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#1 Old 02-04-2017, 02:35 PM
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Fasting

I regularly fast...usually for 21 days...I'm curious, being new here...I'm sure others here fast from time ..my question to experienced fasters...how do folks break your fasts? When I did my first fast...I gained 10 lbs in two days when I broke the fast...I read in one of Bragg's books just eat stewed tomatoes for like two days.


OMT- I do water only fasting...to me...that's the only real fasting. I'm in day 13 of my current fast..I'm going to do 21..maybe 40..we'll see.


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#2 Old 02-04-2017, 03:52 PM
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Is this thread a joke? No food for 21 days?! That sounds terribly unhealthy.

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#3 Old 02-04-2017, 04:17 PM
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You regularly do 3 week absolute fasts? How often is regularly?

My longest fast was 14 days. I had decided to go for broke and live on nothing but water until natural hunger returned and that was 14 and a half days after the last meal. I have a low body fat percentage and wasnt fasting for weight loss which, I expect, is why I hit the end at just 14 days. My longest before that was 12 days. In both instances I broke the fasts with a day of nothing but juice, followed that with a day of numerous very small very easy to digest meals, what I would usually consider a snack, day 3 I moved half the way from there back to 'normal'.

I loathe and abhor the Bragg fasting books, they are on the short list of the worst I've ever read, but breaking a fast with two days of stewed tomatoes isnt all that bad of advice. If one is avoiding juice for whatever reason I'd add in vegetable broth and congee as additional easy options.
I avoid canned foods and white rice but in my pantry I have cans of tomatoes, vegetable broth, fruit, and a jar of white rice [for congee] just in case I ever abruptly get extremely sick and cant plan ahead for a prolonged fast. More important than any specifics is to just remember your digestive system contracted and got more sensitive and its muscles got weaker, so aim for small amounts of easily digested stuff thats not excessively spicy or salty. I once encountered a buddhist monk who had to fast for a week due to illness, they can only eat whats offered so he broke his fast on plain white rice and just made a point to eat slowly and chew it very well. His only side effect was a greater appreciation for how absurdly delicious plain rice can be
Doctors almost invariably break prolonged fasts with fruit juice and if a patient cant be expected to handle that they usually use vegetable broth.

I do hope you dont push it past fasting and into starvation. That can happen when people aim for a certain duration.
I was rather surprised when my complete fast hit its end in only 14 days, you never know ahead of time how long it'll take.

One last thing, keep in mind your bodies main fuel is glycogen, and it holds 8 times its weight in water, so a pound of hydrated glycogen [stored in liver and muscle] is just a 200 Calorie reserve. Thats probably what explains much of your 10 lb gain. My muscles deflate like balloons when fasting because of the glycogen loss.
Consuming too much salt can amplify the water weight gain.

Any danger comes from either doing it without supervision or doing it with bad supervision.

Last edited by silva; 02-05-2017 at 04:01 PM. Reason: possible triggering info
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#4 Old 02-04-2017, 05:25 PM
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Bragg's book books are repetitive and read like an infomercial. All the fasting books I've read really don't spell out the symptoms of when it becomes starvation...I did find a vid on you tube of a lecture given by an associate of Dr. Alan Goldhammer..the guy who runs the True North Fasting Clinic out in Ca...he said the main symptom is lightheadedness/dizziness...I can assure you if that happened I would break the fast no matter where I stood. I fast for 21 days at least once a year...I enjoy it. I've done 21 day fasts 5x...and shorter fasts countless times. My plan is that after I break the fast....I'm going to do alternate day fasting. To me that sounds the most doable.
Thanks for the helpful reply!


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#5 Old 02-04-2017, 05:41 PM
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Actually, fasting is very good for a person...some things we have no control over..our heart never gets a break...but, we can give our GI tract a break..it's called water-only fasting. When a person fasts...the body's amazing self-healing abilities are able to get to work on many doctors would cure with toxic medications...Fasting works especially well on auto-immune diseases...such as lupus and acne...among others. Keep an open mind on fasting...it's NOT starvation...starvation only occurs after the body has run out of stored fuel..

Last edited by silva; 02-05-2017 at 05:38 PM. Reason: deleted unsubstantiated claim-triggering
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#6 Old 02-04-2017, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robert0259 View Post
...lightheadedness/dizziness...I can assure you if that happened I would break the fast no matter where I stood.
Good to hear.
Rapidly feeling weak is another indicator, on my last fast I got tired just walking out to check the mail. Its then that the true hunger hit.
The 'classical' [1900-1950] fasting doctors all considered the border between fasting and starvation to be when any 'morbid hunger' or appetite pains gave way to 'true hunger' or a feeling in the mouth or throat like thirst and the strong feeling that eating food would be absolutely delicious. For me hunger nearly vanishes after the first 2 days except for episodes of 'appetite' at my usual eating hours but when that hunger hits just a 1 second long thought of juice or agave nectar will make my salivary glands turn on and I'll really feel like eating.
Herbert Shelton talked a lot about this phenomena is his books. Theyre old enough to be free now and [This One] should be on the reading list of anyone considering fasting more than 3 days. The main caveat being, when he originally learned his trade [the 1930's] there were no antibiotics, no safe vaccines, and scant few effective drugs at all. Thats how he developed his philosophy that 'all medications are poisons', thankfully the situation has improved since then.
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#7 Old 02-04-2017, 08:20 PM
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Please provide links to peer-reviewed studies that show the benefit of fasting.

We have people under age 18 reading this forum. We need to make it clear that fasting can be dangerous, if not done properly. Ideally, it should be done under medical supervision.
.
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Specific recommendations for a healthy diet include: eating more fruit, vegetables, legumes, nuts and grains; cutting down on salt, sugar and fats. It is also advisable to choose unsaturated fats, instead of saturated fats and towards the elimination of trans-fatty acids."
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#8 Old 02-04-2017, 09:05 PM
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Please provide links to peer-reviewed studies that show the benefit of fasting.

We have people under age 18 reading this forum. We need to make it clear that fasting can be dangerous, if not done properly. Ideally, it should be done under medical supervision.
.
I would say this...read Dr. Joel Fuhrman's book Fasting and Eating for Health...in which he cites the peer-reviewed studies you're looking for...


If you're in poor health to begin with..yes, fasting can be dangerous...but, if you're in good health and do the proper preparation before fasting a short fast of 3-7 days should be no problem at all.
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#9 Old 02-05-2017, 03:20 PM
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Medical doctors fast people for longer than that sometimes, and to great benefit. The longest recorded water-only fast was 382 days, if I remember correctly, and all the doctors in the hospital agreed that it benefited the patient. Any danger comes from either doing it without supervision or doing it with bad supervision.
Here is a link to that 1973 study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...00315-0056.pdf . It's extremely important to note that the patient in this case study weighed 456 pounds at the start of the fast. Also, he was given vitamin pills and electrolyte replacements during the fast. And, importantly, the fast was conducted under medical supervision.

Also, the study noted that, as of the date of its publication, there were reports of 5 fatalities coinciding with the treatment of obesity with total starvation.
.

_________

Specific recommendations for a healthy diet include: eating more fruit, vegetables, legumes, nuts and grains; cutting down on salt, sugar and fats. It is also advisable to choose unsaturated fats, instead of saturated fats and towards the elimination of trans-fatty acids."
- United Nations' World Health Organization
http://www.who.int/topics/diet/en/
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#10 Old 02-05-2017, 03:25 PM
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I would say this...read Dr. Joel Fuhrman's book Fasting and Eating for Health...in which he cites the peer-reviewed studies you're looking for...
.

With all due respect, if you are encouraging people to fast (a treatment that carries health risks), then it's your responsibility to post links to the peer-reviewed studies.

The rules of this forum prohibit the prescribing of medical advice.
.
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_________

Specific recommendations for a healthy diet include: eating more fruit, vegetables, legumes, nuts and grains; cutting down on salt, sugar and fats. It is also advisable to choose unsaturated fats, instead of saturated fats and towards the elimination of trans-fatty acids."
- United Nations' World Health Organization
http://www.who.int/topics/diet/en/
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#11 Old 02-05-2017, 03:36 PM
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This is what VB rules say about "Staying Healthy":

We are not doctors and do not guarantee that any advice given on VB is based on medical fact vs. opinion. If you're ill or have questions about your health please see your personal health care provider about it. VB is also not an animal health site - if your companion animal is ill or hurt please contact your vet.

Please note that the moderators reserve the right to delete posts which promote extreme diets and health remedies which are seen as putting members health and well-being at great risk.



I'm reporting this thread to the Moderators so that they are aware it exists and can step in at any time they deem appropriate.

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#12 Old 02-05-2017, 03:45 PM
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With all due respect, if you are encouraging people to fast (a treatment that carries health risks), then it's your responsibility to post links to the peer-reviewed studies.

The rules of this forum prohibit the prescribing of medical advice.
.
If you look at my original post...I was asking a question..I wasn't promoting fasting...I'm just curious how others who fast..and I'm sure they're some folks here who do...how they broke the fast...as simple as that...I understand concern that teenagers might try fasting...I seriously doubt that most teens would have the willpower to abstain from food for a prolonged period..
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#13 Old 02-05-2017, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by robert0259 View Post
If you look at my original post...I was asking a question..I wasn't promoting fasting...I'm just curious how others who fast..and I'm sure they're some folks here who do...how they broke the fast...as simple as that...I understand concern that teenagers might try fasting...I seriously doubt that most teens would have the willpower to abstain from food for a prolonged period..
Unfortunately, it's quite common for teens who are suffering from eating disorders to decide to become vegan. And this forum is very easy to find when googling vegan or vegetarian questions.

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#14 Old 02-05-2017, 04:15 PM
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I'm on the fence on how this kind of discussion should be handled. On the one hand, the members discussing it are knowable, and offering sound advice. On the other hand, as others have pointed out, we have quite susceptible members here, who look for ways to lose weight without regard for health

Maybe this should be in compost? Suggestions?

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#15 Old 02-05-2017, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by robert0259 View Post
If you look at my original post...I was asking a question..I wasn't promoting fasting...I'm just curious how others who fast..and I'm sure they're some folks here who do...how they broke the fast...as simple as that...I understand concern that teenagers might try fasting...I seriously doubt that most teens would have the willpower to abstain from food for a prolonged period..
Not in your original post, but you kind of did promote it in another post.

"Actually, fasting is very good for a person"
"When a person fasts...the body's amazing self-healing abilities are able to get to work on many doctors would cure with toxic medications."

"We have enslaved the rest of the animal creation, and have treated our distant cousins in fur and feathers so badly that beyond doubt, if they were able to formulate a religion, they would depict the Devil in human form." - William Ralphe Inge

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#16 Old 02-05-2017, 04:48 PM
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I started fasting when I was homeless, and had no food to eat. There are benefits to food deprivation, not the least of which is spiritual. If nothing else, it makes us more appreciative of food, when we have it. But I recommend caution. Those who want to give their GI-tracts a rest can do so incrementally, by going one day per month without eating. This will give them 12-days per year of fasting, without risk of trauma. Treating fasting as a competitive sport or test of physical endurance or stamina has no benefit, beyond publicity. Setting the record for most days without food has no benefit, beyond showing off. Fasting will likely never be one of the Olympic Games.
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#17 Old 02-05-2017, 08:08 PM
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I am not so sure about fasting as a medical treatment for GI problems.

I have Crohns disease and I regularly have to fast a day or two for a medical checkup, but the doctors always stimulate me to eat as soon as possible, usually within an hour after the procedure.

Also when I am in hospital and really sick I am discouraged from eating little to nothing (which I am inclined to) because it will only make it worse for me once my digestion needs to do more work.

Having experience with what fasting does with my body, it doesn't make my bowels work any better. The less I eat, the more problems I have in the long term.

I would definitely not recommend a fasting diet to anyone without medical supervision, you might ruin things you don't known about now.

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#18 Old 02-05-2017, 08:10 PM
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I dont think anyone here was promoting fasting. I know I wasnt. But it is something people do for a variety of reasons and so discussion shouldnt be suppressed despite the western cultural taboo against fasting [and it is just a taboo, nearly all cultures have practiced fasting in some form since the beginning of human culture].
Fasting is a diverse topic with literally tens of thousands of published studies covering hundreds of measures of medical effects. Just saying 'show studies' isnt fair if not giving criteria that would narrow it down from 90,000 published papers to at least 900. So I'll just pick one 'detoxing'. People use that term loosely, often not sure just what they are detoxing from and because of that it tends to sound dubious but heres one real world example I recall reading several months back, and managed to find again, lol [Link] The full text is behind a paywall, but basically what the guts of the human interventional clinical study says is that people were poisoned by rice oil contaminated with the persistent PCB toxins, after 2-3 years many were still very sick [it normally takes 8-20 years for just half of PCBs to leave the body]. Patients were put on a extremely low calorie diet designed to put the body in 'fasting mode' without frightening the patients [that pesky fasting taboo ] for a mere 7-10 days. Tests of their urine showed that their bodies went to work metabolizing the PCBs and flushing them down the toilet. Nearly every patient saw marked improvements in their symptoms after the fast. Nearly every patient who still had some poisoning symptoms asked to be fasted again!
Studies like this tend to be small because expenses are high and no one will fund a study that doesnt sell drugs, but you can find them for a variety of things. You can find studies showing fasting during chemotherapy protects the immune system from collapse. It has all kinds of applications. Google Scholar] is your friend.

As for the 382 day fast, yes, that involved vitamins. Even a well nourished person will develop vitamin deficiencies after 2 months. And yes, that was monitored by doctors [I think I said that] and prolonged fasts should always be monitored by qualified people [I said that too ]. And there are records of people dying, usually from unqualified supervision or no supervision.

Eating disorders were mentioned, and thats a good point. In general people with a history of eating disorders should not fast and if it ever is done it must be under medical guidance. I'm serious about that.
Please dont use that as a reason to pester thin people who fast, tho. Thin people always get hounded when they fast, but they have an easier time putting on lean weight after they fast! I've never had an eating disorder but have always been 'underweight'. I underwent a fast where I lost 14% of my bodyweight in 2 weeks and after breaking the fast my body was happy to put on lean muscle weight well beyond my starting weight. I'm now officially in a 'normal' BMI for the first time in my life. And when I was fasting people who knew nothing of fasting all told me in their 'expert' opinions that I was somewhere from stupid to insane and probably anorexic. Anyway... beginning to rant... lol.
Dont do unsupervised fasts if youve ever had an eating disorder, full stop.

I also have not advised fasting to loose weight. And I wont. Sure, you can find lots on it in the medical literature starting from articles published last year and stretching back to Dr. Deweys No Breakfast Plan published over 110 years ago. Sure, it does work if done right. But in that is the catch. Doing it right includes living on a very healthy very low fat diet after the fast, something most people will not do in practice. Just transitioning to a very healthy diet with only 10% of calories from fat will let people loose lots of weight over the following years, especially if combined with walking a mile a day. There really isnt a need to fast for weight loss. Its an option, but you'll need a good diet after the fast anyway so why not just do that instead? You dont need medical supervision to eat brown rice and beans.

I'm not a doctor, I'm not giving medical advice, no one here is your doctor, do not blindly accept medical advice from anyone here.
Heck, in my opinion, do not blindly accept medical advice from doctors! Unless you've just been hit by a truck and have no choice...
Read and learn and study and evaluate and take some control of your own health because you probably care more about your health than anyone else you meet. You certainly have more at stake!
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Last edited by Auxin; 02-05-2017 at 08:15 PM.
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