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-   -   Can someone explain this???? [Double standards reguarding food] (https://www.veggieboards.com/forum/17-compost-heap/24866-can-someone-explain-double-standards-reguarding-food.html)

SquarePeg 11-24-2004 12:56 PM

I've been debating with someone regarding the banning of trans-fats in food products.



Now this person is all for banning trans-fats because they "aren't healthy" and "everyone has to eat". Thus banning the use of trans-fats in food production is good because it isn't healthy.



But then when asked about meat and diary she defends meat and dairy as "healthy"?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!



Quote:
I happen to think meats that are sources of lean protein is VERY healthy. So of course I don't think they should be banned.



Quote:
Dairy in moderation is not necessarily UNhealthy- in fact, studies have proved that people who include good dairy products in their diet (skim milk and fat free yoghurt) actually weigh LESS than people who eschew dairy altogether. So how is that bad?



Make this make sense to me - please.



How can you think the gov't banning TFAs is good because people will be healthier (yeah 'cause no one will over eat if they can't get junkfood made with TFAs 'cause only TFAs are bad for you) and then go on to defend meat and dairy products which are nothing but transfer vehicles for anti-biotics, hormones, saturated fats, etc.



Help. How does this stance make any logical sense???

rincaro 11-24-2004 01:05 PM

From everything that I've read - the benefit (slimness) from dairy is not from the dairy itself, but from the calcium.

Foxy 11-24-2004 01:14 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsKey View Post

I've been debating with someone regarding the banning of trans-fats in food products.



Now this person is all for banning trans-fats because they "aren't healthy" and "everyone has to eat". Thus banning the use of trans-fats in food production is good because it isn't healthy.



But then when asked about meat and diary she defends meat and dairy as "healthy"?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!



Make this make sense to me - please.





How can you think the gov't banning TFAs is good because people will be healthier (yeah 'cause no one will over eat if they can't get junkfood made with TFAs 'cause only TFAs are bad for you) and then go on to defend meat and dairy products which are nothing but transfer vehicles for anti-biotics, hormones, saturated fats, etc.



Help. How does this stance make any logical sense???



IMO, for those who are well-educated about the meat and dairy and who take both traditional and alternative research and findings in to account it simply *doesn't* make sense.

zoebird 11-24-2004 02:09 PM

well, there's nothing "unhealthy" about saturated fat. it's actually good for you and you do need it. vegetarians get it through oils like olive oil. so, saturated fat isn't a problem. if it's moderated (i get this much from meat, this much from olive oil or whatever, etc), then it isn't problematic. also, not all meat has antibiotics, hormones, etc. you can get organic, biodynamic, antibiotic-free and hormone-free meats. it's all that my husband will eat.



the same is true of dairy. pasturized isn't great, but raw is healthy. raw dairy comes from organic/biodynamic farms and are also antibiotic and hormone free. So, it is possible to get meats and dairy that are healthier.



transfats have no real benefit. enriched white flour, also not great--you know? so, they're obvious. meat and dairy can be healthy in the right quanities and from the right sources. transfats will never be healthy. that's the difference.

VeggieFaery 11-24-2004 02:25 PM

It took me 24 years to realize meat was NOT healthy.And I had to educate myself.I think that is the problem.People arte not educated and a lot of people will defend thier ideals to the death no matter how illogical it seems.

GhostUser 11-24-2004 02:52 PM

Maybe your friend doesn't like to eat transfats, but does like to eat meat and dairy. (It's probably just that simple).







The Rev

beth 11-24-2004 02:53 PM

zoebird, I think the problem is most people don't buy organic meat and dairy. I'm sure there are healthy things about both, but in my opinion the bad outweighs the good when it comes to the meat and dairy MrsKey's friend probably meant.

frenchie 11-24-2004 03:15 PM

Well, Transfats actually raise LDL (bad cholesterol) Weather or not meat is healthy is a debatable issue...however there is no debating the fact that transfats are bad for the heart.

dcpsoguy 11-24-2004 03:55 PM

Most meats, including chicken and turkey, are very effective sources of lean protein. You may have something against meat, but please don't deny outright facts. And yes, I am a vegetarian who has some vegan tendencies, and abhor the factory farming system.

GhostUser 11-24-2004 06:10 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by rincaro View Post

From everything that I've read - the benefit (slimness) from dairy is not from the dairy itself, but from the calcium.



When I drank a lot of dairy, I kept my weight lower. When I was a vegan, I drank as much in soy milk (nearly choked to death each time, but I drank it). I gained ~10lbs, though nothing else really changed about my diet (protein, fibre, carbs, fat, calories, all were about the same as before).



fastforward to back to dairy world. Lost the weight again, still didn't change anything. /shrug makes no sense to me, but there it is.

dcpsoguy 11-24-2004 06:39 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by kristadb View Post

When I drank a lot of dairy, I kept my weight lower. When I was a vegan, I drank as much in soy milk (nearly choked to death each time, but I drank it). I gained ~10lbs, though nothing else really changed about my diet (protein, fibre, carbs, fat, calories, all were about the same as before).



fastforward to back to dairy world. Lost the weight again, still didn't change anything. /shrug makes no sense to me, but there it is.



What brand of soymilk were you drinking? What brand of dairy milk were you drinking? Fat-free?

Kurmudgeon 11-24-2004 08:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by rincaro View Post

From everything that I've read - the benefit (slimness) from dairy is not from the dairy itself, but from the calcium.



And from what I understand, the calcium is with the 80%+ water that is in the dairy (when they remove fat they can say it has more calcium than regular dairy).

bethanie 11-24-2004 08:43 PM

You know, the dairy thing...when I gave up dairy, I lost a dress size, went back to dairy, gained about the same...now am off dairy again because of allergies. I think different people handle dairy differently.

Epinephrine 11-24-2004 10:44 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoebird View Post

well, there's nothing "unhealthy" about saturated fat. it's actually good for you and you do need it. vegetarians get it through oils like olive oil.



no, we don't need saturated fat at all. we need fat, but the unsaturated kind is the healthy kind. saturated fat is the artery-clogging, bad cholesterol-raising kind. vegetable oils are mostly unsaturated fatty acids. there is still controversy over whether trans fats are really worse than saturated fats.

kpickell 11-24-2004 11:07 PM

I don't see what's wrong with what your friend stated. Factually speaking. From a health standpoint, you can be healthy and eat lean sources of meat and dairy. You won't convert people to vegetarianism by using health arguments.

Epinephrine 11-24-2004 11:09 PM

i think it is a double standard, for sure. okay let's see.



1) most studies that show the benefits of milk use partially skimmed or skimmed milk, that is, 2%, 1%, or 0% fat. full fat milk is 3.7% pure fat and it hasn't been shown to be healthy to anyone ever. therefore raw milk isn't healthier because it is full fat.



2) raw milk is not hormone free. it does contain hormones - cow hormones, necessary for a calf to grow into a 500lb cow.



3) most meat is not 'chicken and turkey'. most meat is red meat, and red meat isn't lean.



however, i don't think that from a health point of view that people are made to believe that the more meat they eat, the healthir they will be. that does happen with milk though, but what i actually hear is them pushing people to drink skimmed or partially skimmed milk, and that skimmed milk is best. and so it is...



so i don't really see a double standard in the practical sense, even though i don't hear anyone in the public eye saying that sat fats are bad. i guess it's because that should be too obvious?

GhostUser 11-24-2004 11:10 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcpsoguy View Post

What brand of soymilk were you drinking? What brand of dairy milk were you drinking? Fat-free?





fat free plain soy and light chocolate soy



skim milk and light chocolate milk

VeggieFaery 11-24-2004 11:50 PM

possibly sugar content?

GhostUser 11-25-2004 12:21 AM

No, it's because everyone's body reacts differently to foods

Jessica 11-25-2004 03:54 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by kpickell View Post

I don't see what's wrong with what your friend stated. Factually speaking. From a health standpoint, you can be healthy and eat lean sources of meat and dairy. You won't convert people to vegetarianism by using health arguments.









I agree. Choosing limited amounts of high quality meat and dairy is not bad for you.

Epinephrine 11-25-2004 11:46 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessica View Post





I agree. Choosing limited amounts of high quality meat and dairy is not bad for you.



exactly. key words being "limited amounts".



anything in limited amounts won't be bad for you. that includes drugs and trans fats.

Artichoke47 11-25-2004 12:50 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Epinephrine View Post

1) most studies that show the benefits of milk use partially skimmed or skimmed milk, that is, 2%, 1%, or 0% fat. full fat milk is 3.7% pure fat and it hasn't been shown to be healthy to anyone ever. therefore raw milk isn't healthier because it is full fat.



And those numbers from the dairy industry or council, whatever it calls itself, are by weight, not volume, so they don't really mean a whole lot.

Frost 11-25-2004 02:54 PM

Hey dont forget Playdoh and crayons, two of my all time favorites.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Epinephrine View Post

exactly. key words being "limited amounts".



anything in limited amounts won't be bad for you. that includes drugs and trans fats.


kpickell 11-25-2004 10:17 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Epinephrine View Post

exactly. key words being "limited amounts".



anything in limited amounts won't be bad for you. that includes drugs and trans fats.



The difference being, limited amounts of fat-free milk and lean fish are good for you. Limited amounds of drugs and trans fats are not good for you, even though they won't hurt you.



PS: I'm not advocating that anyone eat fish or drink milk, only discussing the thread topic.


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