 PM
Veggie Regular
 
krispex22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Pa, usa
Posts: 961
my grandpa had 15 brothers and sister. note i said grandpa that was in the 20's and 30's. they lived on a farm. now a days its a little ridiculous. when i read about the duggars having another one my jaw dropped. that ladys va j j has to be like huge. number 20 is going to just come walking out and soon there gna run out of j names. the whole family should be put on an island. they would have it filled in no time. the one son already had his first child. so you know hes going to start breeding like a rat soon. the ONLY good thing about is that they can support there children. that doesnt make it ok thats just a good thing about atleast there kids arent starving. but there are way to many people on this planet and these people have an entire town living in there house. i understand there christian beliefs but its time to throw in the towel and get the tubes tied or something. maybe they just cant handle the thought of an empty nest.
krispex22 is offline  
#742 Old 11-09-2011, 06:08 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Midwest, USA
Posts: 1,189
It's horrible, 'cause then you got people who are on the fence about whether to have just one kid, seeing that, and then thinking it's really no big deal to have just one kid if some couples are having 10+ kids. Or couples with one or two on the fence about having 3 or 4 thinking that way too.
Empty_Shell is offline  
#743 Old 11-09-2011, 10:12 PM
Veggie Regular
 
zirpkatze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,408
Quote:
Originally Posted by krispex22 View Post

my grandpa had 15 brothers and sister. note i said grandpa that was in the 20's and 30's. they lived on a farm. now a days its a little ridiculous. when i read about the duggars having another one my jaw dropped. that ladys va j j has to be like huge. number 20 is going to just come walking out and soon there gna run out of j names. the whole family should be put on an island. they would have it filled in no time. the one son already had his first child. so you know hes going to start breeding like a rat soon. the ONLY good thing about is that they can support there children. that doesnt make it ok thats just a good thing about atleast there kids arent starving. but there are way to many people on this planet and these people have an entire town living in there house. i understand there christian beliefs but its time to throw in the towel and get the tubes tied or something. maybe they just cant handle the thought of an empty nest.

the son actually has 2 kids by now
zirpkatze is offline  
#744 Old 11-09-2011, 10:15 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Phoenix Days's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,969
I think if your kids are having kids, then it's a good sign to stop reproducing yourself.

DON'T BRING MY MOTHER INTO THIS!
Phoenix Days is offline  
#745 Old 11-09-2011, 10:30 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix Days View Post

I think if you're kids are having kids, then it's a good sign to stop reproducing yourself.

Beetlejuice is offline  
#746 Old 11-09-2011, 11:25 PM
Newbie
 
Property Is Robbery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 86
That's a huge impact on the environment for one family.

"For as long as men massacre animals, they will kill each other. Indeed, he who sows the seed of murder and pain cannot reap joy and love." -Pythagoras
Property Is Robbery is offline  
#747 Old 11-09-2011, 11:27 PM
Super Moderator
 
Werewolf Girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 16,664
Quote:
Originally Posted by zirpkatze View Post

the son actually has 2 kids by now

See, this is what scares me. If those kids all start breeding at a rate similar to their parents we're going to be overrun with Duggars in a few generations

"If we could live happy and healthy lives without harming others... why wouldn't we?" - Edgars Mission
Werewolf Girl is offline  
#748 Old 11-09-2011, 11:29 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Digger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,897
^^^ They're breeding like Tribbles!
Digger is offline  
#749 Old 11-10-2011, 12:04 AM
Veggie Regular
 
sequoia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 5,299
Many of you know that I will never, ever have biological children. I do not want kids, but if I were to change my mind I'd definitely adopt. So this is going to sound strange...

If I were to start a family and adopt kids, I'd want a ton of them. As in, 10 or more. I suppose it's all or nothing with me.

"If you are lonely when you're alone, you are in bad company."
Jean-Paul Sartre
sequoia is offline  
#750 Old 11-10-2011, 12:15 AM
Super Moderator
 
Werewolf Girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 16,664
Quote:
Originally Posted by sequoia View Post

Many of you know that I will never, ever have biological children. I do not want kids, but if I were to change my mind I'd definitely adopt. So this is going to sound strange...

If I were to start a family and adopt kids, I'd want a ton of them. As in, 10 or more. I suppose it's all or nothing with me.

I understand that perfectly (Well, having 10 kids would drive me NUTS personally but I get the concept )

There's a big difference between having 10 biological kids and 10 adopted kids. The adopted ones already exist and need homes.

"If we could live happy and healthy lives without harming others... why wouldn't we?" - Edgars Mission
Werewolf Girl is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the VeggieBoards forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in


Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off