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-   -   "Debate"... loosely translated (https://www.veggieboards.com/forum/17-compost-heap/21728-debate-loosely-translated.html)

Dirty Martini 09-30-2004 06:08 PM

So much for lively debate... I just found out a few days ago that these debates have been scripted all along. So they're not debates, they're just long advertisements. Great. I like the comment about plastic democracy...



The bill moyers (pbs) transcript is long, but interesting. And a bit sad - and frustrating.



Quote:
MOYERS: Which brings me, David, to a book I read years ago that changed the way I see the world. The title is THE IMAGE and in it the historian Daniel Boorstin argued that so much is being staged and scripted in American life that we are losing touch with reality. He described it as the triumph of pseudo-events counterfeit happenings, fabrications, replacing what's real with illusions of truth.



I think of Daniel Boorstin every four years on the eve of the presidential debates. These debates have become exactly what he found so deeply troubling the packaging of politicians and politics to create a phony transcendence that simulates democracy while subverting it.



http://www.pbs.org/now/transcript/tr...t339_full.html



http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=4052162

GhostUser 09-30-2004 10:31 PM

The debate wasn't bad. I think more got said b/c it wasn't a free-for-all. They were allowed to confront each on when necessary. I was happy with it and it was better (read: more entertaining) then I hoped for.

revelsunrise 09-30-2004 10:39 PM

I nearly laughed my rear off every time Bush flat-out interrupted Kerry. I found it amusing. Oh, and I liked how they were dressed identically, down to the matching US flag pins. The only exception was the color of their ties. Hehe. Somebody should have worn a blue leisure suit...that would have made the whole thing more interesting.



Oh, and me and my roommate started playing a game of follow Kerry's hands to keep ourselves entertained.

delicious 09-30-2004 11:21 PM

I watched the debate. (Kerry won ) Now I just need to register...

Dirty Martini 10-01-2004 01:16 AM

Dude, had Kerry shown up in a blue leisure suit... that would have taken the cake. Well there is still hope for edwards.



I tell ya, if Edwards can talk in his debate about providing social programs & catering to families & children, all he has to do is smile & wink and he'll have 90% of the hetero-family-mom vote right there.

otomik 10-01-2004 05:06 AM

ooh, cheney versus edwards, that'll be like darth vader versus a ewok.

delicious 10-01-2004 08:13 AM

looks more like Luke Skywalker to me...only hotter.

LudwigB 10-01-2004 08:29 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by otomik View Post

ooh, cheney versus edwards, that'll be like darth vader versus a ewok.



Or a supernova versus a black hole. I can't think of two people with more diametrically opposite personalities. Edwards and Anti-Edwards. The Grinner and The Grumbler. They're debating on my university campus on Tuesday. Thanks to the whole "scripted" thing mentioned in the OP, students and employees aren't guaranteed admission...in fact, will almost certainly not get admission. A "very limited number" of seats were available by lottery. I didn't even try. But I'm interested in seeing how it turns out (same for the remaining Bush-Kerry debates). Massive protests are planned...should be a crazy tuesday.



As for the original post, I'm in complete agreement. Why not invite a panel to prepare debate questions of their own choosing? Not only would this be more "democratic," we'd get to see the more human (i.e., less prepared) side of the candidtates. Of coure, Bush is unprepared all the time, but let's not beat a dead horse...

SallyK 10-01-2004 08:29 AM

I thought that Bush had some pretty funny facial expressions and body language. Did anyone notice? I thought he was going to have a temper tantrum like my two year old...

Annie 10-01-2004 08:57 AM

You couldn't leave that debate without know EXACTLY where Bush stood on EVERYTHING.



Kerry, on the other hand, double talked so much.... He has a shady way of leaving himself room to slither out of what he said the day before (read: flip flop). I wondered how it did it. Now I know...slick forked tongue.

Cherry Head 10-01-2004 08:57 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by revelsunrise View Post

I nearly laughed my rear off every time Bush flat-out interrupted Kerry. I found it amusing. Oh, and I liked how they were dressed identically, down to the matching US flag pins. The only exception was the color of their ties. Hehe. Somebody should have worn a blue leisure suit...that would have made the whole thing more interesting.



Oh, and me and my roommate started playing a game of follow Kerry's hands to keep ourselves entertained.

I know! HAH HAH!!



Quote:
Originally Posted by SallyK View Post

I thought that Bush had some pretty funny facial expressions and body language. Did anyone notice? I thought he was going to have a temper tantrum like my two year old...



Yeah, really. But I keep myself entertained by Bush's eyebrows. They move a lot.



Yep, this is my stance on politics, eyebrows and hands. No, jk. But I thought that the debate was really redundant. It put me to sleep, seriously. But I actually found myself agreeing with Bush on one small thing, it amazed me (that I agreed with him) and now I can't remember what it was...I think it was about...the families, and how...oh, I forget.

DannyTanner 10-01-2004 09:03 AM

Kerry isn't as much of a flip flopper as Bush would lead you to believe. Remember that most bills are altered each time they try to get passed.





Also, I forget who said it, but they said it good "This isn't as much of a debate as it is a chance to get a few more 30 second sound bites for the media".

colorful 10-01-2004 09:51 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by revelsunrise View Post

Oh, and me and my roommate started playing a game of follow Kerry's hands to keep ourselves entertained.



lol...my husband and I were commenting that it looked like he was doing some form of sign language! For the rest of the night, everytime my husband talked to me, he would do these ridiculous hand motions!



This was the first presidential debate I ever actually watched. I did pick up a book halfway through but I listened with one ear. The debate didn't really change how I feel about the candidates, just confirmed that my vote will go for John Kerry (or Jim Carrey...did y'all watch Will & Grace last night? That was hilarious!)

Gothic Sponge 10-01-2004 11:22 AM

Kerry kicked Butt!

GhostUser 10-01-2004 11:34 AM

I missed the debates. So, who lied the best (er, won, I mean)?







The Rev

BadrashClothing 10-01-2004 11:58 AM

Bush did make many funny faces... The first time they were zooming in on Kerry talking then popped bush's face to the right of him I busted out laughing... he such a goomba.



Edwards VS Cheney? That would be awesome.



Kerry is not a flip flop. I'm getting so sick of that. The Republicons just think that if they say it enough and that we be dum 'Mericans we'l beleev em' evntually.





I just wish it was Edwards Pres and Kerry Vp (or someone other than kerry).

carried 10-01-2004 12:04 PM

When they first came out and shook hands I thought of Rocky 4 when the russian says "I must break you"

Cissy 10-01-2004 01:02 PM

Bush made some great faces. It reminded me of my dog Apollo, only not as cute.



Bush seemed incredibly nervous during the entire thing. And Kerry is definitely a much better speaker, no question about it.

SallyK 10-01-2004 01:04 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by carried View Post

When they first came out and shook hands I thought of Rocky 4 when the russian says "I must break you"

OMG...

Thalia 10-01-2004 02:20 PM

Bush (in taunted-child-on-the-playground voice)
Quote:
Of course I know Osama bin Laden attacked us. I know that.

Nyuh uh.

Tame 10-01-2004 02:23 PM

Kerry helped himself last night. I'm not sure how much (my guess is a small bump in the next two polls.) Bush was on the defensive too much, and I expect he will come out swinging next time.

Kerry as a speaker didn't impress me much.

Virtue23 10-01-2004 02:39 PM

I actually found Bush quite amusing in the debate. He looked like he was ready to either start swinging or start pouting like a child, like someone already said . LOL . Still Kerry seems way too wishy-washy to me. Way too passive-aggressive. My two cents.

otomik 10-01-2004 02:43 PM

should have had a skit portion like in Napoleon Dynamite.

vs.

Jes 10-01-2004 03:42 PM

I thought that Bush demonstrated a vague grasp of the issues similar to that of a fourteen year old, just finishing up her 8th grade American History course.

Dirty Martini 10-01-2004 04:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BadrashClothing View Post

Edwards VS Cheney? That would be awesome.



Well then tune in October 5th, because that is when the VP debate takes place.




rainbowmoon 10-01-2004 04:49 PM

I really did think Bush kicked Kerry's ass at the VERY beginning of the debate, but after awhile his poor speaking skills and lack of knowledge caught up with him and he wound up looking like a donkey.

Red 10-01-2004 08:39 PM

It was funny how Kerry bashed Bush for going it alone in Iraq, then bashed Bush for not going it alone against North Korea.



http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english...ent_379450.htm

DannyTanner 10-02-2004 09:52 AM

its funny how bush is taking out troops from N. Korea, a far more dangerous nation, to go to Iraq and help clean up this mess.



"America is safer". If you believe that you're fooling yourself.

Thalia 10-02-2004 10:22 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red View Post

It was funny how Kerry bashed Bush for going it alone in Iraq, then bashed Bush for not going it alone against North Korea.



http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english...ent_379450.htm

First, Kerry criticized Bush for going it alone into war.

Second, he criticized Bush for not 'going it' at all on N Korea for two years.

Last, Kerry also said he wanted both bilateral and multilateral talks in N. Korea.



I don't claim to know the answer on which is better, but I wanted to clarify that.



Quote:
KERRY:...Colin Powell, our secretary of state, announced one day that we were going to continue the dialog of working with the North Koreans. The president reversed it publicly while the president of South Korea was here.



And the president of South Korea went back to South Korea bewildered and embarrassed because it went against his policy. And for two years, this administration didn't talk at all to North Korea...



LEHRER: I want to make sure but in this one minute, I want to make sure that we understand -- the people watching understand the differences between the two of you on this.



You want to continue the multinational talks, correct?



BUSH: Right.



LEHRER: And you're willing to do it ...



KERRY: Both. I want bilateral talks which put all of the issues, from the armistice of 1952, the economic issues, the human rights issues, the artillery disposal issues, the DMZ (the Demilitarized Zone between North and South Korea) issues and the nuclear issues on the table.



LEHRER: And you're opposed to that. Right?



BUSH: The minute we have bilateral talks, the six-party talks will unwind...


Red 10-02-2004 11:31 AM

We (the U.S.) tried that in the 90's. The Clinton Administration went at it bi-laterally. And so here we are today - a North Korea with a nuclear arms program and the ability to deliver the warheads.


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