Indiana Judge prohibits parents from teaching child "non-mainstream" religion - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 05-26-2005, 10:34 AM
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http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...WS01/505260481





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An Indianapolis father is appealing a Marion County judge's unusual order that prohibits him and his ex-wife from exposing their child to "non-mainstream religious beliefs and rituals."



The parents practice Wicca, a contemporary pagan religion that emphasizes a balance in nature and reverence for the earth.



Cale J. Bradford, chief judge of the Marion Superior Court, kept the unusual provision in the couple's divorce decree last year over their fierce objections, court records show. The order does not define a mainstream religion.



Bradford refused to remove the provision after the 9-year-old boy's outraged parents, Thomas E. Jones Jr. and his ex-wife, Tammie U. Bristol, protested last fall.

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#2 Old 05-26-2005, 10:54 AM
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So much for Freedom of Religion
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#3 Old 05-26-2005, 10:56 AM
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#4 Old 05-26-2005, 11:16 AM
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Why is it that whenever a judge hands down a decision like this, I always picture him as a cross between Pat Moynihan and Sheriff Buford T. Justice?







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#5 Old 05-26-2005, 11:18 AM
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wow I mean, of course as a Catholic, I think my religion is the best but still...



All kidding aside, that is scary and wrong
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#6 Old 05-26-2005, 11:29 AM
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Gee! I'm a Christian, and I find this really scarey. Freedom of religion applies to everyone in the U.S. That applies to Indiana too doesn't it? How could he get away with that? It's really confusing.
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#7 Old 05-26-2005, 11:30 AM
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That's infuriating.
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#8 Old 05-26-2005, 12:12 PM
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Oh jeez. (pardon the pun)



Well, fortunately I'm convinced this country hasn't gone TOO FAR down the craphole and that this judgement will get overturned.



Infuriating and scary, though.
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#9 Old 05-26-2005, 12:15 PM
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Isn't paganism older than Christianity?



I guess they can't celebrate christmas then either since it based on the pagan winter solstice.
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#10 Old 05-26-2005, 12:23 PM
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So at school the child is being taught about heaven, hell and the devil, but at home he's taught that the earth is alive and there is no devil? That would be confusing to a child.



The judge seems to have over-reached, however.
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#11 Old 05-26-2005, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delicious View Post

So at school the child is being taught about heaven, hell and the devil, but at home he's taught that the earth is alive and there is no devil? That would be confusing to a child.



The judge seems to have over-reached, however.



Come to think of it, why ARE pagan parents sending their kid to a Catholic school?

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#12 Old 05-26-2005, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delicious View Post

So at school the child is being taught about heaven, hell and the devil, but at home he's taught that the earth is alive and there is no devil? That would be confusing to a child.



The judge seems to have over-reached, however.



Catholic school is not 8 hours a day of sunday school. You take theology classes along with all the other classes. I went to catholic school as an atheist, and my teachers were not even all catholic (my favorite was Jewish.)



Kids are taught conflicting things all the time. Part of growing up is learning how to sort through all the information you're given.
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#13 Old 05-26-2005, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Amy SF View Post

Come to think of it, why ARE pagan parents sending their kid to a Catholic school?



I don't know why parents of any religion would send their kids to Catholic school. My mom sent me, and I hated her for years because of that.
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#14 Old 05-26-2005, 01:31 PM
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I liked Catholic school



*hides
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#15 Old 05-26-2005, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
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Come to think of it, why ARE pagan parents sending their kid to a Catholic school?

In most areas, it's commonly believed private schools are able to give a much better education than public schools (make of this what you will). In most areas, the only private schools are catholic schools.Therefore, if the parents wanted to send thier kid to a private school, Catholic may have been the only choice.
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#16 Old 05-26-2005, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by brownieB26 View Post

In most areas, it's commonly believed private schools are able to give a much better education than public schools (make of this what you will). In most areas, the only private schools are catholic schools.Therefore, if the parents wanted to send thier kid to a private school, Catholic may have been the only choice.



That totally makes sense.

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#17 Old 05-26-2005, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brownieB26 View Post

In most areas, it's commonly believed private schools are able to give a much better education than public schools (make of this what you will). In most areas, the only private schools are catholic schools.Therefore, if the parents wanted to send thier kid to a private school, Catholic may have been the only choice.



Yep, thats why I went. That, and the Catholic school was under $3000 a year (and after scholarships, much much less than that) and the closest private school was almost $10,000!!! We barely squeaked out the extra few hundred a year, so clearly the other school was not an option.
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#18 Old 05-26-2005, 01:55 PM
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It's my opinion that every child should be taught the truth and the truth is that God is the creator of heaven and earth and everything in it. Regardless of the religion, if you are taught the basic truths from the Holy Scriptures then you can't go wrong.
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#19 Old 05-26-2005, 02:05 PM
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Hi kathym ;-) Wiccans do not use the holy scriptures. Do you think that the judge's decision is right?



Edit: I re-read your post ;-) You mean the basic truths from the scriptures, not the scriptures themselves. I would say from my experience with wicca that their basic believes are founded on very different principles, but come to the same conclusions as to the right way to act. Do you think that the judge was right in trying to simplify things for the child, or wrong by trying to determine what religions his parents could teach him?
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#20 Old 05-26-2005, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Satya View Post

Isn't paganism older than Christianity?



I guess they can't celebrate christmas then either since it based on the pagan winter solstice.



Ditto with Easter - ever wonder why Jesus' rebirth is celebrated with eggs and bunnies? It's based on an old spring fertility holiday, Ostara.
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#21 Old 05-26-2005, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by kathym View Post

It's my opinion that every child should be taught the truth and the truth is that God is the creator of heaven and earth and everything in it. Regardless of the religion, if you are taught the basic truths from the Holy Scriptures then you can't go wrong.



That is your *truth* not the truth.
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#22 Old 05-26-2005, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by delicious View Post

That is your *truth* not the truth.



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#23 Old 05-26-2005, 03:41 PM
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it isn't confusing to a child to learn that people have different beliefs. It is what can eventually make a child into a well rounded, tolerant adult who can conseptualize that someone can believe differently than he/she does and not be wrong. I wish I could explain how freeing it is to children to learn that even though Johnny believes differently, he's still okay.



Same goes here about freedom of religion, this is just a terrible judgement. Since the parents both agree on what the religion is and there isn't any conflict, what the hell is the judge doing here?



B
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#24 Old 05-26-2005, 04:10 PM
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[sarcasm] Must have been a liberal judge since all the conservatives seem to be so against judicial activism.[/sarcasm]
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#25 Old 05-26-2005, 04:17 PM
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damn those "activist judges!" (ha! finally I get to use that against conservatives...)



I imagine this ruling will be deemed unconstitutional and the parents will win.
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#26 Old 05-26-2005, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delicious View Post

That is your *truth* not the truth.



Thanks delicious, you took the words right out of my mouth.



As for the judge's ruling, I will let this smiley express my feelings on the matter:
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#27 Old 05-26-2005, 05:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bethanie View Post

it isn't confusing to a child to learn that people have different beliefs. It is what can eventually make a child into a well rounded, tolerant adult who can conseptualize that someone can believe differently than he/she does and not be wrong. I wish I could explain how freeing it is to children to learn that even though Johnny believes differently, he's still okay.

B



Right on



I laughed at the attorney's description of the case being a "slam dunk". Perhaps he forgot that they're in Indiana, a strange and unusual place.

The ones I pity are the ones who never stick out their neck for something they believe, never know the taste of moral struggle, and never have the thrill of victory. - Jonathan Kozol
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#28 Old 05-26-2005, 06:29 PM
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Indiana *is* a strange and unusual place. Perhaps he was making a joke on Indiana's favorite pastime (basketball -- or rather, sitting around drinking beer while others play basketball)



It's clearly unconstitutional and I hope it will be swiftly overturned. But I am not a bit surprised by the judge's ruling.
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#29 Old 05-26-2005, 06:31 PM
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Wicca is kinda mainstream, by neopagan standards....
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#30 Old 05-26-2005, 07:29 PM
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freedom of religion my arse.
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