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-   -   Who won the 2nd debate (https://www.veggieboards.com/forum/17-compost-heap/22030-who-won-2nd-debate.html)

ug333 10-08-2004 10:04 PM

Just curious what people think, and observations they had.

Vicky 10-08-2004 10:07 PM

Kerry of course ...

ug333 10-08-2004 10:08 PM

I think Kerry won, but not nearly as solid as the 1st debate. Bush did better, but still made some mistakes (excluding my differing opinion from his ).



When he ignored the moderator and blurted out his opinion about allies and Kerry's portrayal of them, I really was shocked. That was probably the biggest presentation error, ignoring arguments and policies (for which I obviously am bias towards Kerry).

schu 10-09-2004 03:26 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ug333 View Post

I think Kerry won, but not nearly as solid as the 1st debate. Bush did better, but still made some mistakes (excluding my differing opinion from his ).



When he ignored the moderator and blurted out his opinion about allies and Kerry's portrayal of them, I really was shocked. That was probably the biggest presentation error, ignoring arguments and policies (for which I obviously am bias towards Kerry).



i agree..bush had a better showing than last time but it still wasnt too good

Jennifer 10-09-2004 05:25 AM

Bush ignored argumnets and Policies just as he does in real life. It is so clear that Bush is out of touch with reality.



Kerry Clearly won that debate.

Dirty Martini 10-09-2004 05:41 AM

Well now wait a minute here... though it seems common perception on many sites on THIS internet that kerry won the debate, let me check on the *other* internets to see what people are saying there...



*snicker*

lijahbaby 10-09-2004 07:42 AM

I voted(for Kerry) on about 10 online polls after tha debate last night and Kerry was way ahead of Bush on all of them, including the Fox News poll.

ug333 10-09-2004 09:24 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by lijahbaby View Post

I voted(for Kerry) on about 10 online polls after tha debate last night and Kerry was way ahead of Bush on all of them, including the Fox News poll.



Unfortunately, Fox News now does show bush with a slight lead. I'm just happy that kerry was ever ahead in the fox news polls

GhostUser 10-09-2004 10:43 AM

neither. they both sucked.

LudwigB 10-09-2004 11:03 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by OregonAmy View Post

Well now wait a minute here... though it seems common perception on many sites on THIS internet that kerry won the debate, let me check on the *other* internets to see what people are saying there...







Someone made a post on Salon.com pointing out all the great Bushisms: e.g. on the environment question: "[we've had] fewer water complaints since I've been president." Fifty bucks to anyone who knows what a water complaint is.



Also, "we've increased wetlands by 100 million." 100 million what? Square inches? Gallons? And how do you increase wetlands? Isn't that nature's job? Unless of course you're talking about new wetlands resulting from rising sea levels, thanks to the US pulling out of the Kyoto protocol.



Needless to say I think Kerry won. But he could have done a lot better, especially on that environment question, which was a giveaway.



My support of Kerry has increased by 24.

AccidentalVeg 10-09-2004 11:20 AM

Salon made much of how Kerry could have levelled accusations about the Bush Admin "cooking" the intelligence to strengthen the case for war on Iraq. Yet he did not. Anyone wondering why? It's a serious allegation but a credible one. I expect we will see this one come out any day now.



d

kirkjobsluder 10-09-2004 11:33 AM

Foreign policy was not the focus of this debate.

AccidentalVeg 10-09-2004 11:47 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by kirkjobsluder View Post

Foreign policy was not the focus of this debate.



Oh really? Could have fooled me.




AccidentalVeg 10-09-2004 11:48 AM

Personally I think the red wall-to-wall carpeting won. My eyes are still burning.



d

BadrashClothing 10-09-2004 01:39 PM

I like how bush ignored the question "What 3 things have you done wrong" LOL He wouldn't name them.



I agree with someone else who was talking about how he ignored that host and just babbled on when the host was trying to speak. I wonder if he does that with foreign leaders?



He is a rude, aragant, war monger!



Join the Revolution, not the army!

ebola 10-09-2004 02:58 PM

Bush wins when it comes to double-entendres

"Want some wood?"



(yes, I'm in junior high.)

Frost 10-09-2004 03:49 PM

Interesting analysis of the debate, includes stated facts that were not true. Anyone wanna guess who had the most?



http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6210791/?GT1=5472

MollyGoat 10-09-2004 04:09 PM

Bush keeps starting sentences, and then starting other sentences before the first sentences are done.



I thought Kerry did REALLY well on a few questions, especially the abortion one. It was so bizarre when he said he voted against the partial-birth abortion bill because it didn't have an exception for the mother's life and health and then Bush got up and said "It's simple. Are you for partial-birth abortion or are you against it?" Uh, it's clearly not that simple, and Kerry just said why. Duh!

carried 10-09-2004 04:19 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by shagginabit View Post

neither. they both sucked.

I thought so too

delicious 10-09-2004 04:39 PM

I listened to the 2nd debate on the radio. Kerry seemed to kick ass on the radio for some reason. Later, when I watched about half of the debate on television, Bush didn't seem to have done as poorly as I thought. It was like Bush sounded totally dumb and insecure, but surprisingly his face didn't show it.

I think the first debate was about 85 to 15 (Kerry winning) and the second one went 65 - 35. (Kerry winning again)

Bush didn't drool though, so he "won"

Vegan 10-09-2004 04:57 PM

I don't like Kerry because he's a hunter.

So, I have to chose to lesser of two evils.



I hate Bush more, so I vote for Kerry.

He has GOT to be a better president than Buch.

Annie 10-09-2004 04:58 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by LudwigB View Post


And how do you increase wetlands? Isn't that nature's job?



Actually, for every specified area of land that is used to build industrial parks or buildings...you have to build a wet land, too. That's why if you drive past new factories, you usually see a pond and/or marsh area. It's regulated by the E.P.A..



What he was referring to, was the fact that some have been introduced to areas that have nothing to do with industry (just to have them in place for habitation).

Vegan 10-09-2004 05:00 PM

Plus, Bush always tries to talk before he's allowed to, and he obviously has a bad temper, from what I see on television.



Not to mention the fact that he only talks about how Kerry "also thought Saddam was a threat", how he "flip flops" & "September 11th changed the wolrd..."



Jesus.

Get some new material.

Dirty Martini 10-09-2004 06:20 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MollyGoat View Post

Bush keeps starting sentences, and then starting other sentences before the first sentences are done.



I thought Kerry did REALLY well on a few questions, especially the abortion one. It was so bizarre when he said he voted against the partial-birth abortion bill because it didn't have an exception for the mother's life and health and then Bush got up and said "It's simple. Are you for partial-birth abortion or are you against it?" Uh, it's clearly not that simple, and Kerry just said why. Duh!



Yes, I thought Kerry handled that and the stem cell questions particularly well. He made it clear, without being over-intellectual, that they are complex issues that require a lot of thought and respect of emotion. It was pretty obvious that Bush was appealing to his base on those questions.



I also thought Bush bungled up the question about drugs form Canada, and that Kerry did well to point out Bush's commitment in 2000 to allow drugs from Canada and his association with drug companies. Bush stated he wanted drugs coming in to the statest to be safe & that's why he wasn't allowing Canadian drugs. All this in the same week that reports are coming out that the FDA *knew* that Vioxx was harmful yet approved it anyway!



AccidentalVeg, if Kerry had started attacking Bush on the statistics, he would have appeared petty & nitpicky rather than presidential. The media are doing the factchecking for both sides, so I assume that the Kerry campaign is relying on the media to reveal the mistakes so that he doesn't have to resort to nitpicking. Smart move, since the media are pointing out fact mistakes (again, on both sides).



The Bush campaign would do well to stop Kerry's momentum but after two successful debates, it's going to be tough.

delicious 10-09-2004 08:19 PM

"The Bush campaign would do well to stop Kerry's momentum but after two successful debates, it's going to be tough."



Isn't Bush slightly ahead though?

Red 10-09-2004 08:32 PM

Quote:
...that reports are coming out that the FDA *knew* that Vioxx was harmful yet approved it anyway!



I've been on Vioxx for almost a year. When I first started it, I was warned about the things that are making headlines now. The relief from 24 hour pain made it worth the risk. It really isn't some big coverup.

GhostUser 10-09-2004 09:22 PM

I got pretty frustrated while watching it. Bush just kept butting in and saying "I did that! I will do that!" I just kept saying "thats so unbelievably rude." and then, the classic...

"I own a timber company?"



hahah. He owns a company he didnt even know about.

Annie 10-09-2004 09:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegan View Post

...he obviously has a bad temper...

I'm glad of it. I'd rather have someone jump up and do something when my family is threatened or at risk of danger, than have someone be too afraid of what everyone *might* think about them, to actually take action. I don't want a "leader" who's going to pander to the masses and make bad choices, only to increase his self esteem.

eggplant 10-09-2004 09:32 PM

Bush was particularly lame on the environmental question. It's ridiculous for him to say his administration has been environment-friendly. I thought Kerry came out much stronger, although he also bends the facts fairly often. I wonder how much of an effect these debates have on voters though. Many people seem to just hear want they want to hear.

remilard 10-09-2004 10:02 PM

Questions to ponder...



1. Did Bush lie about being an owner of a timber company or did he not know that he is? Which is more disturbing?



2. All of us with IQs above 32 know that a short list of names exist in the Bush administration in the event that a Supreme Court Justice resigns or is otherwise not able to continue their duties. Did Bush lie about not knowing who he would nominate or does he actually not know who is on that list? Which is more disturbing?



3. Bush gave an example of an elderly woman who's prescription drug bill for a month was $10 before the prescription benefits program under medicare and $1 after. Does Bush really think that these are realistic numbers or is he just bad at making stuff up? Which is more disturbing?



4. Bush will not nominate a Supreme Court Justice who would bring back the Dred Scott decision. Did Bush actually think taking a stance on the slavery issue would help get him voters or was he having a hard time avoiding the simple question posed to him for a full 90 seconds? Which is more disturbing?


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