Politics - VeggieBoards
View Poll Results: What political party
Democratic 0 0%
Green 0 0%
Liberal 0 0%
Republican 0 0%
Any others I may have missed 0 0%
Voters: 0. You may not vote on this poll

Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#1 Old 05-25-2003, 07:26 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Muzicfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 1,705
What party are you currently
Muzicfan is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 Old 05-25-2003, 12:57 PM
Banned
 
Epinephrine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,807
i'd pick green, but they're mysteriously absent from the current mayoral campaign. so liberal it is.
Epinephrine is offline  
#3 Old 05-25-2003, 12:59 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Muzicfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 1,705
very good...
Muzicfan is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#4 Old 05-25-2003, 02:15 PM
Newbie
 
GhostUser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 0
What the flock is the "Liberal" party? I'm an independent with strong Constitutional leanings. Would prefer to see a system of laws based more on if it doesn't cause physical or financial harm, no problem.



Republicans are sexual introverts.

Democrats are socialist *******s.

Greens are chicken littles.
GhostUser is offline  
#5 Old 05-25-2003, 03:19 PM
Veggie Regular
 
ebola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,590
I am an anarchist.

I do not believe in the efficacy of party politics as a means to foster positive change. The nation-state exists as a tool for the ruling class to weild its power.



>>Republicans are sexual introverts.>>



I'm not sure if I want to comment on that.



>>Democrats are socialist *******s.>>



If there are any socialists here, you've pissed them off.



>>Greens are chicken littles.>>



Maybe that's cause the sky really is f*cking falling!



ebola

ps: Muzicfan, did you see my thread on roughly the same topic? If not, I can link it for you.
ebola is offline  
#6 Old 05-25-2003, 11:12 PM
Newbie
 
GhostUser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 0
Quote:
>>Republicans are sexual introverts.>>



I'm not sure if I want to comment on that.



I will. They're scared of homosexuals, transexuals, and even us heterosexual folk enjoying oral or anal sex. They haven't got the balls to legalize prostitution. They want to eliminate abortion instead of creating solutions for the causes of abortion.



Then they're also too beholden to the christian taliban to recognize all marriages.



Quote:
>>Democrats are socialist *******s.>>



If there are any socialists here, you've pissed them off.



Shouldn't, Democrats are their best friends. There is no reason anyone should have to work if the Democrats ran everything as they would just tax the hell out of you if you worked and give handouts to everyone that didn't.



Quote:
>>Greens are chicken littles.>>



Maybe that's cause the sky really is f*cking falling!



Not yet it isn't. The "greens" could actually do the most good by integrating themselves into both of the major parties and working from within. Of course then they would have to learn and practice something called "compromise". You just can't willy-nilly impose all kinds of changes without paying attention to what the financial effects will be on Joe Blow.
GhostUser is offline  
#7 Old 05-25-2003, 11:14 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Muzicfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 1,705
No, I did not see the thread
Muzicfan is offline  
#8 Old 05-26-2003, 12:25 AM
Veggie Regular
 
epski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 12,374
Quote:
Originally posted by ebola

>>Greens are chicken littles.>>



Maybe that's cause the sky really is f*cking falling!



Maybe? LOL
epski is offline  
#9 Old 05-27-2003, 12:19 AM
Veggie Regular
 
ebola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,590
political ideology survey:

https://www.veggieboards.com/boards/s...&threadid=4715



let's hope this works...

more comments to follow. . .
ebola is offline  
#10 Old 05-27-2003, 01:37 AM
Veggie Regular
 
ebola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,590
>>BartMar>>



If you haven't already, please look into the American Libertarian party. I bet you'd like them a lot.



>>I will. They're scared of homosexuals, transexuals, and even us heterosexual folk enjoying oral or anal sex. They haven't got the balls to legalize prostitution. They want to eliminate abortion instead of creating solutions for the causes of abortion.



Then they're also too beholden to the christian taliban to recognize all marriages.>>



You're right on this count.



>>Shouldn't, Democrats are their best friends. There is no reason anyone should have to work if the Democrats ran everything as they would just tax the hell out of you if you worked and give handouts to everyone that didn't.

>>



Yeah, right. The democrats, like the republicans, are a political strategy of the ruling class. The democrats' strategy is to offer small concessions to working people so as to stave off revolt in the long term whereas the republicans serve business interests in the short term. The results are largely the same.



>>Not yet it isn't. The "greens" could actually do the most good by integrating themselves into both of the major parties and working from within. Of course then they would have to learn and practice something called "compromise". You just can't willy-nilly impose all kinds of changes without paying attention to what the financial effects will be on Joe Blow.>>



You're right in that there is something to be said for pragmatics. On the other hand, it's my opinion that the looming environmental crisis cannot be averted so long as capitalism is still in place.



ebola
ebola is offline  
#11 Old 05-27-2003, 07:56 AM
Newbie
 
GhostUser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 0
Indeed, Bart, look into Libertarianism. They're Republicans without the Religious Right, and Democrats without all that taxation. Unfortunately, their whole philosophy is based upon less government and more personal responsibility, so until they get a dose of reality they probably won't get elected to government in mass numbers any time soon.



If I fall into any political category it would be Libertarian, but most Libertarians would think I'm liberal. I DO believe that all people, especially members of wealthy (ie. wasteful) nations have a very real obligation to consider the environment valuable and to act accordingly. As ebola said, though, capitalism thwarts this ethic at its root, and I am willing to give the gov't control over the environment in addition to its other duties listed in the US Constitution. But a lot of the stuff the gov't does would be better left to private industry. Education, health care, utilities, and most charity (though there does need to be some gov't run charity, it should be tightly regulated to avoid fraud and abuse. Private charities are insufficient, and lack of money = lack of freedoms and opportunities. If this is a free country, we need to provide for those truly down on their luck.) should be privatized.



In spite of my spewing of political opinion above, I'm not terribly political. I'm still learning, I'm not set in my political opinions.
GhostUser is offline  
#12 Old 05-27-2003, 09:09 AM
Banned
 
kirkjobsluder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,276
Quote:
Originally posted by BartMar

Not yet it isn't. The "greens" could actually do the most good by integrating themselves into both of the major parties and working from within. Of course then they would have to learn and practice something called "compromise". You just can't willy-nilly impose all kinds of changes without paying attention to what the financial effects will be on Joe Blow.



Well, there is a problem in that "compromise" is a bit like a potluck. Both sides come to the table with something and walk away with something that may not be their heart's desire but is still satisfying enough for now. Demanding something without bringing anything to the table is not compromise. Part of why the Gore campaign lost was because it demanded votes, without offering anything in return on key issues such as the WTO.



The biggest problem with libertarianism is that they are so paranoid about the men in black taking away their liberties, that they forget that massive consolidation of corporate power can also deprive people of their liberties.
kirkjobsluder is offline  
#13 Old 05-28-2003, 08:48 AM
Newbie
 
GhostUser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 0
Actually, massive consolidation of corporate power can certainly limit your options, but how can it deprive you of your liberties? Corporations can't throw you in jail for not paying your taxes. They can't use your money in ways you disapprove and if they do you can simply stop contributing to them. And massive corporations cannot stop the little guy from competing for your business if indeed the little guy is what the consumer wants.



IF (and I say IF) massive corporations can take away your liberties, they give them back in other ways. We already know from experience that governments can be oppressive...
GhostUser is offline  
#14 Old 05-29-2003, 02:16 PM
Veggie Regular
 
veganinohio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,645
BartMar make me laugh.



He funny.
veganinohio is offline  
#15 Old 05-29-2003, 02:37 PM
Veggie Regular
 
ebola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,590
>>Actually, massive consolidation of corporate power can certainly limit your options, but how can it deprive you of your liberties? >>



1. Because the vast majority of wealth and nearly all of the means of production are tied up in corporations, ordinary people are forced to work for others for wages. The labor of the worker is no longer under his or her control, and the worker no longer has the opportunity to enjoy the fruits of his or her labor. Work changes from creative self-expression to a tedious rat-race. This constitutes a loss of freedom.

2. When oligopy is the norm, not the exception, our choices as consumers become very limited, as is the case with our political system in the USA. boycott becomes ineffective.



ebola
ebola is offline  
#16 Old 05-29-2003, 07:24 PM
Veggie Regular
 
epski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 12,374
And with continued de-regulation, it's only going to get worse. All hail Rupert Murdoch.
epski is offline  
#17 Old 06-03-2003, 10:07 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Beancounter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 3,339
other....independent

Happiness is not the result of a mathematical equation comparing the good times and bad times someone has had. It is a state of mind.
-nomad888
Beancounter is offline  
#18 Old 06-04-2003, 12:24 AM
Banned
 
Tame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 13,022
Quote:
Originally posted by ebola

>>Actually, massive consolidation of corporate power can certainly limit your options, but how can it deprive you of your liberties? >>



1. Because the vast majority of wealth and nearly all of the means of production are tied up in corporations, ordinary people are forced to work for others for wages. The labor of the worker is no longer under his or her control, and the worker no longer has the opportunity to enjoy the fruits of his or her labor. Work changes from creative self-expression to a tedious rat-race. This constitutes a loss of freedom.

2. When oligopy is the norm, not the exception, our choices as consumers become very limited, as is the case with our political system in the USA. boycott becomes ineffective.



ebola



Nonsense. "Work" has never been for selx-expression as a whole - it has been for survival. Hunter-gatherers didn't dig roots and spear gazelles to show off artistic abilities.

Corporations or not, most people would end up working for someone else, as most aren't bright enough to tell their behind from a hole in the ground.

Also, even with large multinational corporations, choices for consumers are growing. Look around.
Tame is offline  
#19 Old 06-04-2003, 08:53 AM
Newbie
 
GhostUser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 0
I'm conservative. Glad to see I'm not the only one here. I'm not sure when "Republican" ended up being the same as "conservative" - I for one do not always vote Republican.



Yeah, I don't believe in abortion, and I don't agree with homosexuality. If that makes me a sexual introvert, so be it - those opinions are based on my religious beliefs. I do differ with the GOP on the drug war. I consider it a massive waste of money and people's lives. Welfare is a joke and needs serious reform or abolition. For many issues, I believe that less government intervention is best. If people can't take care of themselves or make responsible decisions, then that's their problem...my tax dollars should not go towards perpetuating laziness and irresponsibility.
GhostUser is offline  
#20 Old 06-04-2003, 12:15 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Thalia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 6,902
I want to add, that we have people here from all over the world and party names mean different things in diff countries. If anyone from outside of the US would like to add a selection or clarification to the poll, I can modify it, with Muzicfans consent.
Thalia is offline  
#21 Old 06-04-2003, 12:30 PM
Veggie Regular
 
ebola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,590
>>Nonsense. "Work" has never been for selx-expression as a whole - it has been for survival. Hunter-gatherers didn't dig roots and spear gazelles to show off artistic abilities.

>>



You're right in that work has always been useful, a means for survival. Nevertheless, the fact remains that the alienated working conditions brought about by capitalism (and the processes preeceding throughout history) have altered the character of this work. No longer are we able to work for our own ends in the manner we see fit, choosing what we do, how we do it, and why. Rather, the worker is "free" in that he or she is able to choose an employer and be paid a paltry sum for his or her toil. As slaves, we are free in that we get to choose a master. The worker is alienated from both the fruits and process of his or her labor in a manner that is unique to capitalism.



>>Corporations or not, most people would end up working for someone else, as most aren't bright enough to tell their behind from a hole in the ground.>>



This is where we differ. I think most people are competently intelligent. I haven't been given reason to think otherwise (except for the high incidence of frat-boys around here, but they're not exactly doing to poorly in economic terms, are they? )



>>Also, even with large multinational corporations, choices for consumers are growing. Look around. >>



Yes, you're right in that we are free to choose amongst 30 different kinds of soda. However, we are not free to purchase products produced by companies that do not exploit their labor or destroy the environment.



ebola
ebola is offline  
#22 Old 06-04-2003, 01:15 PM
Veggie Regular
 
catmorrison's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 524
Quote:
Yes, you're right in that we are free to choose amongst 30 different kinds of soda. However, we are not free to purchase products produced by companies that do not exploit their labor or destroy the environment.



We're not?

As far as exploitation, defined typically as :

"The act of employing to the greatest possible advantage: "

I think we might all exploit, to a certain degree.

Even the simple example of how an athelete exploits our desire to watch and PAY for, his sport.

Expoitation is both relative and subjective, IMHO.



The migrant farmers who work the fields where I live and work, might perceive exploitation as opportunity, compared to their alternatives (or lack, thereof) in Mexico.

Actually I see little opposition these days, to our cheap veggie prices.
catmorrison is offline  
#23 Old 06-04-2003, 03:44 PM
Veggie Regular
 
ebola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,590
>>We're not?>>



No.

1. An oligopy of firms limits the options available.

2. The limited budgets in which we must sustain ourselves coerce us to purchase the cheapest goods among the available options. It turns out that these goods are produced through the the exploitation of third-world peoples and necessitate the continual degredation of their lives.



For the purpose of this conversation, I'm going to define exploitation as the appropriation of that which belongs to another, is a part of another's being. You're right in that it is a subjective judgement, but we can still judge the effects of what we deem to be a form of exploitation and decide if we like these effects.



>>The migrant farmers who work the fields where I live and work, might perceive exploitation as opportunity, compared to their alternatives (or lack, thereof) in Mexico.>>



And its a sad state of affairs indeed when the global economic system has turned systematic exploitation of working peoples into an "opportunity".



>>Actually I see little opposition these days, to our cheap veggie prices.>>



I am opposed when the human costs of the cheap prices we enjoy are so high.



ebola
ebola is offline  
#24 Old 06-04-2003, 04:27 PM
Veggie Regular
 
catmorrison's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 524
Quote:
However, we are not free to purchase products produced by companies that do not exploit their labor or destroy the environment.

I responded

"We're not?"



Then you said

"No.

1. An oligopy of firms limits the options available.



I understand *limits* but that isn't in your statement that I originally replied to.





Do you see *violating human rights* the same as exploitation?



I would see them as different.



Quote:
And its a sad state of affairs indeed when the global economic system has turned systematic exploitation of working peoples into an "opportunity".



So, which value is valid? Yours>>>> of what you perceive as exploitation,

or>>>>> the migrant worker who perceives working in the veggie fields as an opportunity, compared with his alternatives?



Trust me, free health care and education, in California, is reason alone to attract people here.
catmorrison is offline  
#25 Old 06-06-2003, 12:30 PM
Veggie Regular
 
ebola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,590
>>Do you see *violating human rights* the same as exploitation?



I would see them as different.



>>



It really depends on what these rights are and to what ends they are violated. I would argue that, in most cases, violation of human rights is a moment of exploitation.



>>So, which value is valid? Yours>>>> of what you perceive as exploitation,

or>>>>> the migrant worker who perceives working in the veggie fields as an opportunity, compared with his alternatives?>>



I'd say the two opinions are equally valid, but oriented differently. This hypothetical migrant worker is just trying to get by in the existing system while I am critiquing the current system.



ebola
ebola is offline  
#26 Old 06-18-2003, 12:56 PM
Newbie
 
GhostUser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 0
(Democrats are socialist *******s)



whoever said this i would like to know what makes a socialist a basterd.
GhostUser is offline  
#27 Old 06-18-2003, 05:16 PM
Banned
 
bennotbombs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 123
i support the extinction of human kind
bennotbombs is offline  
#28 Old 06-18-2003, 05:46 PM
Veggie Regular
 
epski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 12,374
You and Kurm should start a club.
epski is offline  
#29 Old 06-20-2003, 03:44 PM
Veggie Regular
 
SystmDwnGrl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,992
Socialist
SystmDwnGrl is offline  
#30 Old 06-20-2003, 05:28 PM
Banned
 
Tame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 13,022
Quote:
Originally posted by bennotbombs

i support the extinction of human kind



Okay. You go first.
Tame is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the VeggieBoards forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in


Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off