Love for a human child vs. love for a companion animal - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 04-12-2005, 11:20 AM
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Last night I was reading the following thread in the Companion Animals forum: https://www.veggieboards.com/boards/s...ad.php?t=35721



The OP's original question was how best to transport her cats from HI to MD.



I'll quote the parts of the thread that I would like to discuss:



Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony11 View Post

If the person in the seat next to you is allergic to cats, they're going to have a long, miserable flight.



Given the conditions and stress of flying, I might suggest finding them a good home in Hawaii, and adopting anew when you get to your new home.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiz View Post

Yeah... becasue animals are just replacable, right? Would you say that to someone with kids? I mean... kids are way more annoying than cats of a flight. Cat's aren't really luggage, either. I mean, would you just shove an annoying friend in the cargo hold?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorful View Post

As both a lifelong cat owner and a parent, I can safely say that giving away an animal and giving away a child are such entirely different things, you cannot even begin to compare the two. Finding a new home for a pet can sometimes be the best and least traumatic thing for them, provided it's a good home.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiz View Post

I hate it when people trot out the tired old "well, I popped it out my vagina so I must love it more than you who haven't". Human parents do not have a moritorium on affection, you know.



Quote:
Originally Posted by hazardbliss View Post

Well, as a mother and as a caretaker of two cats, I must say, I love my cat's dearly. They are my family, and I sacrifice and worry about them just as much as I do my own child. I know that may sound crazy to some, but that's just the way I feel.



After reading this last night, I didn't even know how to respond. I love my kitty dearly, but it does not even compare, not even close, to the love that I have for my son. However, when I stated that (or similar to that) in the thread, it was refuted and nobody batted an eye!



Personally, I think it's a little extreme to say that the love for a companion animal is the same as the love for one's child. And it has nothing to do with biology, IMO - I know several adoptive parents who love their children just as much as I love mine. But I do think the human parent-child connection is just so much greater than the human-pet connection.



Thoughts?
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#2 Old 04-12-2005, 11:24 AM
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I know personally I love my cats more than I could ever love a human child. I hate children. They annoy the crap out of me. I have no human-maternal instincts and I don't care. My life is enriched my my cats whether I squatted them out of me or not.
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#3 Old 04-12-2005, 11:29 AM
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I couldn't tell you. I don't have children that I've birthed. I do love my dog though. So, I'm not qualified to give an opinion.



I can tell you though, that I am allergic to cats and if one gets within touching distance of me I am totally miserable. I wouldn't be able to sit on a plane next to one. Either myself of the cat and owner would have to sit in different locations of the plane.
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#4 Old 04-12-2005, 11:32 AM
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No one can know what another person feels. We can't know what another person's degree of love is compared to one's own.



Why compare?
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#5 Old 04-12-2005, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colorful View Post

After reading this last night, I didn't even know how to respond. I love my kitty dearly, but it does not even compare, not even close, to the love that I have for my son. However, when I stated that (or similar to that) in the thread, it was refuted and nobody batted an eye!



Personally, I think it's a little extreme to say that the love for a companion animal is the same as the love for one's child. And it has nothing to do with biology, IMO - I know several adoptive parents who love their children just as much as I love mine. But I do think the human parent-child connection is just so much greater than the human-pet connection.



Thoughts?



I know I'll get slammed for this - but I agree completely.



I love my pets a great deal. I have laughed over their antics, cried over their injuries, illnesses and deaths. I have gone to great lengths to care for them in difficult situations where others would have (and did) recommend putting them down. I have offered comfort to them and received comfort in return. I even believe that they love me (so far as they are capable).



But the truth remains that I love my parents, my husband and my child more than I love my pets.



In regard to the flying issue - I would probably find my animals a loving home rather than subject them to the stress of a long airline flight. Not because I don't love them or because they are "replaceable" but because they have a very limited ability to comprehend the reasons for their discomfort or suffering. The stress of travel is very significant for companion animals and I would deem it too harsh to subject them to that much air travel.



Many have been offended by the idea that someone could love a human being more than we love animals and are upset or even outraged by the offensiveness of the comments. Yet those peole think nothing of trotting out statements like:



Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiz



I hate it when people trot out the tired old "well, I popped it out my vagina so I must love it more than you who haven't". Human parents do not have a moritorium on affection, you know.



or



Quote:
Originally Posted by vggiegirl



I know personally I love my cats more than I could ever love a human child. I hate children. They annoy the crap out of me. I have no human-maternal instincts and I don't care. My life is enriched my my cats whether I squatted them out of me or not.



With no regard for how offensive your statements may be.



I assume that means that some of us are to walk on eggshells fearful of offending anyone while we are slammed and insulted with impunity?



Typical.



Sorry folks. But animals are animals. I love my furbabies and will go to great lengths for them. But in the final analysis I would get rid of my dog, cats or gerbils before I'd get rid of my husband, child or parents. And I only "popped" one of those "out my vagina".



And if that offends you... so what. You're comments offended me and I'm pretty sure you don't care at all about that so why should I care if I offend you?

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#6 Old 04-12-2005, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vggiegirl View Post

I know personally I love my cats more than I could ever love a human child. I hate children. They annoy the crap out of me. I have no human-maternal instincts and I don't care. My life is enriched my my cats whether I squatted them out of me or not.



I agree.





I understand parents have unconditional love for their children. Just don't tell me how I *should* feel about my pets.
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#7 Old 04-12-2005, 11:40 AM
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I don't have children. I have 3 cats, two of which I raised from kittenhood. I love my cats unconditionally and would, and have, jump in front of a moving car to protect them. I know in my heart that I would love a child of mine just as much. I wouldn't think of giving up my cats anymore than I would consider giving up my child. Love is love. I think both the human-child connection and the human-pet connection can be equal, like hazardbliss states. I don't understand why anyone would have to choose one over the other.
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#8 Old 04-12-2005, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfie View Post

I agree.





I understand parents have unconditional love for their children. Just don't tell me how I *should* feel about my pets.



I won't tell you how you should feel about your pets if you don't tell me how I should feel about my pets or my family.



Any time anyone here even so much as hints that they might put the lives and well being of their human family before the well being of their furry family they get jumped on for not loving animals enough or for being speciesist or whatever offensive and abrasive comment they can think of.



I'm not telling anyone how to feel about their animals. But don't jump on my case because when push comes to shove my animals are not as important to me as my husband and child.

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#9 Old 04-12-2005, 11:42 AM
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I don't have kids of my own, but I am a very proud auntie to my (brand new!!) niece and my 3.5 year old nephew.



I love my cats and dogs to pieces, but I'd find new homes for all of them if it somehow meant saving my niece or nephew. (Like if I somehow ended up their guardian and they were terribly allergic)



I feel a little guilty saying that, but...it's the truth. I consider my pets to be my children more often than not, but there is something fundamentally different about my little niece and nephew that would make me protect them at all costs.
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#10 Old 04-12-2005, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MollyCat View Post

I don't understand why anyone would have to choose one over the other.



Okay here's a scenario where a choice would have to be made.



Your child is allergic to cats and develops asthma. Keeping the cats is literally a hazard to your child's health. And before you scoff there have been plenty of times that parents have been faced with the necessity of finding a new home for a beloved pet because of a child's illness.



So do you find a new loving home for the cats? Or do you just say, "Oh too bad. The kid will just have to live with being sick because I love my cats as much as I love him." ?

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#11 Old 04-12-2005, 11:44 AM
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I love my animal companions. I love my son. I would NEVER give up responsibilty for my animals due to moving or convienance or anything like that. In fact, I would NEVER give them up for anyreason. They are my family. Just like my son. I love them both (all). Yes, I do love my own child differently. But, that doesn't lesson my love for my animals either.
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#12 Old 04-12-2005, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsKey View Post


Sorry folks. But animals are animals. I love my furbabies and will go to great lengths for them. But in the final analysis I would get rid of my dog, cats or gerbils before I'd get rid of my husband, child or parents. And I only "popped" one of those "out my vagina".



And if that offends you... so what. You're comments offended me and I'm pretty sure you don't care at all about that so why should I care if I offend you?





I don't find it offensive you feel that way. I just find it offensive when people expect me to feel that way, just because they do.
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#13 Old 04-12-2005, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfie View Post

I don't find it offensive you feel that way. I just find it offensive when people expect me to feel that way, just because they do.



I don't expect you (or anyone) to feel the way I do.



What I expect is to have my feelings (which are compeletely subjective) treated with respect and not be bashed, called names or subjected to disgusting and vulgar terms for child birth just because I dare to love my child more than I love my dog.



Sadly though, that doesn't happen a whole lot around here.

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#14 Old 04-12-2005, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsKey View Post

Okay here's a scenario where a choice would have to be made.



Your child is allergic to cats and develops asthma. Keeping the cats is literally a hazard to your child's health. And before you scoff there have been plenty of times that parents have been faced with the necessity of finding a new home for a beloved pet because of a child's illness.



So do you find a new loving home for the cats? Or do you just say, "Oh too bad. The kid will just have to live with being sick because I love my cats as much as I love him." ?



I would find a good home for the cats in this situation. I would cry my eyes out though, but I can't subject the person to something that is going to cause them sickness continually in their own home.
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#15 Old 04-12-2005, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsKey View Post

Okay here's a scenario where a choice would have to be made.



Your child is allergic to cats and develops asthma. Keeping the cats is literally a hazard to your child's health. And before you scoff there have been plenty of times that parents have been faced with the necessity of finding a new home for a beloved pet because of a child's illness.



So do you find a new loving home for the cats? Or do you just say, "Oh too bad. The kid will just have to live with being sick because I love my cats as much as I love him." ?





Only speaking from my personal experience, so don't jump down my throat.

But this scenario just doesn't apply to everyone, as not every woman chooses to breed. So this will never happen to me.
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#16 Old 04-12-2005, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colorful View Post

I love my kitty dearly, but it does not even compare, not even close, to the love that I have for my son. However, when I stated that (or similar to that) in the thread, it was refuted



It was refuted that you love your son more than your kitty? I find this hard to believe, so I assume you are talking about something else.

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#17 Old 04-12-2005, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edamommy View Post

I love my animal companions. I love my son. I would NEVER give up responsibilty for my animals due to moving or convienance or anything like that. In fact, I would NEVER give them up for anyreason. They are my family. Just like my son. I love them both (all). Yes, I do love my own child differently. But, that doesn't lesson my love for my animals either.



So if you had a child with an illness that necessitated not being exposed to cat dander or dog hair you would keep the animals inspite of the threat to your child's health?

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#18 Old 04-12-2005, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsKey View Post

So if you had a child with an illness that necessitated not being exposed to cat dander or dog hair you would keep the animals inspite of the threat to your child's health?





Ummmm or allergy shots
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#19 Old 04-12-2005, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vggiegirl View Post

Only speaking from my personal experience, so don't jump down my throat.

But this scenario just doesn't apply to everyone, as not every woman chooses to breed. So this will never happen to me.



First - This question/scenario wasn't directed at you but to the person I quoted in the message.



Second - See that "chooses to breed" is offensive. I had a child with my husband because we wanted to have a family together. Calling it "breeding" is offensive to me because it puts me on the same level as dogs who are bred by breeders to make money. A practice which I find objectionalbe and with which being compared makes me nauseaus.



But you don't care if you are offensive. In fact I bet you word it that way in order to be offensive.



So before you get your knickers in a knot over something that wasn't even directed at you and worried about how offensive I was toward you ... check your own posts and attitude.

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#20 Old 04-12-2005, 11:56 AM
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I think it is personal choice. Some people find your values as off putting as you find theirs. And even if the bond with a human child is stronger, I'm not sure that is justification for leaving cats behind when moving, which is how it was being used in that thread.
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#21 Old 04-12-2005, 11:57 AM
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Quite obviously those of us who either choose not to, or are incapable of, having human children are some how less capable of giving love. Riiiiiiight.

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#22 Old 04-12-2005, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
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So before you get your knickers in a knot over something that wasn't even directed at you and worried about how offensive I was toward you ... check your own posts and attitude.





First of all missy, I'm not wearing any knickers to knot up. Second of all, I am not as thin skinned and sensitive as you about wordings of posts.

Third, being a public internet forum, if you only wanted one person to answer, perhaps you should take it to PM. Fourth, I didn't say breed to impress you. It's how I see birthing and if you don't like it, tough.
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#23 Old 04-12-2005, 11:59 AM
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Ummmm or allergy shots



Vggiegirl -



Some allergies are too severe for treatment with allergy shots.



I have a friend who is so allergic to cats that exposure to cat hair in my home for less than 5 minutes once sent her into anaphylactic shock. Her mom had to use give her a shot of epi and then she was hospitalized for 3 days.



The kicker is that she knew she had a life threatening allergy to peanuts so that's why they carried the epi pen. She didn't know she was allergic to cats until her exposure at my house.



So I suppose you would just let her die so you could keep your cats?

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#24 Old 04-12-2005, 12:00 PM
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MrsKey, please don't lump me in with others who have ridiculed or attacked your point of view. I am not one of them. I didn't 'scoff' at your scenario.

To answer your question, I'm not really sure what I would do. I know that I wouldn't give up my pet because of a long plane ride, because my boyfriend didn't like them, because one peed on the carpet or scratched up my furniture. I'm sure I would look into all the options (ie Hepafilter, medication, keeping the cats in part of the house away from my child) before I had to make such a drastic decision.

But this post is about feeling connection and love for a furkid as opposed to a human child. I still believe that the love is the same...for some people. Others differentiate between pet love and child love. I don't.
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#25 Old 04-12-2005, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsKey View Post

So if you had a child with an illness that necessitated not being exposed to cat dander or dog hair you would keep the animals inspite of the threat to your child's health?



Actually, recent studies have shown that a kid that grows up with a dog or cat in the home is *less* likely to have asthma.



I do know a woman who was severely allergic to pet hair and took meds and injections over getting rid of her dog.



Anyway, like veggiegirl said, it will never be an issue for me. I don't want kids and I wouldn't want any poor kid to have me as a mother.
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#26 Old 04-12-2005, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsKey View Post

Vggiegirl -



Some allergies are too severe for treatment with allergy shots.



I have a friend who is so allergic to cats that exposure to cat hair in my home for less than 5 minutes once sent her into anaphylactic shock. Her mom had to use give her a shot of epi and then she was hospitalized for 3 days.



The kicker is that she knew she had a life threatening allergy to peanuts so that's why they carried the epi pen. She didn't know she was allergic to cats until her exposure at my house.



So I suppose you would just let her die so you could keep your cats?



I would meet at her house or at a bar, rather than let her in my house if it was that bad. It's not that hard...What does a friend's allergy have to do with keeping cats. So she has a violent reaction, I'm supposed to pitch the cats in the dumpster? No, I would take care of her situation, take her to the hospital, and in the future, meet elsewhere.
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#27 Old 04-12-2005, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiz View Post

Quite obviously those of us who either choose not to, or are incapable of, having human children are some how less capable of giving love. Riiiiiiight.



Kiz -



No one has said thatt youa re less capable of giving love. Just refuting the idea that it is somehow wrong or evil to love a human child more than one loves their animals.



I didn't think I would love my human child more than I loved my furbabies until after I had my daughter. That unexpected but very pleasant event changed things for me.



I was more than capable of giving love before I had children and I am just as capable now. My priorities have shifted a bit.



But I get tired of seeing people who have children portrayed as some evil, heartless or cruel being just because they may love their kids more than their animals.

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#28 Old 04-12-2005, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colorful View Post

Personally, I think it's a little extreme to say that the love for a companion animal is the same as the love for one's child. And it has nothing to do with biology, IMO - I know several adoptive parents who love their children just as much as I love mine. But I do think the human parent-child connection is just so much greater than the human-pet connection.



Thoughts?

I don't think it's extreme at all. Who we love, why we love and how much we love are all very personal, meaning that it varies from individual to individual. I don't have children yet, but I love children and I'm a very emotional, passionate person and can imagine the love for a child. But I adore every little hair on my kitties body. Everytime I see any of my animals I feel the need to pick them up and kiss thier little faces. I know without a doubt that when & if I'm blessed with a child, my love for my furry babies won't change and won't be eclipsed by the human child. For me it would be the same as a parent favoring one sibling over the other.
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#29 Old 04-12-2005, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsKey View Post

I don't expect you (or anyone) to feel the way I do.



ok, but that doesn't really come across in this statement:



Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsKey View Post

Sorry folks. But animals are animals.



That's your view on it, and you're entitled to it. But you state it as though it's a reality for everyone, an indisputable fact, that animals are not really deserving of the same consideration as humans. For you maybe, and that's your choice, but for the some of us there is little, if any, difference in how we regard an animal companion versus a human.



Quote:
Originally Posted by MsKey View Post

Any time anyone here even so much as hints that they might put the lives and well being of their human family before the well being of their furry family they get jumped on for not loving animals enough or for being speciesist or whatever offensive and abrasive comment they can think of.



I have posted here for two years and I don't recall seeing that.
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#30 Old 04-12-2005, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevenseas View Post

It was refuted that you love your son more than your kitty? I find this hard to believe, so I assume you are talking about something else.



When I said "refuted" I was referring to this post:



Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiz View Post

I hate it when people trot out the tired old "well, I popped it out my vagina so I must love it more than you who haven't". Human parents do not have a moritorium on affection, you know.



And not specifically that loving my son more than my cat was refuted. It was more my saying that "finding a new home for a child vs. finding a new home for a cat are entirely different things" that was refuted. Hope that clarifies things.
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