Trump gets Republican nomination - Page 2 - VeggieBoards
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#31 Old 05-28-2016, 03:12 PM
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Wow, we got a lot of Trump haters on here lol...

Being part of a minority in this country, you might think that it's an easy and obvious choice who to vote for, but as much as I dislike bigotry, I can't help but respect the fact that Trump is a man who stands by what he wants. Trump is an unpragmatic simpleton in many things, but he's also candid and brutal in his honesty and I appreciate that.

When Obama visited Saudi Arabia, he was greeted by a governor. The President of the United States visits Saudi Arabia and is greeted by a governor, NOT the crown prince or the king, but some governor. To make it worse, Obama kissed a** the entire time actively trying to placate the Saudi king. That's a slap on the face for us because we are starting to be perceived as weak (which is absolutely terrible on the global stage). You've got to remember that being a superpower is more than just having lots of weapons or a huge army. At the risk of sounding Machiavellian, the perception of power is often more influential than the power itself. If I recall correctly, something similar happened to Obama in China too. This is not good for our image.

Hell, if I was the President and that happened to me, I would have turned around, gotten back on the plane and left. When Trump said the exact same thing, I felt... respect.

I'm not saying that I agree with Trump or that I support him, but I try to weigh all aspects of a person before riling on them. Who will I vote for?... I dunno.

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It's generally a good idea to fact check before chiming in with agreement (especially when it comes to things that Trump says): https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...out-precedent/

People are admirable for saying what they think only to the extent the underlying thoughts are admirable.
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#32 Old 05-28-2016, 03:51 PM
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That's a pretty passive aggressive statement, don't you think?
Just speaking from past VB experience.
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#33 Old 05-28-2016, 03:52 PM
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And I think it was a pretty clear warning, not passive aggressive IMO.
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#34 Old 05-29-2016, 11:17 AM
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Just speaking from past VB experience.
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#35 Old 05-29-2016, 11:18 AM
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It's generally a good idea to fact check before chiming in with agreement (especially when it comes to things that Trump says): https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...out-precedent/

People are admirable for saying what they think only to the extent the underlying thoughts are admirable.
The WP is hardly a source of impartial information as is Fox News on the other end. That said, U.S. - S.A. relations have been strained for a number of reasons (oil market, Iran nuclear deal, Syria, 9/11 bill etc). Like you, I don't give Trump much credit in his knowledge of international relations and foreign policy. Regardless, with or without precedent, that does not make S.A.'s actions acceptable. S.A. warning of an economic fallout in the U.S. (i.e., S.A.'s control over the U.S.) over potential S.A. involvement in 9/11 is itself is an indicator of the weakening perception of the U.S. as a power. Of course, there have been incidents before, like the Reagan visit in 1985 (which the WP does not fully cover, by the way; the bitburg controversy -- and it still doesn't make Kohl's actions acceptable), but other than strained relations, the sense of power was there. The 1972 trip to China was terrible, and it had further contributed to China becoming rather arrogant and boastful despite their economy being intricately tied to ours. I don't know how much you've read about power and war psychology, but perception is paramount. Trump, in his idiosyncrasy, inherently understands that far more than the other candidates. Again, I don't agree with all of Trump's actions or statements, but I am highlighting a side to him that must be addressed thoroughly.
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#36 Old 05-29-2016, 08:21 PM
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Do you have a link? The things I read didn't mention that.
I was watching real-time coverage on MSNBC. The reporters mentioned the difference between the afternoon and evening crowds. A few days later Trump held a rally in San Diego that showed a similar pattern: loud but peaceful protest before the rally, mayhem after. One notable difference is that most of the organizers wrap up "official" protest outside while the rally is going on inside. The bulk of the conflict happens after the rally.

The locations Trump holds his rallies are not accidentally in high tension areas. He actually benefits from conflict at his rallys. It's like Skokie in the late 70s.
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#37 Old 05-29-2016, 09:21 PM
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The WP is hardly a source of impartial information
Yeah, did you see where they claimed the FBI had 147 agents working on the Clinton emails - more than worked on the Oklahoma City bombing? That sounded like a bit of an exaggeration to other news organizations, so they (NBC specifically) reached out to their FBI sources and came up with a different number. Around 12.

WP has corrected or retracted several stories that feed into various Hillary Clinton conspiracy fables. Certainly anything they print should be looked at critically to examine the factual basis for the claims made, but declaring anything they print false out of hand because of imaginary or even real bias seems unwise. Impeach facts, not sources.

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#38 Old 05-29-2016, 11:13 PM
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Ray of light? He was sentenced to prison for writing something the government didn't like? Kind of scary. They might not like what you have to say in the future, and what a precedent has been set!

Freedom of speech, no matter how repugnant that speech, is a cornerstone of our rights in the US.
Well, to put things more into perspective, our country is very small and was among the first to be occupied by the Germans in 1940 and they were not really nice to the population. Lots of random arrests, executions and daily propaganda. So when the war was finally over and the country was free again, there was a law made concerning something which might be best translated to "incitement to hate and violence", which allows the state to incriminate people coming up with too much fascist propaganda. ( I say "too much", a normal dose just gets laughed at, since there are about 47% of foreigners living and working here).

But I agree with you that such a law could be used for the wrong means and given the current demographic situation, it could be considered as outdated. And yes, everyone should be entitled to his opinion without fear of legal consequences and be subject to being laughed at for it
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#39 Old 05-30-2016, 05:48 AM
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Yeah, did you see where they claimed the FBI had 147 agents working on the Clinton emails - more than worked on the Oklahoma City bombing? That sounded like a bit of an exaggeration to other news organizations, so they (NBC specifically) reached out to their FBI sources and came up with a different number. Around 12.

WP has corrected or retracted several stories that feed into various Hillary Clinton conspiracy fables. Certainly anything they print should be looked at critically to examine the factual basis for the claims made, but declaring anything they print false out of hand because of imaginary or even real bias seems unwise. Impeach facts, not sources.
I hadn't, but clearly the WP hasn't heard of Hearst or Pulitzer. Tactics that would once work on the American public can no longer work as easily with the advent of information technology. It must be convenient to contrive tales to hyperbolize virtues or faults, merely to blame an editor or journalist when a fallout occurs.
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#40 Old 05-30-2016, 05:38 PM
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http://www.rightwingwatch.org/conten...nspiracy-guide

58 conspiracies Trump has helped spread.

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#41 Old 05-30-2016, 05:39 PM
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I can't really argue with someone who finds an equivalency in the reporting of facts as between the WP and Trump.

Likewise, I'm at a loss when someone sees braggadocio and chest thumping by those who seek to send other people's children out to fight and die as a positive trait.
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#42 Old 05-30-2016, 07:26 PM
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Ignoring the ad hominems, it is apparent from the rhetoric that the WP leans far left; thus it is prudent for the reader to recognize partisanship and act to obtain a balanced view. Therefore it is inane to link a half-baked article and expect complete consensus.

Regardless, I agree, how dare I be a mixed-race minority and still support Trump, despite his numerous lies and intolerance!! How dare I do such a thing! /sarcasm
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#43 Old 05-31-2016, 05:09 PM
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Ignoring the ad hominems, it is apparent from the rhetoric that the WP leans far left; thus it is prudent for the reader to recognize partisanship and act to obtain a balanced view. Therefore it is inane to link a half-baked article and expect complete consensus.

Regardless, I agree, how dare I be a mixed-race minority and still support Trump, despite his numerous lies and intolerance!! How dare I do such a thing! /sarcasm
A. I'm not expecting consensus. I linked to an article that provides examples of some of the occasions in which a POTUS was NOT met at the airport by a head of state. I did this to counter your assertion (echoing Trump's) that this is unprecedented. Unless you are asserting that the WP lied about what it found, then your claims about the WP's accuracy and/or bias are totally irrelevant.

B. Until this post of yours stating that you are a "mixed-race minority", I had no knowledge of (nor had I given any thought to) your race, national origin, sex, gender, religion, etc.

C. "Daring" has nothing to do with supporting a political candidate in this country.

D. I don't think that anything I said to you qualifies as "ad hominem." You might want to double check the definition.
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#44 Old 05-31-2016, 05:10 PM
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Trump and his university–which operated from 2005 through 2010, when it was shut down as the San Diego suits and multiple state attorneys general investigations were beginning–lured approximately 7,000 consumers into paying $1,495 to $34,995 for courses where, as the promotional material put it, Donald Trump’s “handpicked instructors” would teach them Trump’s “insider success secrets” of how to invest in real estate.

The records indicate, for example, that Trump University collected approximately $40 million from its students–who included veterans, retired police officers and teachers–and that Trump personally received approximately $5 million of it, despite his claim, repeated in our interview, that he started Trump University as a charitable venture.
http://time.com/4101290/what-the-leg.../?iid=sr-link1


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The playbook also outlines a strategy for targeting people with the most pressing problems, presumably financial. It says, “Urgency is proportional to pain. Problems are like health. The more a problem hurts now, the more the need for a solution now. And the more it hurts, the more they’ll be prepared to pay for a speedy solution. It’s got to hurt enough!” On a later page, it offers two examples of personal problems potential Trump University buyers may be experiencing: “Are they a single parent of three children that may need money for food? Or are they a middle-aged commuter that is tired of traveling for 2 hours for work each day?”
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/poli...icle-1.2656262

http://time.com/4353116/trump-univer.../?xid=homepage

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#45 Old 05-31-2016, 05:28 PM
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At least he's making one friend internationally. Snort.

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A North Korean state media outlet has praised Donald Trump as a “wise politician” and “far-sighted candidate” who can reunify the Korean peninsula.

The DPRK Today editorial welcomed the presumptive Republican nominee’s willingness to talk to North Korean leader Kim Jong Un, NKNews.org reports, saying Trump could help bring about an end to the isolated country’s “Yankee go home” policy of hostility with the U.S.

“In my personal opinion, there are many positive aspects to the Trump’s ‘inflammatory policies’” Han Yong Mook, who describes himself as a Chinese North Korean scholar, wrote in the editorial. “Trump said ‘he will not get involved in the war between the South and the North,’ isn’t this fortunate from North Koreans’ perspective?”

The editorial also urged Americans to not vote for the “dull Hillary” Clinton.

On May 23, the North Korean ambassador to the United Nations in Geneva dismissed Trump’s offer to meet Kim Jong Un as “a kind of a propaganda or advertisement.”
http://time.com/4352135/north-korea-.../?xid=homepage
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#46 Old 05-31-2016, 05:32 PM
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Under pressure to account for money he claimed to raise for veterans, an irritated Donald Trump lambasted the news media Tuesday for pressing the issue and listed charities he said have now received millions of dollars from a fundraiser he held in January.

Phone calls to all 41 of the groups by The Associated Press brought more than two-dozen responses Tuesday. About half reported checks from Trump were given within the past week, typically dated May 24, the day The Washington Post published a story questioning whether he had distributed all of the money.

Trump, the presumptive Republican presidential nominee, told reporters at a testy news conference in New York that the fundraiser, held at the same time as a Fox News GOP debate he was boycotting, raised $5.6 million. He previously had declined to disclose which charities had received the funds, and his campaign has gone back and forth about how much was raised.
http://time.com/4353025/donald-trump.../?xid=homepage

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...ald_trump.html

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#47 Old 05-31-2016, 05:40 PM
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The last time information from Donald Trump’s income-tax returns was made public, the bottom line was striking: He had paid the federal government $0 in income taxes.

The disclosure, in a 1981 report by New Jersey gambling regulators, revealed that the wealthy Manhattan investor had for at least two years in the late 1970s taken advantage of a tax-code provision popular with developers that allowed him to report negative income.

Today, as the presumptive Republican presidential nominee, Trump regularly denounces corporate executives for using loopholes and “false deductions” to “get away with murder” when it comes to avoiding taxes.

“They make a fortune. They pay no tax,” Trump said last year on CBS. “It’s ridiculous, okay?”

Trump, who said last week on ABC that his tax rate is “none of your business,” would be the first major-party nominee in 40 years to not release his returns.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...b45_story.html
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#48 Old 05-31-2016, 05:54 PM
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A. I'm not expecting consensus. I linked to an article that provides examples of some of the occasions in which a POTUS was NOT met at the airport by a head of state. I did this to counter your assertion (echoing Trump's) that this is unprecedented. Unless you are asserting that the WP lied about what it found, then your claims about the WP's accuracy and/or bias are totally irrelevant.
Beautiful Joe, you countered an assertion that simply was not made. I suggest that you re-read my initial post; I stated how Obama was met by a governor and how this affects the perception of power, and echoed what Trump would have done. I made no claims as to whether it was unprecedented or not. I said that it was weakening the perception of U.S. as a power; whatever happened on previous POTUS visits is irrelevant.

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B. Until this post of yours stating that you are a "mixed-race minority", I had no knowledge of (nor had I given any thought to) your race, national origin, sex, gender, religion, etc.

C. "Daring" has nothing to do with supporting a political candidate in this country.
That wasn't the point of the sarcasm. Just forget it.

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D. I don't think that anything I said to you qualifies as "ad hominem." You might want to double check the definition.
Ad hominems:

> "I can't really argue with someone who ..."
Why not counter the reply than to dismiss me on my character and/or beliefs? My reply had nothing to do with the equivalency of the WP and Trump -- again, I am talking about the perception of power and its importance, and how Trump understands that.

> "Likewise, I'm at a loss when someone ... as a positive trait."
Again, this is nothing to do with my beliefs, nor have I ever stated that I see "braggadocio and chest thumping by those who seek to send other people's children out to fight and die" as a positive trait. You are grasping at straws.

Perhaps you should learn to read carefully.
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#49 Old 05-31-2016, 06:03 PM
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A pretty amusing, but long, read, since he contradicts himself so frequently:

http://www.politico.com/magazine/sto...ictions-213869
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#50 Old 05-31-2016, 07:18 PM
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At what point were attention seeking celebrities encouraged to lead any civilised nation? I'm astounded there is nothing in law to say that those who run for office should be aptly qualified and with political experience under their belt. The idea that anybody can be President is a noble one on paper, in reality? It's becoming quite clear that it's a recipe for disaster. I sincerely hope (as a non-American) Trump is rejected by the American people, otherwise I fear the precedent his election will set for America in the coming decades, as well as the rest of the world. I don't want to see politics and the most important job vacancy in the land become a reality TV show about personalities rather than policies.
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#51 Old 05-31-2016, 08:06 PM
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Thoughts on Gary Johnson?
I can see him diverting votes from both sides, I can't decide who has more to lose with him in the race.
?
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#52 Old 05-31-2016, 09:29 PM
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Thoughts on Gary Johnson?
I wouldn't vote for him, but he seems like someone who's actually saying something worth listening to. In general the whole 'fiscally conservative/socially liberal' thing looks great on paper but doesn't work out in practice, though. His effect on the other parties will probably be a wash. I'm a little nervous about him getting the 15% in polls that would get him in the presidential debates. If it was just Hillary and Trump the one-on-one back and forth would expose his deficiencies more than if he has a third person there to give him a breather.

-----------

As I'm typing this I'm watching a rerun of Colbert. Bill O'Reilly is the guest and they're talking about potential Trump VP picks. O'Reilly suggested Susannah Martiniz. Heh. A few days ago Trump attacked her basically unprovoked (she declined to attend a Trump event and he went off on her - he's so thin skinned!) So I'm guessing that'd be a NO from her now.

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#53 Old 05-31-2016, 11:25 PM
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I suspect Trump will choose Marco Rubio from Florida for his VP.
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#54 Old 06-01-2016, 08:50 AM
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Wow, we got a lot of Drumpf haters on here lol...

Being part of a minority in this country, you might think that it's an easy and obvious choice who to vote for, but as much as I dislike bigotry, I can't help but respect the fact that Drumpf is a man who stands by what he wants. Drumpf is an unpragmatic simpleton in many things, but he's also candid and brutal in his honesty and I appreciate that.

When Obama visited Saudi Arabia, he was greeted by a governor. The President of the United States visits Saudi Arabia and is greeted by a governor, NOT the crown prince or the king, but some governor. To make it worse, Obama kissed a** the entire time actively trying to placate the Saudi king. That's a slap on the face for us because we are starting to be perceived as weak (which is absolutely terrible on the global stage). You've got to remember that being a superpower is more than just having lots of weapons or a huge army. At the risk of sounding Machiavellian, the perception of power is often more influential than the power itself. If I recall correctly, something similar happened to Obama in China too. This is not good for our image.

Hell, if I was the President and that happened to me, I would have turned around, gotten back on the plane and left. When Drumpf said the exact same thing, I felt... respect.

I'm not saying that I agree with Drumpf or that I support him, but I try to weigh all aspects of a person before riling on them. Who will I vote for?... I dunno.

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Trump lies through his teeth, not one respectful thing has come out of his mouth. Just the other day he went off on a reporter for calling him out on his lies, what will he do when he is president, jail reporters? and Obama is pretty much respected around the world. He has actually helped the image of America. Saudi Arabia is a totalitarian theocracy. But if Obama turned and went on the plane we would have lost one of strategic allies in the region. The way Trump treats world leaders we will not have any allies left. Most other countries are laughing at us that we will even consider Trump as a nominee. I can not believe this man may be our next president, he is the absolute worst thing to happen here. I'm terrified that he has a chance to be our president.
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#55 Old 06-01-2016, 09:37 AM
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Trump, Drumpf or John Miler?
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#56 Old 06-01-2016, 11:08 PM
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Trump, Drumpf or John Miler?
I'm voting for my cat. He makes the most sense...
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#57 Old 06-02-2016, 03:19 PM
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Trump lies through his teeth, not one respectful thing has come out of his mouth. Just the other day he went off on a reporter for calling him out on his lies, what will he do when he is president, jail reporters? and Obama is pretty much respected around the world. He has actually helped the image of America. Saudi Arabia is a totalitarian theocracy. But if Obama turned and went on the plane we would have lost one of strategic allies in the region. The way Trump treats world leaders we will not have any allies left. Most other countries are laughing at us that we will even consider Trump as a nominee. I can not believe this man may be our next president, he is the absolute worst thing to happen here. I'm terrified that he has a chance to be our president.
The cynic in me asks, what politician hasn't lied?

Pretty naive. Without delving too deeply into IR theory (do read about perception), but such a claim is not only just your opinion but also quite improbable and mere fear mongering. Without getting into a debate over realist / liberalist / constructivist views on this subject matter, it is certainly possible to maintain our "alliance" with present-day S.A. while asserting U.S. power over the region.

Without getting into rational deterrence theory, getting back on the plane and walking away from the meeting temporarily might provoke a risk-acceptant response, but it is often transient and ephemeral given the dependence S.A. has on the U.S., and a show of power that is IMHO important.
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#58 Old 06-03-2016, 01:34 PM
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such a claim is not only just your opinion but also quite improbable
An opinion it may be, but one informed by actual things that actually happened and one supported by bipartisan groups whose entire purpose is to call public figures on misrepresentations, errors, and outright lies.

The most concerning to me are the lies on things that absolutely DO NOT MATTER! The 'John Miller' incident is a prime example. In the late 90s (I think it was) Trump called a journalist working on a celebrity puff-piece about him and pretended to be his own publicist, using the name John Miller. The journalist thought it was weird, it became a minor news event of the type you'd read in People or Entertainment Weekly or whatever. Ultimately Trump 'fessed up, it was him, but he brushed it off as a joke gone bad. Fair enough. Still a little weird, creepy maybe, but nothing malicious. Forward to a few weeks ago. Someone digs up the original story, he gets asked about it on Good Morning America AFAIR, and DENIES THE STORY. Listening to the tape, he says 'John Miller' doesn't even sound like him. Keep in mind here, he has previously admitted to pretending to be 'John Miller' The initial John Miller story in itself is not horribly important. There are plenty of plausibly acceptable reasons a person just attaining celebrity status might want to be very hands-on with their PR. Pretending to be a fake PR person comes off a little weird, but not too huge a deal overall. So why the heck lie about it?

A pathological lier will lie because they feel compelled to. They lie even when they know you know they are lieing. Trump has been called a pathological lier. The John Miller story shows why.

----------------------------

Just an aside about lies: Many people who say things that are not true are not lying. To tell a lie you have to know the truth but say something untrue instead. It's different than 'spin', which is putting the best face on a topic. All politicians spin things - heck, all people do. Liers are actually fairly uncommon.
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#59 Old 06-03-2016, 03:16 PM
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An opinion it may be, but one informed by actual things that actually happened and one supported by bipartisan groups whose entire purpose is to call public figures on misrepresentations, errors, and outright lies.
Huh? What are you talking about? The opinion I was referring to was this:

Quote:
But if Obama turned and went on the plane we would have lost one of strategic allies in the region. The way Trump treats world leaders we will not have any allies left.
^ Which is not only just his/her opinion but quite improbable and mere fear mongering.

I was always in concensus with you about Trump's history of lying. The guy cares incessantly about his reputation. Do you remember the day Trump sued someone for calling him a mere "millionaire?"

Regardless, I posed the question, what politician hasn't lied? I am not referring to an unaware liar (aka ignorance) or putting a spin on things, I mean straight up lying.

Without even bringing up Benghazi or the emails, Hillary has lied about insignificant things like her grandiose story about how all of her grandparents are immigrants (when only one grandparent was -- that too from London), or lying about the origins of her own name.

Now, Trump cares a ton about his reputation (but shame that he'll lie to protect it, ironically), but one thing he never lets anyone do is step on him, and that I immensely respect. He is extremely competitive, industrious, and enthusiastic about his endeavors -- his billionaire status is case in point. These traits are necessary to be a great leader (and a great nation). Nobody is perfect.
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#60 Old 06-03-2016, 03:30 PM
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I find it funny how so many people love Trump because he speaks his mind. Yeah, he speaks whatever his mind is thinking at that particular moment. He also says whatever he needs to for his voters and the guy lies about everything. He will literally say anything and does not give a ****. I think it is so ironic that a lot of people could not identify with Mitt Romney because he was wealthy and for some reason blue collar workers like Trump and think he is looking out for them. I don't think Trump became a Billionaire just for being good at Real Estate. I am sure he did whatever he had to do and took advantage of a lot of people on the way and was probably very deceptive his entire career. I think most politicians are out for their own self interests so I expect a lot of them to be less than perfect. The thing about Trump that really scares me is his ego which could get us in a war or at the very least cause major issues with many countries.
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