My New Prudishness: Why I don't care about who has sex with whom! - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 11-04-2004, 03:29 PM
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I think I am a prude. There I said it. I just don't give a wet slap who people are sleeping with. Men with men. Women with women. Farm animals with either (okay, unfair to the farm animals but they are used to worse). People sleeping with kids will get a rise out of me. You think you hate the idea now. Try raising a little girl. You get all kinds of medieval at the mere thought that ANYONE would entertain such an idea. People do. What's funny is that pedophilia is for some reason associated with gayness in this country when nothing could be further from reality but I digress.



Basically I just don't care as long as it's not anything I have to deal with. I am such a prude that I don't want to see straight people having it off in public, nor gay people, nor anyone with anything. We have porn availble should curiousity ever get the better of me. I long for good old-fashioned Victorian closed-doorism. I'm basically bored by it. I find people's sex lives shatteringly uninteresting. I don't care if gay people serve in the military (and anti-gay people should care less at this point, one would imagine, with Iraq chewing up and spitting out people at predictably tragic rates these days). I don't care if they teach my kids, police my street for crime, serve me breakfast or are my boss. I just don't see why their being gay or not would have any meaning in any of these contexts. I don't introduce myself as a straight woman. Why would anyone introduce themselves into the situations described above as a gay man or woman? How is that important info?



I just have no personal investment in the Gay Marriage Issue and though I think it would be nice to live in a world where it does not matter who marries what (I Qumquat, take you, Burmese Temple Dancer to be my lawful wedded whatsit) I feel rather mightily ripped off that this issue is what derailed the Democratic hopes for election to the executive branch this year. I remember the whole "Don't ask, don't tell" answer to gayness in the military during the Clinton era and felt that was a wonderful solution. I don't see why anyone's sexual preference is of any importance whatsoever in the military or elsewhere. To me it's a moot question. Like "What's your sign?" Don't ask, don't tell, should be the guideline for everyone. If you are among friends or looking for a date then by all means, tell us what we need to know. Otherwise. Zzzzz. Let's talk about the weather. That's far more salient.



I just find I don't care. Now it's true we still live in a world where gay people can be beaten to death at moment's notice for just existing. Or where a gay teacher can be fired for just being gay and THOSE are issues I think anyone with a beating heart could understand getting up in arms over. I can see losing an election over that. But gay marriage? That's like losing an election over the right to casual dress on Fridays. Just...not life and death enough for us to have lost this thing over. I don't begrudge gay people the right to be upset over not being allowed to get married...I just can't believe it was so important that Kerry was unable to see how it would derail him. Why could he not do the Clinton Sidestep. (More attractive than the Kerry Flip Flop, plus it's got a beat you can dance to).



Oh well. Bitter diatribe over. I may never understand and that will have to be okay.



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#2 Old 11-04-2004, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by AccidentalVeg View Post

What's funny is that pedophilia is for some reason associated with gayness in this country when nothing could be further from reality but I digress.





Maybe it's all the priests messing with young boys that make people jump to the wrong conclusion. Of course, that's okay and the Catholic church will try to brush it under the rug. Just don't let two consenting adults of the same sex touch each other.
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#3 Old 11-04-2004, 03:48 PM
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Maybe it's all the priests messing with young boys that make people jump to the wrong conclusion. Of course, that's okay and the Catholic church will try to brush it under the rug. Just don't let two consenting adults of the same sex touch each other.



LOL. Well if you are a pedophile then exactly what are your career options?



Yeah. Think I would try being celibate too except, well...that's hard to do. Maybe gay people used to join the clergy but now they can go out and be normal members of society and find partners ('cept they can't get hitched and stuff). So that leaved pedophiles, serial killers and...whatever else there is applying for those fabulous jobs as priests.



Yucky.



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#4 Old 11-04-2004, 04:04 PM
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B/C I feel I have to....



Priests did get a lot of coverage for child molestation, but let's not forget that the vast majority are NOT child abusers and are invested into improving the lives of others.



Just not like all vegans are obsessive about what others eat, not all christians hate gays, not all muslins hate christians, etc.
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#5 Old 11-04-2004, 04:06 PM
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Thanks krista, you beat me to it.
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#6 Old 11-04-2004, 04:14 PM
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It's a very bad day for me; I'm agreeing with Tame and Krista.



Krista is absolutely right about the vast majority of priests/ministers being good people. Pedophiles are drawn to the priesthood/ministry for two basic, although differing, reasons. Many pedophiles are tormented by their "urges", and think that they can overcome them by entering a religious life. Others are drawn to professions where they can readily find victims - such as priest/minister, teacher, scout leader, etc. The two "reasons" can both be present in the same person. I have felt pity for most of the true pedophiles (as opposed to the individuals who molest members of their families because they're convenient and because they enjoy the power) I have known; they are generally verytormented individuals. Of course, my pity for and outrage on behalf of their victims is greater.
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#7 Old 11-04-2004, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by kristadb View Post

B/C I feel I have to....



Priests did get a lot of coverage for child molestation, but let's not forget that the vast majority are NOT child abusers and are invested into improving the lives of others.



Just not like all vegans are obsessive about what others eat, not all christians hate gays, not all muslins hate christians, etc.



I realize that. I'm just feeling a bit anti-Catholic/religious right after this election. I consider myself religious. But my church isn't so far off to the right that it can't move any further.
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#8 Old 11-04-2004, 04:59 PM
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Sorry, mouse. I've noticed we've been doing that a lot lately. Perhaps we aren't as different as we'd like to admit That's a scary thought.



What I'm about to say isn't popular and in no way what I am saying is meant to be offensive. So, if you think you'll be offended, stop reading.



I don't know a lot about pedophiles, but what I've learned is very fascinating to me. There were periods in our history where we allowed people like them, with their urges and desires, to find mates that are attractive to them. However, in today's society, they are considered "wrong" desires and impulses.



Also, I have read and studied studies that show there is a difference in brain activity between those who molest for "power" and those who molest b/c of a true sexual preference. There is no medication for the second ones; only chemical castration (which many take). Still, they live with the guilt of having urges for children.



I find it interesting how morals and "rules" change with societies. The treatment of these individuals - even the ones who have not molested, but have the desires - are treated with the same scorn as a gay man in the 50s (or today, in some places).



It's a field of study that is hard for many to talk about and I myself was taken aback a few times by it, as you're trying to learn what's going on in the brain instead of what society and our laws tells me is wrong.
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#9 Old 11-04-2004, 06:01 PM
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Oh man, that "don't ask, don't tell" bullsh*t burns me up!!! Why shouldn't I tell? Heterosexuals do. I will too.



You don't think sexual orientation is anybody's business? Think again. Have you ever been married? Mentioned a husband/wife or bf/gf? Worn a wedding ring? Had a joint checking account with both names on the checks?



Those are all ways that heterosexuals announce their orientation. If someone mentions a husband or wife in conversation, they'd better be ready to hear about my partner. I ain't sitting in the back of this bus.
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#10 Old 11-04-2004, 06:50 PM
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I ain't sitting in the back of this bus.



HAHA!



May I please use this?
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#11 Old 11-04-2004, 07:06 PM
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Oh man, that "don't ask, don't tell" bullsh*t burns me up!!! Why shouldn't I tell? Heterosexuals do. I will too.



You don't think sexual orientation is anybody's business? Think again. Have you ever been married? Mentioned a husband/wife or bf/gf? Worn a wedding ring? Had a joint checking account with both names on the checks?



Those are all ways that heterosexuals announce their orientation. If someone mentions a husband or wife in conversation, they'd better be ready to hear about my partner. I ain't sitting in the back of this bus.



That's interesting. I have worked for years in office environments and nobody knew or commented as to whether I was either straight or gay or married. I just don't talk about my home life at work and I have found it to be an excellent policy that has served me well. I wore a ring and nobody asked me if it was a man or a woman I was married to. If they asked and I was worried about the reaction I would say I was married to someone I love. End of story. Why would people need to know about my home life? They know my birthday and that I hate potpourri. That's all anyone needs to know. Oh and that I can get the job done on time and under budget. It's a job. It's not my social life.



As to whose names are on a check? Most people don't care as long as they get the check. Really. I think heteros parading their straightness is in just as poor taste as anyone parading their sexual orientation. It's just not anyone's business in my opinion. As a tall, short-haired woman, many people even assumed I was gay. Assuming is a sad fact of human nature. I just happen to think those assumptions made publicly are in very poor taste and serve no one.



As to the pedophilia thing. I really think pity would be the best possible thing I could feel for those persons having to face it in themselves. I think anonymous programs should be available to help them deal with the fact that their obsession will never be one they can act on. If I had that proclivity I would willingly have my self neutered so I could live my life and be of some use to society. Some sexual fetishes are just not healthy ones to try and live with such as anything involving children. Oh. And farm animals. Leave those poor things alone. They have enough to deal with.



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#12 Old 11-04-2004, 07:22 PM
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HAHA!



May I please use this?



Anything for you, krista!
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#13 Old 11-04-2004, 07:23 PM
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Anything for you, krista!



ooooooh ... this could get interesting.
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#14 Old 11-04-2004, 07:30 PM
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The other thing I wanted to say was this. The "don't ask, don't tell" thing may not be fair -- and I am not saying it is ultimately the answer to how things should be-- but it is the closest thing you are gonna see in THIS country to actual freedom for GLBT people. The freedom to do as you please where queasy, straight prudes cannot see you. That's better than things were for a long time and the best anyone can hope for in the current political climate. Laws against sodomy have finally been overturned. More people are living as they want to, although they cannot have huge, society weddings at the church of their choice yet. I personally think those things are going to come. Because gay people have always been here. Gayness has always existed. It's not going to go away. I think it will gradually become as normal as anything else is and the religious right's policy of exclusion and defamation will go down as many other kinds of outmoded thinking have. I just think this country is obviously not ready to embrace the idea of gay marriage and with this taken into account, stealthier methods of gaining freedoms must be employed. In light of this I think my policy of no one being privy to the parameters of my homelife other than friends and close family is me saying "what I do and what anyone else does is NUNYA!!". Nunya bizness, that is.



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#15 Old 11-04-2004, 07:36 PM
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AMEN ACCIDENTALVEGAN! Couldn't have said it better myself. Do as you will, I do not wish to know what you do behind your own closed doors. Have at it!



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#16 Old 11-04-2004, 07:37 PM
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AccidentalVeg, I maintain that "don't ask, don't tell" is a ridiculously oppressive standard for heteros as well as queers. It's not unusually personal to mention a spouse in casual conversation with a co-worker.



Besides, if I remember correctly, you told us in your introductory post that you became veg because of a guy you were dating. Why would his gender be any more important to a bunch of strangers than to someone you work with every day?



My lesbianism isn't just my sex life. It's not particularly earth-shattering information that I'm queer, and I don't see why I should keep it secret.



ETA: I was still writing this when you posted above. Oops!
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#17 Old 11-04-2004, 07:40 PM
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My lesbianism isn't just my sex life.



You mean lesbians do another things, like wash dishes and wear skirts?







What's next? Letting women read books?
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#18 Old 11-04-2004, 07:40 PM
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AMEN ACCIDENTALVEGAN! Couldn't have said it better myself. Do as you will, I do not wish to know what you do behind your own closed doors. Have at it!



B



Sure, bethanie. As long as you do the same!
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#19 Old 11-04-2004, 07:41 PM
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You mean lesbians do another things, like wash dishes and wear skirts?







What's next? Letting women read books?



You and your crazy ideas!
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#20 Old 11-04-2004, 07:42 PM
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Sure, bethanie. As long as you do the same!





That goes without saying hon.



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#21 Old 11-04-2004, 07:45 PM
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Most of you know that I have...qualms about gay marriage. I can't put my finger on it, but admitedly I have qualms.



With that said, I support Canada's decision to allow gay marriage. If Gracie were to get married tomorrow and she invited me, I most certainly would show up and offer to make food for the celebration. If Gracie asked me to go to a gay pride parade, I would turn her down, but I would definately provide a snack for herself and her wife to get them through the day.



I recognize that my qualms are just that - mine. I will work out my own feelings on the matter on my own. I also recognize that, according to the laws of my country, gays should be allowed to marry, so I support the laws allowing it.



It is possible to not be a banner-waving supporter of gay marriage, but able to understand that we cannot tout how "free" we are when we deny the priviledge of marriage to Gracie.
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#22 Old 11-04-2004, 07:51 PM
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Besides, if I remember correctly, you told us in your introductory post that you became veg because of a guy you were dating. Why would his gender be any more important to a bunch of strangers than to someone you work with every day?



Ha! Do you think for even five seconds that I would tell my co workers my dietary contraints? These are steak and beer people. It's advertising! Steak chased with more steak and vodka and cigarettes! And I was one of them till I met someone who made me think about it. If I am offered steak now I say I'm not hungry. I am veggie-closet girl. Who needs to know? If they ask then I say I cannot eat meats or fats because of my gall bladder which is still mostly true, (its condition has improved tremendously though it made me throw up a few days ago from eating three BK onion rings someone gave me). They back right off. "Oh you poor thing! I am so sorry!"



Ah well. I said I was a prude.



Let's here it for Prude Pride
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#23 Old 11-04-2004, 07:52 PM
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It is possible to not be a banner-waving support of gay marriage, but able to understand that we cannot tout how "free" we are when we deny the priviledge of marriage to Gracie.



Beautifully said, Krista.
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#24 Old 11-04-2004, 08:01 PM
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Ok, AccidentalVeg, you're willing to live "in the closet." But don't expect it of me.



And in all seriousness, bethanie, things that people do "behind closed doors" should certainly be private. I would never publicly discuss anything I do in bed. But that's just a tiny part of my relationship with my partner. Most of our relationship is just like any heterosexual marriage, and that's exactly how I treat it.
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#25 Old 11-04-2004, 08:06 PM
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That's me. Closeted straight person. It's me trying to be fair and to a certain extent keep what's mine at home mine. I even introduce my BF as my "friend" to people IRL. Some of my neighbors are total RW evangelical freaks who sent me condolence cards when I filed for divorce and they saw my ex being forced to move his things out. It was worth opening those cards for the hooting laughter I emitted for literally hours afterward. One card had a christian marriage counselor's biz card in it. Anyone who knows the reasons why I left my ex would have laughed rather heartily too.



Maybe I am embarrassed about being straight? LOL! Who can say?



d
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