Stop. Stop. This has got to stop. [IDF] - VeggieBoards
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
#1 Old 10-02-2004, 05:04 AM
Veggie Regular
 
clickman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,017
Those were the words that came out of my mouth as I was horrified when I opened the Boston Globe today to see "IDF Prepares Major Offensive". The fact that we support this makes me ashamed to be an American. I'm sending AI every bit of money I have today, to thank them for this. It may not produce results, but, it's just incredibly importiant to these people that they're not forgotten.



Quote:
Amnesty: IDF must respect human rights



Amnesty International is concerned for the safety of the Palestinian population in the Jabalya refugee camp and elsewhere in the northern Gaza Strip, where the Israeli army is carrying out a large-scale offensive, the international human rights organization said Friday.



In a statement released to the media, Amnesty accused the Israel Defense forces of "frequent reckless shooting and shelling from tanks and Apache helicopters into densely populated Palestinian refugee camps."



Amnesty did note that the latest Israeli army incursion into the northern Gaza Strip follows the killing of two Israeli children by a Palestinian kassam attack on Sderot and the shooting attack on an Israeli teacher out for a jog near her home in Nisanit.



Amnesty reported that in the past two days the Israeli army has also destroyed some 20 Palestinian homes in the area. Last week the Israeli army also destroyed some 35 homes in the Khan Yunis refugee camp in the Gaza Strip.



"Amnesty International is concerned that the Israeli army's use of excessive force in this latest incursion in the Gaza Strip will result in further loss of lives and wanton destruction of Palestinian homes and property. Reprisals against protected persons and property are prohibited by the Fourth Geneva Convention and Israel is obliged to ensure that any measures taken to protect the lives of Israeli civilians are consistent with its obligations to respect human rights and international humanitarian law.



"Israel should immediately allow international human rights and humanitarian organizations to enter the Gaza Strip. At present Amnesty International delegates and staff members of other international organizations are denied access to the Gaza Strip," the statement read.



Amnesty International also called on Palestinian armed groups to put an immediate end to attacks on Israeli civilians. "The organization also calls on the Palestinian Authority to exert all possible efforts to prevent such attacks."



http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...=1096611626890
clickman is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 Old 10-02-2004, 08:05 AM
Veggie Regular
 
AccidentalVeg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,491
What is happening to the Palestinian people is a violation of the Geneva Convention. Mass detainment and suffering which lead to desperation and suicide bombings.



Those people need help and that situation has been allowed to persist for far too long. It is Kafkaesque, inhumane and wrong.



Send some elder statesmen in and get that situation dealt with. No wall-building. No imprisonment of a people. Horrible.



d
AccidentalVeg is offline  
#3 Old 10-02-2004, 08:25 AM
Veggie Regular
 
LudwigB's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 735
I agree it has to stop, but what can we do as long as tiny Israel has the mighty US by the cajones? UN sanctions?
LudwigB is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#4 Old 10-02-2004, 12:55 PM
Veggie Regular
 
clickman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,017
Quote:
Originally Posted by LudwigB View Post

I agree it has to stop, but what can we do as long as tiny Israel has the mighty US by the cajones? UN sanctions?



Don't vote for either of the Israeli puppets. We need people like Ralph Nader and other progressives in office, who aren't afraid to call them out as puppeters.
clickman is offline  
#5 Old 10-02-2004, 09:34 PM
Banned
 
Tame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 13,022
I notice the ****s at AI didn't mention teh wanton disregard for life committed by Palestinian terrorists...



Stop. Stop. This has got to stop. (Palestinian militants.)
Tame is offline  
#6 Old 10-02-2004, 10:03 PM
Veggie Regular
 
AccidentalVeg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,491
A people who are virtually imprisoned have no rights and therefore no hope. Build a wall around them. Make them submit to curfews and random lockdowns, bombings and assasinations and they will get pretty desperate and they will do desperate things, as we have seen. It's not unusual. Chechnya anyone? It's unwinnable as it stands unless you just blow them all up or...think of something other than building a wall around them and shelling them when you feel like it. That is not a solution and I cannot stand the US's buddy-buddy relationship with Israel. It's a sickening human rights nightmare.



The UN says it is "Gravely concerned at the continued deterioration of the situation in the occupied Palestinian territory and at the gross violations of human rights and international humanitarian law, in particular, acts of extrajudicial killing, closures, collective punishments, the persistence in establishing settlements, arbitrary detentions, the besieging of Palestinian towns and villages, the shelling of Palestinian residential districts from warplanes, tanks and Israeli battleships, the conducting of incursions into towns and camps and the killing of men, women and children there as was the case lately in the camps of Jenin, Balata, Khan Younis, Rafah, Ramallah, Gaza, Nablus, al-Birah, al-Ama'ri, Jabaliya, Bethlehem, Dheisheh, Hay al-Daraj and Hay al-Zaitoun in the city of Gaza..."



You can read about it here on the UN's website.



d
AccidentalVeg is offline  
#7 Old 10-02-2004, 10:09 PM
Banned
 
Tame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 13,022
Yeah, if you actually had an more of an understanding of the history behind the conflict, you might be able to understand the Israeli view of the conflict. Something about the Palestinians and various Arab states vowing to eliminate them...eh, but why bother y'all with facts.



Odd so little condemnation about the acts that cause the Israeli retaliation...but I'm not surprised.
Tame is offline  
#8 Old 10-02-2004, 10:21 PM
Newbie
 
GhostUser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 0
Footage was just on the news and it made me sad. The words "World peace" have never meant so much to me. They are no longer empty words that I can just throw around. We need world peace. I wish so badly that we could have it.



We need to stop the killing. It doesn't matter who is right and who was wrong. We just need to sort our **** out.
GhostUser is offline  
#9 Old 10-02-2004, 10:28 PM
Veggie Regular
 
AccidentalVeg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,491
Facts from a cool BBC site devoted to the history of the conflict.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/h...ml/default.stm



Share and enjoy!



d
AccidentalVeg is offline  
#10 Old 10-03-2004, 01:24 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Neta558's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 548
Quote:
Originally Posted by AccidentalVeg View Post


Send some elder statesmen in and get that situation dealt with. No wall-building. No imprisonment of a people. Horrible.



What do you suggest? How would you deal with it?

The wall isn't the real problem, the conflict was there before there was a wall, and it'll be there after it'll be completed, that's just one more thing in the way. It's easy to point out the big things that are on the surface and say "lets get rid of those", but it won't solve the real conflict. In fact, that's what the IDF is trying to do, eliminate the currect problem while there's no dealing with the conflict itself. That's why it's not helpful in the long term.
Neta558 is offline  
#11 Old 10-03-2004, 09:29 AM
Veggie Regular
 
AccidentalVeg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,491
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neta558 View Post

What do you suggest? How would you deal with it?

The wall isn't the real problem, the conflict was there before there was a wall, and it'll be there after it'll be completed, that's just one more thing in the way. It's easy to point out the big things that are on the surface and say "lets get rid of those", but it won't solve the real conflict. In fact, that's what the IDF is trying to do, eliminate the currect problem while there's no dealing with the conflict itself. That's why it's not helpful in the long term.



I know it sounds impossible but the only solution I can think if is a unification or confederalization of the two states. Only by taking such a dramatic step could the two peoples live side by side in peace. Their shared interests, the religious significance of the Holy City and the unviable half measure of two states living side by side in continuous enmity for decades make any other solution look impossible.



I'm sure nobody agrees with me but I think it is the only solution. They have to learn to live together and share the land as one nation.



d
AccidentalVeg is offline  
#12 Old 10-03-2004, 12:44 PM
Veggie Regular
 
clickman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,017
Quote:
Originally Posted by AccidentalVeg View Post

I know it sounds impossible but the only solution I can think if is a unification or confederalization of the two states. Only by taking such a dramatic step could the two peoples live side by side in peace. Their shared interests, the religious significance of the Holy City and the unviable half measure of two states living side by side in continuous enmity for decades make any other solution look impossible.



I'm sure nobody agrees with me but I think it is the only solution. They have to learn to live together and share the land as one nation.



d



The Israelis would never agree with that. If that was to happen, Palestinians have much superior numbers, and the Israelis are afraid of democracy.
clickman is offline  
#13 Old 10-03-2004, 03:36 PM
Banned
 
Tame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 13,022
Quote:
Originally Posted by clickman View Post

The Israelis would never agree with that. If that was to happen, Palestinians have much superior numbers, and the Israelis are afraid of democracy.





The militant Palestinians would never agree to it either.



But hey, why miss the chance to absolve the suicide bombers who target schoolchildren, right Click?
Tame is offline  
#14 Old 10-03-2004, 04:07 PM
Veggie Regular
 
AccidentalVeg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,491
A bodycount: For those who need to know numbers to quantify that an atrocity is an atrocity for both sides in such a conflict. No one is winning in this war.



http://www.ict.org.il/casualties_project/stats_page.cfm



UPI's take on Kerry's purposefully slippery postion on the matter.



http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=...9-042549-2017r



Share and enjoy OR make snarky two-sentence comments and disappear in a puff of self-righteousness. Whatever suits you, dear readers...



d
AccidentalVeg is offline  
#15 Old 10-03-2004, 05:31 PM
Veggie Regular
 
clickman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,017
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tame View Post

The militant Palestinians would never agree to it either.



But hey, why miss the chance to absolve the suicide bombers who target schoolchildren, right Click?



Honestly, I think the fundies on the Palestinian side would love it. It makes it a hell of alot easier to get to Jews. But, the support they do have would crumble if the conflict was to end, and the amount of people, already small, who want to see every Jew dead would dwindle to next to nothing. (I'm talking in terms relative to the population)



I don't think we'll ever really see one state, I don't think it's a practical solution. They're two cultures with different sets of beliefs that have had nearly sixty years of exploitation by both sides. I think we can see two states in peaceful co-existence within my lifetime. The first step is to stop killing people and destroying peoples houses.
clickman is offline  
#16 Old 10-03-2004, 05:33 PM
Veggie Regular
 
clickman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,017
Quote:
Originally Posted by AccidentalVeg View Post

A bodycount: For those who need to know numbers to quantify that an atrocity is an atrocity for both sides in such a conflict. No one is winning in this war.



http://www.ict.org.il/casualties_project/stats_page.cfm



UPI's take on Kerry's purposefully slippery postion on the matter.



http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=...9-042549-2017r



Share and enjoy OR make snarky two-sentence comments and disappear in a puff of self-righteousness. Whatever suits you, dear readers...



d



The Democrats are under the Zionist/Israeli/whatever-you-want-to-call-them lobby just as much as the Republicans are. Both candidates for president are full of it and aren't hesitant to admit that they're going to cooperate with almost anything Israel wants.
clickman is offline  
#17 Old 10-04-2004, 02:31 PM
Ex-*****
 
Indian Summer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: England
Posts: 5,391
The Israeli ambassador to the United Nations, Dan Gillerman, has recently claimed that Hamas is using UN ambulances as a means of smuggling "arms and terrorists" through the Gaza Strip. To support this view, Israeli representatives intend to screen a short film with aerial photos taken from an unmanned reconnaissance plane. According to the ambassador, the footage shows a Quassam rocket being loaded into a UN ambulance.



(Somehow this reminds me of another multimedia show in the UN held by a certain foreign minister of the USA...) Anyway, the so-called Quassam rocket clearly appears to be an empty stretcher, which it would not be that strange to find in an ambulance. Read all about it at http://www.un.org/unrwa/news/release...4/hqg30-04.pdf.



However, the video still circulates at dozens of web sites that continue to spread the ambassador's allegations. For some reason the ambassador's sensational interpretation of the footage seems to survive any explanation given by the UN.



Meanwhile, (last time I checked) the body count on the Palestinian side since the last incursion was 74, including a 4-year old shot inside his home, and a 16 year old girl. On the Israeli side, two children were killed by rockets in Sderot.



It is so sad.

I no longer post here after VB was sold in 2012. (See my profile page for details.)
Indian Summer is offline  
#18 Old 10-04-2004, 06:08 PM
Newbie
 
TokenVegInMS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by AccidentalVeg View Post

A people who are virtually imprisoned have no rights and therefore no hope. Build a wall around them. Make them submit to curfews and random lockdowns, bombings and assasinations and they will get pretty desperate and they will do desperate things, as we have seen. It's not unusual.



I'm sorry, but what was the subject? ... Palestinian refugees or National Guardsmen?
TokenVegInMS is offline  
#19 Old 10-04-2004, 09:06 PM
Veggie Regular
 
AccidentalVeg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,491
Quote:
Originally Posted by TokenVegInMS View Post

I'm sorry, but what was the subject? ... Palestinian refugees or National Guardsmen?



The Puff of Self-Righteousness seems very popular this evening.

AccidentalVeg is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the VeggieBoards forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in


Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off